going from floorstanders to small active speakers

[Broner]

After having enjoyed my DC6T’s in combination with a NAD C356BEE for a year, it’s time for a change . I (and especially my girlfriend) just find that the floorstanders takes up too much space (also visually) and I am therefore thinking about going for little active speakers in combination with a sonos system. I use Spotify for about 100% of all the music I listen to.

I’m thinking about going for the Nubert Nupro A-300 or even possibly the AVI ADM9’s, though those AVI’s really are a little bit too expensive for me. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should think about with this setup? Does anyone have a preference for either one of the speakers?

 

[skippy]

Haven't actually heard either of them, but I recently had a listen to Adam F7's and Focal Cms 50/65 and they were all good. I didn't get chance to listen to the Adam A7x, but there have been a few that say they're good.

Best thing to do is go to a music store and do side by side listening if possible, some may let you have a home demo.

When I was researching mine I found one person hated them, one person loved them , better off making your own mind up...

 

[laughing boy]

If ADM9s are a trifle pricey, consider the DM5s They are tiny and will work well with the Sonos. You can sneak a sub into the room later if your taste in music requires it.

Small print. Other actives are available but I am very happy with my DM5s. They are diffuclt to audition because thay are sold on line but it is possible to arrange one at a dealer in Birmingham I think and also at the factory in Gloucestershire.

 

[plastic penguin]

After having enjoyed my DC6T’s in combination with a NAD C356BEE for a year, it’s time for a change . I (and especially my girlfriend) just find that the floorstanders takes up too much space (also visually) and I am therefore thinking about going for little active speakers in combination with a sonos system. I use Spotify for about 100% of all the music I listen to.

I’m thinking about going for the Nubert Nupro A-300 or even possibly the AVI ADM9’s, though those AVI’s really are a little bit too expensive for me. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should think about with this setup? Does anyone have a preference for either one of the speakers?

Can't comment on actives directly, but you do have a conundrum. The problem is whether you can live with the inevitable lack of bass extension? This is something I grampled with for ages, eventally settling on a large standmounter.

If you do decide on small actives then perhaps budget for a sub, this'll make up for the slight shortfall.

 

[BigH]

Have a look for some used ADM9s they do come sometimes on ebay or jthe AVI website otherwise the DM5s are an option although the bass will be less.

 

[abacus]

You will normally get deeper bass out of active small speakers then passive small speakers due to the way the amplification is matched to the drive units, however only you can decide if there is enough bass for you.

Don’t forget each active speaker needs a mains cable as well as quality low level connection cables, so aesthetically they may not look as good, not forgetting the inconvenience in setup.

If aesthetics are not a major issue, then pop down to your local music store as they will have a much greater selection of speaker’s available at all budget and size levels. (Pro actives will also normally be cheaper as they do not have to design them to be domestically harmonious)

Hope this helps

Bill

 

[plastic penguin]

You will normally get deeper bass out of active small speakers then passive small speakers due to the way the amplification is matched to the drive units, however only you can decide if there is enough bass for you.

That may well be true, but somehow I don't think even the best actives can defy physics.

 

[davedotco]

After having enjoyed my DC6T’s in combination with a NAD C356BEE for a year, it’s time for a change . I (and especially my girlfriend) just find that the floorstanders takes up too much space (also visually) and I am therefore thinking about going for little active speakers in combination with a sonos system. I use Spotify for about 100% of all the music I listen to.

I’m thinking about going for the Nubert Nupro A-300 or even possibly the AVI ADM9’s, though those AVI’s really are a little bit too expensive for me. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should think about with this setup? Does anyone have a preference for either one of the speakers?

Hi Broner, certainly is. Time for a new woman.......!

Seriously though, the sound issue comes down to the bass, the kind of music you play and your expectations of bass response, only you can work this out. In this respect bigger is almost certainly better.

Your choice will, very largely, be governed by what is available in your particular marketplace, unless you are prepared to buy blind. You have suggested two models that allow you to take an unattenuated digital ouput from your Sonos and control everything from the speakers (inbuilt pre-amp).

The alternate is to use an inexpensive outboard dac which gives you the option of a whole raft of pro-monitor style actives, check out Andrew Everard's review of the Focam CM50, in the active speaker spread.

 

[EvPa]

The problem is whether you can live with the inevitable lack of bass extension? This is something I grampled with for ages, eventally settling on a large standmounter.

The nuPro A-300 mentionned by Broner certainly do not lack in the bass department.

At their pricepoint (he said that the AVIs are a bit too expensive), they are also pretty hard to beat features/price-wise (unless you get a good deal on second-hand kit).

