Do you take this Logic, to be your lawful, wedded......

[steve_1979]

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.Laurence J. Peter
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.

Laurence J. Peter

An action doesn't have to be wrong just because it is not logical. It doesn't have to be right just because it has its logic.

Lion Feuchtwanger

Take your pick (The illogical guy could win it on coolness of name alone!)

I agree with them both.

 

[matthewpiano]

I think people here are confusing logic for reason. Everyone does things for a reason, reasons are not necessarily logical.

Most purchases are in fact emotionally driven, and emotional reasons are certainly not logical.

I certainly see nothing logical about wanting to satisfy my own auditory desires with music. And there is nothing logical about wanting to own the latest technology, or drool over the sexiest looking bit of kit.

Nope.

You listen to music for the "reason" you enjoy it. It's logical to listen to music if you enjoy it.

Even when purchases are made emotionally, I bet you use logic to hunt for a good price. And if the purchase makes you happier (for a while at least) then making the purchase has a certain logic.

"my reasons" may not be logical to you, but they are always logical in one way or another to me (or vice versa). They might not be "the most logical" reasons, or "most logical" decisions, but there is always some form of logical analysis involved.

Excellent post fr0g.

 

[fr0g]

I think people here are confusing logic for reason. Everyone does things for a reason, reasons are not necessarily logical.

Most purchases are in fact emotionally driven, and emotional reasons are certainly not logical.

I certainly see nothing logical about wanting to satisfy my own auditory desires with music. And there is nothing logical about wanting to own the latest technology, or drool over the sexiest looking bit of kit.

Nope.

You listen to music for the "reason" you enjoy it. It's logical to listen to music if you enjoy it.

Even when purchases are made emotionally, I bet you use logic to hunt for a good price. And if the purchase makes you happier (for a while at least) then making the purchase has a certain logic.

"my reasons" may not be logical to you, but they are always logical in one way or another to me (or vice versa). They might not be "the most logical" reasons, or "most logical" decisions, but there is always some form of logical analysis involved.

Excellent post fr0g.

Thanks Just call me pedantic, but I hate when someone says "I think you are confusing x with y" when it's blindingly obvious that isn't the case.

*not to mention, gets it totally wrong in the process. I'd like to see anyone have a "reason" for something without logical analysis of some sort.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Thanks Just call me pedantic, but I hate when someone says "I think you are confusing x with y" when it's blindingly obvious that isn't the case.

*not to mention, gets it totally wrong in the process. I'd like to see anyone have a "reason" for something without logical analysis of some sort.

I agree with a lot of what you say but it starts getting tricky with the above statement.(enters pedant mode) If you are walking down the street and suddenly a car swerves off the road towards you,you jump out of the way.Logical analysis only applies after you have done it.The act of evasion is pure reaction/self preservation.So you now have subconscious and conscious analysis.The subconscious "logical analysis" in this case could even be deemed emotional. Just a thought.

 

[fr0g]

Thanks Just call me pedantic, but I hate when someone says "I think you are confusing x with y" when it's blindingly obvious that isn't the case.

*not to mention, gets it totally wrong in the process. I'd like to see anyone have a "reason" for something without logical analysis of some sort.

I agree with a lot of what you say but it starts getting tricky with the above statement.(enters pedant mode) If you are walking down the street and suddenly a car swerves off the road towards you,you jump out of the way.Logical analysis only applies after you have done it.The act of evasion is pure reaction/self preservation.So you now have subconscious and conscious analysis.The subconscious "logical analysis" in this case could even be deemed emotional. Just a thought.

Good point, well made. Although I would guess there was some sort of built in subconcious logic at play. Genetic logic maybe? Instinct etc. Could be an interesting discussion.

 

[John Duncan]

You also apply emotional responses to decisions that should require only logic. For example logic may suggest I buy one product whilst emotion prevents me from doing so.

And before high horses are mounted...I'd like an S-Max because it's the perfect car for my needs, whilst Mrs JD 'will never drive a Ford'.

 

[fr0g]

You also apply emotional responses to decisions that should require only logic. For example logic may suggest I buy one product whilst emotion prevents me from doing so. And before high horses are mounted...I'd like an S-Max because it's the perfect car for my needs, whilst Mrs JD 'will never drive a Ford'.

