Do any Amps exist with frequency bandwidth control

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insider9

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Vladimir said:
insider9 said:
Midrange is where the magic happens so I'd focus on it. If you like how your PMC are voiced I'd look for a Class A solid state amp. That was my thinking before I shelved my project.

Waste of money. This is the second time he bought based on the 'wisdom' of reviews and jobos like us. It's the second time he doesn't like the more expensive audiophile speakers over the cheap cinema or PA ones. He plays disco and indian music.

I'd sell the PMCs and buy those Yamaha PAs. Yes, no one will be my forum friend and I'll get no pats on the back, but I'll bloody enjoy music the way I like it. 
That's why earlier I suggested spending max £500 for amplification, active crossover, all cables and a pair of speakers. This way Newlash09 can learn what he really wants and gain some technical knowledge.

There's no substitute for experience.
 

newlash09

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Is to add Amps as I go ahead in a tri-amping configuration. Can't add bryston's and sit back sadly . I understand your agitation mr.vladimir. But it's no ones fault. Saying iam happy with my PMC's is a understatement. They are awesome in their own ways. I will be adding a sub and tried amping to see what I can extract from them. Please help me on the way
 

Vladimir

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newlash09 said:
Vladimir said:
insider9 said:
Midrange is where the magic happens so I'd focus on it. If you like how your PMC are voiced I'd look for a Class A solid state amp. That was my thinking before I shelved my project.

Waste of money. This is the second time he bought based on the 'wisdom' of reviews and jobos like us. It's the second time he doesn't like the more expensive audiophile speakers over the cheap cinema or PA ones. He plays disco and indian music.

I'd sell the PMCs and buy those Yamaha PAs. Yes, no one will be my forum friend and I'll get no pats on the back, but I'll bloody enjoy music the way I like it.

But some way that I can salvage my investment so far will really help. Trying to sell the QA concept 40 in india has taught me that I can as well throw them down the balcony.

I completely understand that. I've been in the same situation myself, however, you can't make apples become oranges. You don't throw more money in a dead end. It's smarter and cheaper to buy the same Yamaha PA speakers you liked rather than start messing with actives and different amps. Plus you can take them on your boat and have fun, they are robust.
 

newlash09

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Vladimir said:
newlash09 said:
Vladimir said:
insider9 said:
Midrange is where the magic happens so I'd focus on it. If you like how your PMC are voiced I'd look for a Class A solid state amp. That was my thinking before I shelved my project.

Waste of money. This is the second time he bought based on the 'wisdom' of reviews and jobos like us. It's the second time he doesn't like the more expensive audiophile speakers over the cheap cinema or PA ones. He plays disco and indian music.

I'd sell the PMCs and buy those Yamaha PAs. Yes, no one will be my forum friend and I'll get no pats on the back, but I'll bloody enjoy music the way I like it. 

But some way that I can salvage my investment so far will really help. Trying to sell the QA concept 40 in india has taught me that I can as well throw them down the balcony.

I completely understand that. I've been in the same situation myself, however, you can't make apples become oranges. You don't throw more money in a dead end. It's smarter and cheaper to buy the same Yamaha PA speakers you liked rather than start messing with actives and different amps. Plus you can take them on your boat and have fun, they are robust. 

I do understand. But those pmc's are my stand in kit to experiment. When I received them and found that the tweeter was blown and mid range dented I lost heart. But I've resolved to make them sound great again. And iam treading the same path. I loved those yamaha's no doubt. But I wish to get the best out of these PMC's too :)
 

newlash09

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This is my comparison :

1. The Yamaha were thicker in sound - probably can't be done much here, owing to driver size.

2. The Yamaha has better clarity. - this is what unsettles me. With superior investment in components, I thought the PMC's should have better clarity. But my friend tells me, he has superior cables at every step

Do they make so much of a difference really. Besides , what comforts me most , is that I tried his tracks on his system
...all slow rock types.playing off a Nas....nothing like the EDM I play from chrome cast
 

drummerman

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newlash09 said:
I've read that since an amp is designed to play over the whole audio spectrum from 20hz to upwards of 20khz. Design choices are made keeping budget in mind. Thus Amps , that perform well over the entire spectrum tend to be very expensive.