 

[Broner]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. To get something out of the way: yes I can live with less bass, but I would be happy to keep some bass. The main thing that I would be looking for in the new speakers would be an improved clarity.

With respect to the Nubert Nupro A-300, all the reviews have been extremely positive about this aspect, but unfortunately I cannot try them (which imo would be less of a problem than with separates as there is no issue of finding out whether the components ‘match’ with each other, insofar as that could be an issue.

Please note that I live in Belgium, so auditioning the AVI speakers would be extremely cumbersome.

I will also pop in at the local hifi-store, but even after an audition I think I would still wonder how those Nuberts or AVI’s would sound, but perhaps I would fall in love right away with what they offer me…. Who can tell?

O yeah, I will not be buying a sub. It's just not going to happen

@Dave: the GF is staying. I don’t think I can get a better one.

 

[BigH]

There is an AVI dealer in Holland if thats any use.

 

[laughing boy]

It is worth addressing the bass issue in all proper active speakers. That means those which have their speakers directly coupled to their own amplifier without any crossover component in the way. The tweeter will be the same. Some "active " speakers have a single amplifier within and a conventional crossover and they do not have the following advantages.

1. The absence of speaker cable, well OK, a few Metres verses a few Centimetres and series inductor, many metres of thin wire, much thinner than your average speaker cable, gives the amplifier a superior grip on the bass speaker. This makes the energy transfer more accurate and significantly reduces the cone overshooting and oscillating effectively out of control. This is what we have come to expect to hear and like in passive speakers, it ain't accurate bass though. A few favourite tracks will show that is dangerous for some, thnere is no going back!

2. The amplifier module, done right, will match the needs of the speaker it drives without having to box swap and always be wondering what if? I speak for myself here.

When choosing your speakers, make sure they do not need to be turned on and off, there are new laws coming into force in the UK which have encouraged manufactures to get the speakers to turn themselves off after a period of inactivity and come on again with the music. This gets around the tedious switching on and off routine which is more wearysome than having two leads to each speaker.

I have been through the process of swapping kit around, some of it fine stuff too and enjoyed the process but now I just want to listen to the music which is where most wives and girlfriends start from and this addresses the OP's question.

A previous poster is right when saying you can't beat the laws of physics but the active approach sidesteps the effects of Ohm's Law neatly. Since Broner is in Belgium, it is unlikely he will choose the little DM5's since an audition is unlikely but all proper (see above) actives will display accurate bass to their specified limit.

Happy shopping!

 

[Broner]

I was checking out several of the suggestions but I noticed that not all of them have digital inputs, while I was planning to connect both my tv and the Sonos digitally to the speakers, nor is it always possible to connect both the tv and the Sonos at the same time. The Avi ADM9 and the Nupro A-300 are the positive exceptions.

After thinking about it for a bit, the AVI ADM9RS is too expensive, but I did see the ADM9T on offer for 1195 euro’s. The location of the company in the Netherlands is actually close to where my parents live, so I might squeeze in a little visit the next time I go there, and while I'm there I might also give the DM5's a try.

 

[davedotco]

@Dave: the GF is staying. I don’t think I can get a better one.

Have you thought about increasing your budget.......

You have, naturally enough come up against the biggest problem that prospective active speaker buyers come up against, the difficulty in getting meaningful demonstrations. At present there seems to be no obvious way round it.

I am fairly lucky, I have friends who work in a locan music/home studio shop and also at London's biggest 'over the counter' pro dealer. Whilst there a litterally dozens of options I have a decent idea of what sells and what is held in high regard and at the moment the best options in your price range are probably the various Adam models.

A big advantage being that if you get it wrong, they are, relatively easy, to move on.

 

[gasolin]

What about some danish, the system audio saxo 1, the Dynaudio dbm50 or the dali kubik someting like 550,620,670 (euro)

http://www.system-audio.com/_en-GB/loudspeakers/compact%20speakers/SA_saxo_1_active/SA_saxo_active_1

http://dynaudioprofessional.com/bm-series/legacy/dbm50/ http://www.thomann.de/gb/dynaudio_dbm50.htm

http://www.dali-speakers.com/en-US/Loudspeakers-1/KUBIK-XTRA.aspx (remember to look at the reviews)

 

[byakuya83]

There are some new Quad actives but not seen a review yet. Teufel seem to have a range of wireless active speakers.

 

[Broner]

Thanks for the different suggestions. I will look (browse) into each one of them to see whether I will give them an audition or not. About the Adam A7X: I am truly interested in those speakers, but it's a shame that it's basically impossible to connect both the tv and the sonos to the speakers. Such a shame. And they are also a little bit bigger than I want them to be, so maybe the A5X is something to take a look at.