That's still a logical choice. Same reason you have titchy speakers

ie Do I start wearing the pants, or do I settle for a thumb imprint on my head and an easy life?

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Nope.

You listen to music for the "reason" you enjoy it. It's logical to listen to music if you enjoy it.

Even when purchases are made emotionally, I bet you use logic to hunt for a good price. And if the purchase makes you happier (for a while at least) then making the purchase has a certain logic.

"my reasons" may not be logical to you, but they are always logical in one way or another to me (or vice versa). They might not be "the most logical" reasons, or "most logical" decisions, but there is always some form of logical analysis involved.

you're probably the best example of people I described in my post on page #1. you're so convinced that you're following some logical and concious pattern that you actually making a host of excuses and concious self assurances for things that just happen in your mind subconsciously. while I can understand that it's logical to listen to music that you like but tell me, where is logic in listening to music in the first place? it's just plain waste of time.

listening to music probably triggers some nice chemical reactions in your body, that it likes and gets used to, so it urges you to pursue this path. and then you make up this whole logical surrounding to make you feel like you're in control.

a point of explanation. from what I wrote one might get the idea that I think that our body and mind are separate entities fighting with each other. well, I don't. I just think that we're more of mindless machines that we'd like to think of ourselves.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

You also apply emotional responses to decisions that should require only logic

Hence my ooh comment above. Anyone who has been clothes shopping with their wife has already been educated that any impulse (read emotional) buying is perfectly logical (insert large full stop here)

 

[John Duncan]

That's still a logical choice.

Oh I can tell you it's not.

More appropriately, perhaps: "I don't want a blue car, I want a red one".

 

[John Duncan]

we're more of mindless machines that we'd like to think of ourselves.

I am an individual.

 

[slithytove1]

 

[chebby]

That's still a logical choice.

Oh I can tell you it's not.

More appropriately, perhaps: "I don't want a blue car, I want a red one".

Red = more visible after dark than blue = safer = logical.

 

[John Duncan]

That's still a logical choice.

Oh I can tell you it's not.

More appropriately, perhaps: "I don't want a blue car, I want a red one".

Actually, I take that back, that latter point isn't really one that can have logic applied to it (unless you're colour blind and want a car you can see).

 

[John Duncan]

That's still a logical choice.

Oh I can tell you it's not.

More appropriately, perhaps: "I don't want a blue car, I want a red one".

Red = more visible after dark than blue = safer = logical.

Or, more likely:

"I don't like blue."

"Why?"

"I just don't."

 

[fr0g]

Nope.

You listen to music for the "reason" you enjoy it. It's logical to listen to music if you enjoy it.

Even when purchases are made emotionally, I bet you use logic to hunt for a good price. And if the purchase makes you happier (for a while at least) then making the purchase has a certain logic.

"my reasons" may not be logical to you, but they are always logical in one way or another to me (or vice versa). They might not be "the most logical" reasons, or "most logical" decisions, but there is always some form of logical analysis involved.

you're probably the best example of people I described in my post on page #1. you're so convinced that you're following some logical and concious pattern that you actually making a host of excuses and concious self assurances for things that just happen in your mind subconsciously. while I can understand that it's logical to listen to music that you like but tell me, where is logic in listening to music in the first place? it's just plain waste of time.

listening to music probably triggers some nice chemical reactions in your body, that it likes and gets used to, so it urges you to pursue this path. and then you make up this whole logical surrounding to make you feel like you're in control.

a point of explanation. from what I wrote one might get the idea that I think that our body and mind are separate entities fighting with each other. well, I don't. I just think that we're more of mindless machines that we'd like to think of ourselves.

I'll thank you for not making wild and incorrect presumptions about me thanks...

I listen to music because it makes me happy. So it's logical I listen to music. I don't need to "make up" a logical surrounding as it's there already. I am definitely being pedantic, but pretty much every concscious decision you make is determined by some type of logic for good or bad. Sometimes it makes no sense as people do things they logically ought not to like drink too much alcohol or take drugs, so I don't for one second pretend that my logical decision making is the most sensible or wise thing or that I am always in control, just that there has to be logic involved.

And even when it comes to subconscious decision making, that has come from millions of years of evolution. Animals run from danger, and yes that isn't wholly an instant logical decision, but a result of millions of years of genetic logic if you like.