When considering an active speaker. Each amp driving a particukar driver is optimised for that driver. Thus effeciency and performance are better.

Are there amps out there with controls for setting the frequency bandwidth so that they can perform more optimally in that range.

Iam seriously considering a trip amping set up. So if I can set each amp to function within one frequency band, maybe they can perform better.

Is my thinking right.

Or when using active cross over to limit the frequency bandwidth, is the amp already seeing only a limited bandwidth and is already at its optimum. I know I sound vague and lost, which I actually am. Thanks for your help and suggestions

Is that much faffing around really going to get you more enjoyment?

Reads to me like a trip to HiFi hell...
 

newlash09

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Iam sure you are more experienced than me. Iam just trying to maximise the output of the pmc;s without having to resort to expensive amplification. Do you personally think its worth what i intend to undertake. Being in India, I really cant afford all those brystons here.
 

drummerman

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newlash09 said:
Iam sure you are more experienced than me. Iam just trying to maximise the output of the pmc;s without having to resort to expensive amplification. Do you personally think its worth what i intend to undertake. Being in India, I really cant afford all those brystons here.

Erm, no.
 

drummerman

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Do you want a nice, full and dynamic midrange, sweet highs and bouncy bass?

The sort of thing you can listen to for hours without having your ears taken off?
 

Blacksabbath25

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Vladimir said:
insider9 said:
Midrange is where the magic happens so I'd focus on it. If you like how your PMC are voiced I'd look for a Class A solid state amp. That was my thinking before I shelved my project.

Waste of money. This is the second time he bought based on the 'wisdom' of reviews and jobos like us. It's the second time he doesn't like the more expensive audiophile speakers over the cheap cinema or PA ones. He plays disco and indian music.

I'd sell the PMCs and buy those Yamaha PAs. Yes, no one will be my forum friend and I'll get no pats on the back, but I'll bloody enjoy music the way I like it.
very true Vladimir !

its better to own speakers that you in joy whether they cost £50 or £10.000 as long as you in joy what you have that’s all that matters as the last thing you want is to keep buying new speakers and new amplifiers every 5 seconds it not practical to do that .

I am afraid I am with Vladimir on this if you like the Yamaha speakers then get rid of the PMCs free up some cash buy the Yamaha speakers your be happier with your purchase and you should of demonstrate those PMCs before buying them .
 

newlash09

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It s not that iam not happy with the pmc's. Those yamaha's had a nice, thick warm signature which was probably tuned to the listening preferences of my host. I did get blown away on those tracks, but probably the pmc"s have their own strengths, like bass texture and speed that the yamaha"s can only dream off. So, I need more time, atleast a year, to get the pmc's at their best. And after a year, the yamaha;s will have their stregnths, and the pmcs their own
 

davedotco

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This is an area that I have some expertese, and your thread brings up some interesting points.

Fiirstly, in the case of passive and some 'integrated' active speakers, the crossovers do more than simply limiting the bandwidth of the signal to each drive unit. They provide other functions such as equalisation to adjust the raw response of the drive unit to suit a particular design, or to adjust response around the crossover point. Trying to emulate these functions with off the shelf electronic crossover units is next to impossible, properly constructed passive speakers are best left alone.

Then there is the difference between modern low eficiency designs such as the PMCs and the highly sensitive designs often used for pa and occasionally, studio speakers. The subjective difference can be enormous, as you have found, with the power and prescence of such speakers bring music 'to life' in a way that most hi-fi components can only hint at.

As has been pointed out, most of the differences that you heard are the result of the hi sensitivity approach, the classic 'bin and horn' approach definitely brings a lot to the table, sadly such designs are rare in hi-fi and any serious attempt at this kind of speaker tend to be expensive.
 

newlash09

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Fully agree with you. Even ive read that the cross over does more than just split frequencies. Hoping that since the pmc's come with three sets of binding posts, same should behave okay without the inbuilt cross over too :)
 

drummerman

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Get a high class, powerful valve amplifier, integrated or mono blocks from someone like Icon Audio. Sell the Halo.