 

[davedotco]

Thanks for the different suggestions. I will look (browse) into each one of them to see whether I will give them an audition or not. About the Adam A7X: I am truly interested in those speakers, but it's a shame that it's basically impossible to connect both the tv and the sonos to the speakers. Such a shame. And they are also a little bit bigger than I want them to be, so maybe the A5X is something to take a look at.

There are simple 'work rounds', if you want to go down that route.

Firstly you can connect your tv to the Sonos Connect analogue in, either from a scart or RCA output on your TV, or if it is digital out only, via a cheap, generic dac.

Alternatively you can use the Sonos into a multi input dac, along with the TV, possibly even with auto switching. I use a Fiio D3 in almost exactly this configuration (AEX instead of Sonos) but it requires manual switching which is not ideal, though I live with it.

The A7x speakers are pretty damn good, pretty much the 'go to' monitor at the price. Thoman have some in a rather nice piano gloss black at €800pr approx. If not I would go for A5xs or Presonus Eris 8, depending on what I wanted to spend.

 

[Broner]

Thanks for the different suggestions. I will look (browse) into each one of them to see whether I will give them an audition or not. About the Adam A7X: I am truly interested in those speakers, but it's a shame that it's basically impossible to connect both the tv and the sonos to the speakers. Such a shame. And they are also a little bit bigger than I want them to be, so maybe the A5X is something to take a look at.

There are simple 'work rounds', if you want to go down that route.

Firstly you can connect your tv to the Sonos Connect analogue in, either from a scart or RCA output on your TV, or if it is digital out only, via a cheap, generic dac.

Alternatively you can use the Sonos into a multi input dac, along with the TV, possibly even with auto switching. I use a Fiio D3 in almost exactly this configuration (AEX instead of Sonos) but it requires manual switching which is not ideal, though I live with it.

The A7x speakers are pretty damn good, pretty much the 'go to' monitor at the price. Thoman have some in a rather nice piano gloss black at €800pr approx. If not I would go for A5xs or Presonus Eris 8, depending on what I wanted to spend.

It's funny. I started out thinking how I could connect everything to the sonos until someone on the sonos forum mentioned that I could bypass it when thinking about connecting the tv to the speakers... (sometimes one is just stuck in a specific way of thinking) and now the oppositve thing was happening. I'll look into your suggestion tomorrow. I need to go to bed now.

Also, the A7X do not appear to nearly as large as I thought. Some website put the dimensions of the A8X under the A7X. So right now it's definitely an option.

EDIT: Isn't it also possible to use a digital cable to feed the tv's audio directly into the Sonos. The Sonos then functions as a DAC right?

 

[davedotco]

Thanks for the different suggestions. I will look (browse) into each one of them to see whether I will give them an audition or not. About the Adam A7X: I am truly interested in those speakers, but it's a shame that it's basically impossible to connect both the tv and the sonos to the speakers. Such a shame. And they are also a little bit bigger than I want them to be, so maybe the A5X is something to take a look at.

There are simple 'work rounds', if you want to go down that route.

Firstly you can connect your tv to the Sonos Connect analogue in, either from a scart or RCA output on your TV, or if it is digital out only, via a cheap, generic dac.

Alternatively you can use the Sonos into a multi input dac, along with the TV, possibly even with auto switching. I use a Fiio D3 in almost exactly this configuration (AEX instead of Sonos) but it requires manual switching which is not ideal, though I live with it.

The A7x speakers are pretty damn good, pretty much the 'go to' monitor at the price. Thoman have some in a rather nice piano gloss black at €800pr approx. If not I would go for A5xs or Presonus Eris 8, depending on what I wanted to spend.

It's funny. I started out thinking how I could connect everything to the sonos until someone on the sonos forum mentioned that I could bypass it when thinking about connecting the tv to the speakers... (sometimes one is just stuck in a specific way of thinking) and now the oppositve thing was happening. I'll look into your suggestion tomorrow. I need to go to bed now.

Also, the A7X do not appear to nearly as large as I thought. Some website put the dimensions of the A8X under the A7X. So right now it's definitely an option.

EDIT: Isn't it also possible to use a digital cable to feed the tv's audio directly into the Sonos. The Sonos then functions as a DAC right?

No. No digital input on the Connect.

Just use a cheap outboard Dac, it,s only TV. Everything is then controlled from the Sonos remote app.

 

[Broner]

Thanks for the different suggestions. I will look (browse) into each one of them to see whether I will give them an audition or not. About the Adam A7X: I am truly interested in those speakers, but it's a shame that it's basically impossible to connect both the tv and the sonos to the speakers. Such a shame. And they are also a little bit bigger than I want them to be, so maybe the A5X is something to take a look at.