It's instinct, imprinted on the genes by past logical decisions. ie the Zebra-ancestors that stood and stared at the Lion-ancestors got eaten, the ones that made the logical decision to scarper as quick as possible's genes remained...So now I jump out of the way of a moving car (I hope).

So there!

 

[fr0g]

That's still a logical choice.

Oh I can tell you it's not.

More appropriately, perhaps: "I don't want a blue car, I want a red one".

Actually, I take that back, that latter point isn't really one that can have logic applied to it (unless you're colour blind and want a car you can see).

No the logic is choosing what you like the look of and/or putting up with what your missus prefers. I like red cars in the main, but they fade the worst, so I logically would not choose one, but if I loved the colour so much then the good feeling of owning a red car might trump the logic of not buying it for that reason.

I go for metallic black or silver variations these days.

 

[idc]

Hifi purchases are head vs heart. I used to buy with my heart and now I go with my head. All that measn is I completely ignore the likes of cables, make sure my DAC works, have an amp with enough power to drive my headphones and then spend the bulk of my money on headphones, the part which really matters and makes a difference.

 

[fr0g]

Red = more visible after dark than blue = safer = logical.

That's only one of many logical conclusions.

Red fades worst, choose blue

Red is what my football team wears, choose red because I want to be associated with "The reds"

Everyone in my street has a red car, choose red to be conformist

Everyone in my street has a red car, choose blue to be individual

Blue makes me feel sad "When I'm feeling blue etc", so I'd prefer a firey red car

Red disguises the blood, so I choose red! (I dunno)

Blue is more conservative and I'm not a show-off, choose blue.

etc

etc.

 

[professorhat]

I listen to music because it makes me happy. So it's logical I listen to music.

I listen to music because it makes me happy. So it's logical I listen to music.

Sometimes it makes no sense as people do things they logically ought not to like drink too much alcohol or take drugs, so I don't for one second pretend that my logical decision making is the most sensible or wise thing or that I am always in control, just that there has to be logic involved.

I enjoy drinking alcohol, so it is logical for me to do so. But then alcohol is a poison, so it is illogical for me to do so.

Friends, we have a logical paradox

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I'll thank you for not making wild and incorrect presumptions about me thanks...

it wasn't really making any wild and incorrect presumptions about you precisely. you were just an expample. my post was more about the science of human behaviour, not your behaviour. (but you are a human, aren't you? )

 

[fr0g]

I listen to music because it makes me happy. So it's logical I listen to music.

I listen to music because it makes me happy. So it's logical I listen to music.

Sometimes it makes no sense as people do things they logically ought not to like drink too much alcohol or take drugs, so I don't for one second pretend that my logical decision making is the most sensible or wise thing or that I am always in control, just that there has to be logic involved.

I enjoy drinking alcohol, so it is logical for me to do so. But then alcohol is a poison, so it is illogical for me to do so.

Friends, we have a logical paradox

I don't think this counts. See my red v blue car post. It's just where there are logical reasons for and against.

A logical paradox would be, say.

"I always lie"

*I think.

 

[professorhat]

But surely something cannot be both logical and illogical - that's not logical...

 

[fr0g]

I'll thank you for not making wild and incorrect presumptions about me thanks...

it wasn't really making any wild and incorrect presumptions about you precisely. you were just an expample. my post was more about the science of human behaviour, not your behaviour. (but you are a human, aren't you? )

I am not and never have been a pample, thanks..

 

[John Duncan]

Red = more visible after dark than blue = safer = logical.

That's only one of many logical conclusions.

Red fades worst, choose blue

Red is what my football team wears, choose red because I want to be associated with "The reds"

Everyone in my street has a red car, choose red to be conformist

Everyone in my street has a red car, choose blue to be individual

Blue makes me feel sad "When I'm feeling blue etc", so I'd prefer a firey red car

Red disguises the blood, so I choose red! (I dunno)

Blue is more conservative and I'm not a show-off, choose blue.

etc

etc.

I think you *are* being over-pedantic, simply because it's not possible to rationalise (or, possibly more correctly, is not worth rationalising) some outwardly emotional decisions (like "my favourite colour is blue"). So whilst subsequent decisions may follow a logic ("I do not like blue => I will not buy a blue car"), the initial proposition defies logical analysis.