why Germans are so expensive (and Danes)?

xtsili

New member
Jun 24, 2010
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I would like to share my thoughts with you. I realized that there exist countless German companies - and quite few Danish - that make extravagantly expensive hi-fi: loudspeakers range with median prices in the order of 30-50 KEuro, amps costing no less than 8-10Keuro etc. (Americans may also have several companies that sell very expensive but they do also have numerous boutique companies that make novel products at devent prices).

Now you guys being a powerhouse in hifi - I mean UK - have managed to make serious components selling in much more reasonable prices - apart from few flagship models from few companies that are very pricey too.

What is the main reason for that? Do Germans (and Danes) have a technological edge - and UK does not?

Is it the hype they build upon?

Or is it that they are small companies having invested in yearly costly research?

Or they buy exotic materials to build their products?

Really I don't understand. It is as if these companies discard modeslty priced hifi and deal only with outwardly components.

Curious to find out what you think.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Your premise is flawed. Some companies in the UK such as Musical Fidelity, Naim, EAR, Sugden run from budget to insanely expensive, while some such as Linn just do expensive.

In Germany there's T+A who are expensive, but there's also Canton, Elac, Heco et all who run the gamut from cheap to expensive.

Denmark has B&O. It also has Dynaudio, Densen, Jamo and Dali who produce products which range from affordable to expensive.

The UK industry really have only one company that makes modestly priced, decent HiFi, and that's Rega. All the rest are either Chinese or outsourced to China.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
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Grottyash:The UK industry really have only one company that makes modestly priced, decent HiFi, and that's Rega. All the rest are either Chinese or outsourced to China.

And Naim. The first two or three 'rungs' of their range is hardly 'exotica' and the NaimUniti is incredible value.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
chebby:
Grottyash:The UK industry really have only one company that makes modestly priced, decent HiFi, and that's Rega. All the rest are either Chinese or outsourced to China.

And Naim. The first two or three 'rungs' of their range is hardly 'exotica' and the NaimUniti is incredible value.

Yes, that's why I mentioned them first.
 

xtsili

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Jun 24, 2010
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Isophone, Lansche, MBL, Aaron, AR acoustics, Ascendo, Holfi, Fischer and Fischer, German Physics, Seta Audio, System Audio, Cycnus Audio, Vroemen, Burmester, from Germany to name few.

Lyngdorf, Gamut, Gryphon from Denmark to name also few, even Dynaudio - fewer than Germany though.

These guys make equipment that may have a price tag more than 100Keuro+, easily. Yes, Heco, Magnat, Canton, Teufel are reasonable, but IMO it is mere a normal thing that a huge country like Germnay will have few manufacturers that appeal to the masses. The issue is that they also have a very big insdustry consisting of smaller very very expensive firms and it is this that setting the tone.

I know no UK company that the bulk of their products are so expensive: yes Chord, Linn, etc are very expensive but even most of the expensive companies you named, pale against Germans in terms of expensiveness.

So I believe here we have a legitimate question, as to what justify their unearthy prices.
 
A

Anonymous

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According to wiki there are about twice as many USD millionaires in Germany than in the UK, probably the market allows it.
 

Clare Newsome

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Jun 4, 2007
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Don't forget that Germany is also home to the Munich High-End Show - one of the world's foremost showcases of high-end audio. It's a truly impressive show - bigger than anything we have here in the UK and yet with an almost exclusively premium (and in many cases INSANELY expensive) focus.

When you've got a showcase/marketplace like that (see also the Moscow Hi-fi Show), it's no wonder there's a healthy supply of product.
 

xtsili

New member
Jun 24, 2010
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Pete10 provides a reasonable explanation.

Clare, you think it's all due to good marketing and enormus exposure, a huge high-end show may guarantee?

I mean, how these guyys dare to sell a pair of loudspeakers for 135Keuro (i.e. Gryphon) without most of them having a normal-price range of products when even Chord, Musical Fidelity, Linn, Naim do have, let alone KEF and B&W.

Do they have a unique proposition here, others cannot compete? I really want to know.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Is it the Rolex model (allows one to show off, time displayed is the same as a $10 quartz watch), or the Ferrari model (also allows you to show off, but with something that is truly outstanding, thanks to years of research).

You choose, but the showing off comes into the equation probably, for a fair chunk of the sales. They are not only selling a product. also a feeling, of being able to afford something so extravagant. Stereo, watches, sunglasses, football teams...

This is not to be interpreted that I deny there are outstanding products, it just takes something else or extra to also sell it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
xtsili:
Isophone, Lansche, MBL, Aaron, AR acoustics, Ascendo, Holfi, Fischer and Fischer, German Physics, Seta Audio, System Audio, Cycnus Audio, Vroemen, Burmester, from Germany to name few.

Lyngdorf, Gamut, Gryphon from Denmark to name also few, even Dynaudio - fewer than Germany though.

These guys make equipment that may have a price tag more than 100Keuro+, easily. Yes, Heco, Magnat, Canton, Teufel are reasonable, but IMO it is mere a normal thing that a huge country like Germnay will have few manufacturers that appeal to the masses. The issue is that they also have a very big insdustry consisting of smaller very very expensive firms and it is this that setting the tone.

I know no UK company that the bulk of their products are so expensive: yes Chord, Linn, etc are very expensive but even most of the expensive companies you named, pale against Germans in terms of expensiveness.

So I believe here we have a legitimate question, as to what justify their unearthy prices. Not at all. Have you checked to see what prices a Linn Sondek with the works goes for, or the latest SME turntable? Or perhaps a top-of-the-line Naim CD player? Or some Tannoy Horns?

As I said before, with a couple of exceptions cheap British=Chinese. Yes, both Germany and Denmark produce expensive HiFi, but then so do many other countries, so why pick on them? And lets not forget Magico, Martin Logan, Krell etc etc from the US.
 

xtsili

New member
Jun 24, 2010
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All I am saying is that Germans to a great extent target the ultra high-end market and considerably less the mass-market.

Yes Americans and Brits have also exotic gear to sell but a big chunk of their industry sell decent gear in the normal- to-expensive range.

Maybe it has to do with a strategic position they took to cover the UHE market niche, as they are capable of adding high value to their products, advancing technology and of outreaching markets thursty for beyond-life experiences (Russia, Far-East, etc).
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
xtsili:
All I am saying is that Germans to a great extent target the ultra high-end market and considerably less the mass-market.

Yes Americans and Brits have also exotic gear to sell but a big chunk of their industry sell decent gear in the normal- to-expensive range.

Maybe it has to do with a strategic position they took to cover the UHE market niche, as they are capable of adding high value to their products, advancing technology and of outreaching markets thursty for beyond-life experiences (Russia, Far-East, etc).

I'm not going to repeat what has already been said. What you say about the German HiFi industry simply is not true.

But why do you have such a problem with what the German manufacturers do anyway? They're economy is far more varied and successful than all of the others in Europe, so, instead of being jealous, shouldn't we be learning from them, rather than simply moving British industry off shore?
 

xtsili

New member
Jun 24, 2010
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I am not jealous :) I don't have any problem with the Germans manufacturers, it is simply a matter of curiosity. And I voiced it here at the forum, so that we have a nice discussion, which we had indeed. I was expecting though more elaborated explanations.

Anyway, off shore manufacturing...it is a long story..
 

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