An Amplifier's ability to drive speakers

[nopiano]

I suspect few speakers will be prepared to knock over its pint though!

🤣🤣🤣

 

[twinkletoes]

Why doesn’t my amp have a problem handling these dips?

I guess that it is going to be part of my learning curve but what does my H95 have that allows it to handle these dips.

I feel a bit daft that I don’t know the answer to this, but I just assumed that at 60wpc it was underpowered for the speakers and ultimately to get the best out of the 7’s I needed to upgrade, in many respects I should have kept the H120 I had on demo at the same time as the H95 but decided to save a few hundred quid and go with the H95.

There arn't many amps that can drive 2ohm loads. Yours is one that can. if should be fine with the atc's

Amps can be easily made to make loud noise's what separates them is current resvere THOSE BIG OLD V8 captictors the more merrier. Ever looked at that those behemoth Yamaha amps with a giant 4/6pack in the middle of the case work. Thats what you need, thats the real power that where the control comes from.

Then you need a giant transformer to keep those caps saturated 3-400va are very good transformers.
basically its about how fast you can refill them, This is why watts in large scheme of things, means absolutely nothing and is largely a marketing term that, well works, to sell amplifiers.

big ol hype stickers with a 1000watts written across it sells to unwitting punters. Bigger means better right?

Now would I pair my 20watt sugden with your ATC's, no because it doesn't have the current storage for them as it wastes most of it current draw as heat.

You'll find that if you can give your amp its own plug meaning not shared with other devices there will actually be an uplift in sound. because your not starving those caps slowing your dynamic responses.

just to add

Your amp use's 2 dedicated transformers one for the digital circuits so its not sharing current inside the unit either the big boy is giving all it can to audio circuit very rare. And is using 4 massive 10,000μF/63V capacitors you really cant ask for much more. the bigger amps up the chain aren't really going to give yo much more other than more control when the wick gets turned up.

 

[Gray]

Can you elaborate on this for me please.

I'll have a go with an analogy that should help:

Watts are a unit of power.
They are a product of volts X amps.

Picture a large, high up tank of water with a pipe coming out of the bottom.

Think of the water as electricity.
The tankful is the voltage - with potential energy waiting to be released.

The diameter of the pipe determines the rate of flow (electrically measured as amps).

A 20mm diameter pipe would deliver the 'electricity' 4 times faster than a 5mm diameter one.

Over time, the same 'wattage' will have come out - it's just that with the larger pipe, it lands faster.

As your speaker impedance dips it's better for it to have the bigger pipe (higher, faster current flow) to meet the demand....an amp with greater current capability (no thin, restrictive pipes).

 

[Oxfordian]

There arn't many amps that can drive 2ohm loads. Yours is one that can. if should be fine with the atc's

Amps can be easily made to make loud noise's what separates them is current resvere THOSE BIG OLD V8 captictors the more merrier. Ever looked at that those behemoth Yamaha amps with a giant 4/6pack in the middle of the case work. Thats what you need, thats the real power that where the control comes from.

Then you need a giant transformer to keep those caps saturated 3-400va are very good transformers.
basically its about how fast you can refill them, This is why watts in large scheme of things, means absolutely nothing and is largely a marketing term that, well works, to sell amplifiers.

big ol hype stickers with a 1000watts written across it sells to unwitting punters. Bigger means better right?

Now would I pair my 20watt sugden with your ATC's, no because it doesn't have the current storage for them as it wastes most of it current draw as heat.

You'll find that if you can give your amp its own plug meaning not shared with other devices there will actually be an uplift in sound. because your not starving those caps slowing your dynamic responses.

just to add

Your amp use's 2 dedicated transformers one for the digital circuits so its not sharing current inside the unit either the big boy is giving all it can to audio circuit very rare. And is using 4 massive 10,000μF/63V capacitors you really cant ask for much more. the bigger amps up the chain aren't really going to give yo much more other than more control when the wick gets turned up.

Said in a language I can understand, thank you.

In essence in my small room what I have now is in reality all I need, going to a H120/190 would almost be a complete waste of money unless I get a bigger listening room and maybe need a bit more volume?

 

[Oxfordian]

I'll have a go with an analogy that should help:

Watts are a unit of power.
They are a product of volts X amps.

Picture a large, high up tank of water with a pipe coming out of the bottom.

Think of the water as electricity.
The tankful is the voltage - with potential energy waiting to be released.

The diameter of the pipe determines the rate of flow (electrically measured as amps).

