Expensive HiFi....VFM?

[jaxwired]

Ever notice how many HiFi manufacturer's advertisements make statements like "better than competitors costing several times the price"? You might say this is just marketing hype, but I suspect that many of the manufactures actually believe it to be true.

I also see this type of statement frequently in audio product reviews. So many reviewers also often find products that are competitive with much more expensive offerings from other manufacturers.

So, if there's any truth to these claims, there must be a boat load of expensive products that are poor value for money.

 

[Anonymous]

not quite sure where your coming from

vfm depends on how much youver got

as to reviews unless you do a direct comparison with more expensive items then then you cant really say otherwise your relying on memory and thats fallible

for example ive seen many comments about the vdac or dacmagic being as good as dacs costing three times more but howre you going to know unless you do a direct comparison

i have by the way and the expensive dac was better so a lot of its just the manudacturers marketing department

 

[izpuuteejs]

Usually the more expensive gear is the bettter.

Of course there are excerpts (value/money/performance )in all price ranges but anyway I think if system costs 100k then there wont' be equal performance for 15 or 30k

 

[Anonymous]

There is a lot of expensive kit around and it does not necessarily all sound better - due to this being such a subjective thing.

It may be technically better and for the person who likes that 'sound' it will be better, but to another person with a different preference, it may sound either worse, or just not good value .... if it doesn't tick the boxes for them.

Of course the Law of Diminishing returns comes in to play as things get more expensive also. As with anything. Spending double will likely not mean it's twice as good, above a certain price point.

That said, with patience - spending more can be very worthwhile, if you are able to find the kit that really floats your boat. VALUE is also very subjective!

 

[chebby]

jaxwired:Ever notice how many HiFi manufacturer's advertisements make statements like "better than competitors costing several times the price"?

No I can't think of any. (Just skimmed through this month's HFN, HFW and WHF and still can't see any.)

Any examples?

 

[jaxwired]

chebby:

jaxwired:Ever notice how many HiFi manufacturer's advertisements make statements like "better than competitors costing several times the price"?

No I can't think of any. (Just skimmed through this month's HFN, HFW and WHF and still can't see any.)

Any examples?

Seriously? I didn't think I'd be challenged from that perspective. I only made the post because I read the claim this morining in an ad in stereophile, but I'm positive I've seen this general gist in other ads. And many times in reviews. It's really not worth my time to find the examples. I'm too lazy to do that, but I do believe examples do exist.

 

[chebby]

Stereophile? Ah ok I forgot. You are coming from N. American perspective. Maybe such ads are more prevalent there.

I am not saying such ads have never existed in our UK mags but I don't recall any and - as I said - in a quick check of three recent issues earlier, I did not find any.

In fact if I came across such an advert (saying... "better than competitors costing several times the price") then I would probably avoid their product as it is a dated and redundant form of advertising copy more suited to washing powder ads in the 1950s.

 

[the record spot]

You do see some Ebay listing from the Affordable Valve Company who pitch their products as being "better than amps costing £30k!!!!!!!!" and the like. Unfortunately, they shoot themselves in the foot by having rather confusing and conflicting information in places which make the decision making process tricky.

 

[Anonymous]

I think we know what the OP means. And there's truth in the experience that for marginal gains you may have to pay a lot more .

Subjectivity or maybe that's gullibility lies in a willingness to believe the gains are worth it .

For example I was listening to the Cambridge audio 650 A and C system in RS via Mordaunt short 2's and it was not bad.

But I'd like to get the Cyrus 6cdse and 6vs 2 with PMC DB1''s second hand and the price difference would be between 500- 750 - now I'd be getting much better kit undoubteldy . The question then becomes value for YOUR money. And that has to do with where you place music in your pleasures list, what is your budget at that time and whether you see this purchase as the finish of your audio journey or the beginning of an upgrade approach.

 

[Ajani]

jaxwired:chebby:

jaxwired:Ever notice how many HiFi manufacturer's advertisements make statements like "better than competitors costing several times the price"?