There are simple 'work rounds', if you want to go down that route.

Firstly you can connect your tv to the Sonos Connect analogue in, either from a scart or RCA output on your TV, or if it is digital out only, via a cheap, generic dac.

Alternatively you can use the Sonos into a multi input dac, along with the TV, possibly even with auto switching. I use a Fiio D3 in almost exactly this configuration (AEX instead of Sonos) but it requires manual switching which is not ideal, though I live with it.

The A7x speakers are pretty damn good, pretty much the 'go to' monitor at the price. Thoman have some in a rather nice piano gloss black at €800pr approx. If not I would go for A5xs or Presonus Eris 8, depending on what I wanted to spend.

It's funny. I started out thinking how I could connect everything to the sonos until someone on the sonos forum mentioned that I could bypass it when thinking about connecting the tv to the speakers... (sometimes one is just stuck in a specific way of thinking) and now the oppositve thing was happening. I'll look into your suggestion tomorrow. I need to go to bed now.

Also, the A7X do not appear to nearly as large as I thought. Some website put the dimensions of the A8X under the A7X. So right now it's definitely an option.

EDIT: Isn't it also possible to use a digital cable to feed the tv's audio directly into the Sonos. The Sonos then functions as a DAC right?

No. No digital input on the Connect.

Just use a cheap outboard Dac, it,s only TV. Everything is then controlled from the Sonos remote app.

O yeah, it only has digital outs. Right!

 

[unsleepable]

The A7x speakers are pretty damn good, pretty much the 'go to' monitor at the price. Thoman have some in a rather nice piano gloss black at €800pr approx. If not I would go for A5xs or Presonus Eris 8, depending on what I wanted to spend.

The A7X are nearfield monitors. Do you think they would also work well as living-room speakers? The way audio spreads is quite different.

I also think that these speakers work best with an external volume control—typically a preamp. Otherwise, the volume must be adjusted in one of the speakers (they can be linked), and they don't have a remote control.

I guess this is anyways a matter of taste… There are also the Croft pre- and integrated amplifiers without remote and independent left and right volume controls. I personally could not live with those, but obviously there are many people who love them.

 

[Broner]

Are the Adam Artist 5 any different from the A5X? Is it all looks and connections that makes the difference? I came across a pair of B-stock Adam Artist 5, for 600e for a pair.

My girlfriend had a look at them and she prefers them. Her favorites would be the Dali Kubiks, but it's difficult for me to comprehend how those little babies can be really proper replacements due to their size and weight (even though the reviews are extremely positive).

EDIT: just saw a video in which ADAM themselves are saying that it's basically an A5X with a different cabinet and additional connections.

 

[davedotco]

The A7x speakers are pretty damn good, pretty much the 'go to' monitor at the price. Thoman have some in a rather nice piano gloss black at €800pr approx. If not I would go for A5xs or Presonus Eris 8, depending on what I wanted to spend.

The A7X are nearfield monitors. Do you think they would also work well as living-room speakers? The way audio spreads is quite different.

I also think that these speakers work best with an external volume control—typically a preamp. Otherwise, the volume must be adjusted in one of the speakers (they can be linked), and they don't have a remote control.

I guess this is anyways a matter of taste… There are also the Croft pre- and integrated amplifiers without remote and independent left and right volume controls. I personally could not live with those, but obviously there are many people who love them.

Nearfield monitor is a meaningless term in a hi fi connotation, forget it. (In pro applications it means that they are not powerful enough to use at a distance, as main monitors). The A7x will work fine as a normally positioned hi-fi speaker, just adjust and setup as normal.

In this application the volume adjustment is taken care of by the Sonos Connect, just use the controls on the Adams so that you are using the Sonos volume close to, or at maximum output. That way you control everything from the Sonos app, very tidy.

 

[davedotco]

Are the Adam Artist 5 any different from the A5X? Is it all looks and connections that makes the difference? I came across a pair of B-stock Adam Artist 5, for 600e for a pair.

My girlfriend had a look at them and she prefers them. Her favorites would be the Dali Kubiks, but it's difficult for me to comprehend how those little babies can be really proper replacements due to their size and weight (even though the reviews are extremely positive).

EDIT: just saw a video in which ADAM themselves are saying that it's basically an A5X with a different cabinet and additional connections.

There have been suggestions in some quarters that the Artist range has a slghtly more 'relaxed' presentation compared to the A series.

If that is so it is a pretty small difference to my ears, though of course the A series does look rather more purposeful, slightly brutal even. It could simply be a visual thing, looks more agressive >> sounds more aggressive. Nothing much in it really.