A 20mm diameter pipe would deliver the 'electricity' 4 times faster than a 5mm diameter one.

Over time, the same 'wattage' will have come out - it's just that with the larger pipe, it lands faster.

As your speaker impedance dips it's better for it to have the bigger pipe (higher, faster current flow) to meet the demand....an amp with greater current capability (no thin, restrictive pipes).

Thanks, yes this analogy helps.

 

[nopiano]

Brilliant, thank you very much

The crunch is the 7 amp current limit, which gives rise to the power output drooping below 4 ohms in your H95. That’s why the review says stick to 8 ohm speakers, exactly what your ATCs are.

Quoting the review: “But with just a pair of output devices per channel, and modest power supply, current-limiting restricts its output to 79W/2ohm and just 6W/1ohm.”

For an extreme comparison, my ‘25 watt’ amplifier can yield 255W into 1ohm, versus the Hegel‘s 6 watts! That’s thanks to the Pass yielding a peak current of 16 amps -v- 7 amps from the H95.

However, that’s not a criticism of the Hegel which is pretty competitive for £1500, because aside from anything else the Pass INT25 integrated(with the same power section as mine) is almost five times the price at £7195.

It’s a bit of a rough and ready guide, but the weight of an amplifier can give you a clue too:-

Hegel H95 rated 60wpc - 11kg
Pass INT25 rated 25wpc - 22kg

 

[Oxfordian]

The crunch is the 7 amp current limit, which gives rise to the power output drooping below 4 ohms in your H95. That’s why the review says stick to 8 ohm speakers, exactly what your ATCs are.

Quoting the review: “But with just a pair of output devices per channel, and modest power supply, current-limiting restricts its output to 79W/2ohm and just 6W/1ohm.”

For an extreme comparison, my ‘25 watt’ amplifier can yield 255W into 1ohm, versus the Hegel‘s 6 watts! That’s thanks to the Pass yielding a peak current of 16 amps -v- 7 amps from the H95.

However, that’s not a criticism of the Hegel which is pretty competitive for £1500, because aside from anything else the Pass INT25 integrated(with the same power section as mine) is almost five times the price at £7195.

It’s a bit of a rough and ready guide, but the weight of an amplifier can give you a clue too:-

Hegel H95 rated 60wpc - 11kg
Pass INT25 rated 25wpc - 22kg

Thanks, I am beginning to get an understanding of what is happening inside the box, appreciated.

 

[twinkletoes]

Said in a language I can understand, thank you.

In essence in my small room what I have now is in reality all I need, going to a H120/190 would almost be a complete waste of money unless I get a bigger listening room and maybe need a bit more volume?

Exactly. Unless you’re listening at much higher volumes and or need to pressurise a large room your not going to notice much if anything at all especially within the same brand.

Been there done that with naim amps

 

[manicm]

Watts are indeed
Watts are indeed watts.
It is more about delivery of current to your speakers.
Amps have to be able to deal with huge dips in impedence of some speakers.
Some amps can handle this well.
If wouldn't worry too much about said class of amp however Class A are better suited to really efficient speakers. Your ATCs do not fit this category.

At lower volumes Class A amps can actually drive speakers better, because they're churning out constant and consistent power, instead of the switching on and off of Class A/B amps. It's also why Class A amps run hot.

Marantz I think was the first that released an amp in the early 2000s that performs in A mode up to a certain level, and then A/B after that. Arcam and others emulated them with their so called Class G amps.

 

[matthewpianist]

NAD amps are excellent at driving a whole range of speakers. Even the lower-powered C315BEE and C325BEE I had did not show any signs of struggle with any of the speakers I used with them. The C368 could drive pretty much anything with ease.

 

[twinkletoes]

NAD amps are excellent at driving a whole range of speakers. Even the lower-powered C315BEE and C325BEE I had did not show any signs of struggle with any of the speakers I used with them. The C368 could drive pretty much anything with ease.

yeah my 320bee didnt care what was on it it just got on with the job

 

[spl84]

I'm glad you made this thread. I have a question kind of in the same vein of thought. I recently bought some Focal Aria 936 speakers and while they're impressive, they're not as impressive as I'd expect for what they cost. While my turntable is certainly not high end, It does have a pretty nice cartridge. I'm thinking my amp is the real weak link. It's a sony str-sh190. This is a very cheap receiver but it does put out 100 wpc. How much of a difference would it make to the sound quality to step up to a nice Marantz, or maybe even a Naim or McIntosh unit?