No I can't think of any. (Just skimmed through this month's HFN, HFW and WHF and still can't see any.)

Any examples?

Seriously? I didn't think I'd be challenged from that perspective. I only made the post because I read the claim this morining in an ad in stereophile, but I'm positive I've seen this general gist in other ads. And many times in reviews. It's really not worth my time to find the examples. I'm too lazy to do that, but I do believe examples do exist.

Yep, your examples do exist... it's a fairly common claim in North American review mags and ads, but I can't remember hearing them much in UK mags...

An example I can think of off hand was a review of the Cambridge Audio 840C in TAS, where they claimed it was as good as CD players costing $5K (keep in mind the 840C only cost $1.5K at the time of the review).

 

[JoelSim]

The thing you have to remember is that value is not just about price, it's about giving you what you want at a price that's acceptable.

I recently bought some cheddar cheese on offer at Tesco, £4 for 3 packs as opposed to 1 pack at £2.38.

It's revolting, so that to me is very bad value even though it was cheap. I would rather have spent £4 on 1 piece of decent cheddar.

2 packs thrown to the fox who lives in the back garden. Good value for him.

 

[matthewpiano]

Great post Joel - agree with that completely (and there is nothing worse than revolting cheese!!).

You do get more performance if you pay more but it takes careful planning, research and auditioning as appropriate. It is very easy to spend more and end up with less simply by buying into the wrong combination of components or a system that doesn't tick the right boxes for you as an individual.

I think Joel's systematic and careful approach to upgrading is a great example and certainly one I'm going to be following over the next couple of years.

 

[Anonymous]

nah go for the spontaneous

you only live once

 

[JoelSim]

matthewpiano:Great post Joel - agree with that completely (and there is nothing worse than revolting cheese!!). You do get more performance if you pay more but it takes careful planning, research and auditioning as appropriate. It is very easy to spend more and end up with less simply by buying into the wrong combination of components or a system that doesn't tick the right boxes for you as an individual.I think Joel's systematic and careful approach to upgrading is a great example and certainly one I'm going to be following over the next couple of years.

Completely based on instinct, trusting reviewers, doing a lot of homework and knowing what kind of sound I like. Auditioning would have been more careful, but hey!

 

[Craig M.]

i think joel is right, knowing what kind of sound you like and which reviews to trust can get you a long way. i've found this mags reviews to be pretty spot on, i bought my amp blind (with the promise i could return if i didn't like) and found it sounds exactly like the review. in fact the only one i didn't agree with was the recommended budget system of c.a.640 with wharfedale 9.1, but this could easily have been a case of having too high an expectation of budget kit. it was still a lot better then the denon mini sytem it replaced though.

 

[bigblue235]

jaxwired:

Ever notice how many HiFi manufacturer's advertisements make statements like "better than competitors costing several times the price"? You might say this is just marketing hype, but I suspect that many of the manufactures actually believe it to be true.

I also see this type of statement frequently in audio product reviews. So many reviewers also often find products that are competitive with much more expensive offerings from other manufacturers.

I haven't noticed a lot of it in adverts, or reviews for that matter, but it's far too common on forums.

One example being whatever Ebay interconnects are in fashion at the mo, such as Gotham or SHB. I'm sure they suit some people, and they may be decent in their own right, but I fail so see how they can be claimed to be better than big-brand cables at ten times the price.

Another thing along similar lines is the buzz about 'modding' equipment. It is often claimed to bring improvements that are wildly disproporionate to the cost. I'm sure it works well sometimes, but not always to the extent it's claimed to. If I tinkered about with my gear, I'd expect to have varying levels of success. But yet there's people that have spent £150 on tweaking their £650 speakers, who then go on to claim that the result performs like a £2500 model.

If these types of claims are true, then either the hi-fi market is indeed a total rip-off, or the big hi-fi companies don't know how to make their products as cost-effectively as some bloke in his garage with a soldering iron. Can't see it myself