My 2c's if you want to keep the PMC's.
 

davedotco

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newlash09 said:
Fully agree with you. Even ive read that the cross over does more than just split frequencies. Hoping that since the pmc's come with three sets of binding posts, same should behave okay without the inbuilt cross over too :)

These are often considered and usually shown in drawings to be a single fairly complex circuit, but they are in fact a number of individual 'filters' combined together. A speakers designed to be bi or tri wired, these filters are electrically and sometimes physically separated and connected between the appropriate input terminal and drive unit, thus the 'bass' terminals connect to the bass driver via the filter that rolls off the bass unit at higher frequencies, the 'tweeter' terminals are filtered to remove low frequencies etc, etc.

These filters, ie the crossover, is in circuit at all times whether you single, bi or tri wire, which is why it makes so little difference, you can use 3 amplifiers for bass, mid and treble if you wish, this is called passive tri-amping but since the crossover is still in place the improvements are unlikely to be worthwhile given the cost.

To truly activate your speakers, all the crossover circuits need to be removed and the drive units wired directly to the appropriate terminals, you then need to copy the exact functions of the passive crossover in an outboard electronic crossover, something best left to the experts. For example, Linn and Naim electronic crossovers are specific (sometimes by the use of dedicated boards or modules) to each speaker, a complex arrangement that explains why this kind of passive/active functionality is extremely rare.

Active speakers in the pro world are usually 'integrated' designs with the electronic crossover designed for that particular speaker only, it may equalise the drive units in a similar manner to passive crossovers but with all the advantages of line level operation, multiple amps and direct conection. There are a few pro monitors, usually in the higher price range where the drive units used are of such quality that they are essentially flat through their operating range, in these cases regular electronic crossovers can be used to the choice of the studio/owner.

Sorry for the length of this post, but hopefully it helps explain what you are getting into.
 

Vladimir

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drummerman said:
Get a high class, powerful valve amplifier, integrated or mono blocks from someone like Icon Audio. Sell the Halo.

My 2c's if you want to keep the PMC's.

And that will turn the PMCs into 'disco' speakers?
teeth_smile.png
 

newlash09

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davedotco said:
newlash09 said:
Fully agree with you. Even ive read that the cross over does more than just split frequencies. Hoping that since the pmc's come with three sets of binding posts, same should behave okay without the inbuilt cross over too :)

These are often considered and usually shown in drawings to be a single fairly complex circuit, but they are in fact a number of individual 'filters' combined together. A speakers designed to be bi or tri wired, these filters are electrically and sometimes physically separated and connected between the appropriate input terminal and drive unit, thus the 'bass' terminals connect to the bass driver via the filter that rolls off the bass unit at higher frequencies, the 'tweeter' terminals are filtered to remove low frequencies etc, etc.

These filters, ie the crossover, is in circuit at all times whether you single, bi or tri wire, which is why it makes so little difference, you can use 3 amplifiers for bass, mid and treble if you wish, this is called passive tri-amping but since the crossover is still in place the improvements are unlikely to be worthwhile given the cost.

To truly activate your speakers, all the crossover circuits need to be removed and the drive units wired directly to the appropriate terminals, you then need to copy the exact functions of the passive crossover in an outboard electronic crossover, something best left to the experts. For example, Linn and Naim electronic crossovers are specific (sometimes by the use of dedicated boards or modules) to each speaker, a complex arrangement that explains why this kind of passive/active functionality is extremely rare.

Active speakers in the pro world are usually 'integrated' designs with the electronic crossover designed for that particular speaker only, it may equalise the drive units in a similar manner to passive crossovers but with all the advantages of line level operation, multiple amps and direct conection. There are a few pro monitors, usually in the higher price range where the drive units used are of such quality that they are essentially flat through their operating range, in these cases regular electronic crossovers can be used to the choice of the studio/owner.

Sorry for the length of this post, but hopefully it helps explain what you are getting into.

That was very helpfull. And thought provoking too for me. I will start with passive tri-amping, and will then try active as a next step.Thanks again :)
 

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