 

[matthewpianist]

I'm glad you made this thread. I have a question kind of in the same vein of thought. I recently bought some Focal Aria 936 speakers and while they're impressive, they're not as impressive as I'd expect for what they cost. While my turntable is certainly not high end, It does have a pretty nice cartridge. I'm thinking my amp is the real weak link. It's a sony str-sh190. This is a very cheap receiver but it does put out 100 wpc. How much of a difference would it make to the sound quality to step up to a nice Marantz, or maybe even a Naim or McIntosh unit?

You have correctly identified the weak link in your system. Those Focals would sound different again on the end of a Naim Wait 5 (I, I, or is version).

 

[Oxfordian]

You have correctly identified the weak link in your system. Those Focals would sound different again on the end of a Naim Wait 5 (I, I, or is version).

Is it a long list for that Naim, just wondering as you do.



Okay I'm leaving, but I just couldn't resist, sorry

 

[matthewpianist]

Is it a long list for that Naim, just wondering as you do.



Okay I'm leaving, but I just couldn't resist, sorry

Beaten by auto-correct again!

 

[twinkletoes]

I'm glad you made this thread. I have a question kind of in the same vein of thought. I recently bought some Focal Aria 936 speakers and while they're impressive, they're not as impressive as I'd expect for what they cost. While my turntable is certainly not high end, It does have a pretty nice cartridge. I'm thinking my amp is the real weak link. It's a sony str-sh190. This is a very cheap receiver but it does put out 100 wpc. How much of a difference would it make to the sound quality to step up to a nice Marantz, or maybe even a Naim or McIntosh unit?

as I mentioned above

"Amps can be easily made to make loud noise's what separates them is current resvere THOSE BIG OLD V8 captictors the more merrier. Ever looked at that those behemoth Yamaha amps with a giant 4/6pack in the middle of the case work. Thats what you need, thats the real power that where the control comes from."

The amps in the str-sh190 will be weather weak shearing power with all the other bits and bob in that case if its transformer is small it just wont be able to keep up with the demand of the system. These amps aunt really designed to drive LARGE speaker full range. they are designed to run sub stat systems. With the speakers high passed. There aren't many AVR's that can do this successfully and they always sound animic to me and ive had some expensive AVR's im day and all share the same trait.

If you run 2.1 channels only and you want to stick with AVR's and you don't need the latest greatest with all the latest HDMI connectivity or surround processing . I recommend a Yamaha z11 or the older z9 these things are utter monsters and wont suffer the traits above and real gems of the hifi world, BE WARNED they're big physically and audibly.

if want a nice 2 Channel amp Naim like that mentioned above or Musical fidelity would be on my audition list,

 

[nopiano]

I'm glad you made this thread. I have a question kind of in the same vein of thought. I recently bought some Focal Aria 936 speakers and while they're impressive, they're not as impressive as I'd expect for what they cost. While my turntable is certainly not high end, It does have a pretty nice cartridge. I'm thinking my amp is the real weak link. It's a sony str-sh190. This is a very cheap receiver but it does put out 100 wpc. How much of a difference would it make to the sound quality to step up to a nice Marantz, or maybe even a Naim or McIntosh unit?

Probably a lot. It’s hard to explain until you hear it yourself, and then it’s obvious. Even modest speakers sound bigger and more effortless. It can even sound better without raising the volume, so it’s better all round, not just for the loud stuff!

Looking at the Stereophile lab report for the 936, they are usefully sensitive, but with quite a low impedance. Very much needing an amp comfortable with 4ohms.

What sort of budget have you in mind, as we can then spend it for you? ☺️

 

[Stuart83]

I'm glad you made this thread. I have a question kind of in the same vein of thought. I recently bought some Focal Aria 936 speakers and while they're impressive, they're not as impressive as I'd expect for what they cost. While my turntable is certainly not high end, It does have a pretty nice cartridge. I'm thinking my amp is the real weak link. It's a sony str-sh190. This is a very cheap receiver but it does put out 100 wpc. How much of a difference would it make to the sound quality to step up to a nice Marantz, or maybe even a Naim or McIntosh unit?

The amp and speakers are the biggest 2 factors in a hifi giving that the other ancillaries are half decent that's where the most difference is made

 

[GroeneLeeuw]

The Focals although sensitive at (I believe) 92db do dip low at 2.9 Ohm, they don´t need many watts but do need a stable amplifier.

I have Focals myself, the Chorus 726, drive them with a Denon PMA-1600ne