do all amps sound the same?

[Overdose]

I really can't understand why so many around here herald actives to be the end game in hi-fi....

Not the end game for sure, but a step above passives.

The amplifiers in active speakers may seem compromised in isolation to you, but it is an academic point, as they are designed to work with only one driver in mind and that is the one they are attached to in the box, so if the drivers are the bottleneck, as you put it, they are not going to be better driven in a passive system than in an active one.

I think that you may be in danger of over analysing the situation.

 

[chebby]

I think that traditional 'dumb' domestic active speakers will disappear quicker than hi-fi seperates. You still need a pre-amp (often more expensive than an integrated amp) or a DAC with variable analogue outputs.

With the exception of the AVI offerings this means at least as much 'clutter' and boxes and cables as a passive system.

(And if they don't hang around hi-fi forums then AVI will be as much of a mystery to the average hi-fi customer as any other domestic active speaker so it's always going to remain very, very niche and expensive.)

In my opinion, the future of active systems (ones that approach 'mainstream' and appear in places like John Lewis as well as hi-fi shops) is being shown by companies like B&W with their active A5, A7 and new Z2 products that - used as designed - offer a high-fidelity standard that can exceed many seperates of the same value.

I am waiting for things like the B&W 'A9' or 'Z3' to appear with even bigger, better active innards and more DSP options.

I believe that the long-term future of good quality, domestic, active speaker systems is not with anything that includes two wooden boxes requiring stands and a mains lead each (whether they include a DAC or not).

 

[Overdose]

I think you're right, but there will always be a demand for a quality stereo system that images well, unless more mainstream products can create a stereo image somehow using DSP and projection, a bit like the tech used in soundbars.

Of course most people are not overly interested in hifi in the first place, we are not really a majority section of the AV buying population, never mind tech products in general.

 

[chebby]

I think you're right, but there will always be a demand for a quality stereo system that images well...

Less and less so as most people's lifestyles and living spaces change.

The living room/listening room with 'Dad' (it was always the dad) dictating an arrangement that permits him to sit in a perfect hi-fi 'sweetspot' with appropriately positioned speakers on stands (toed in and with specified distances behind, between and at the sides) is rapidly becoming quaint historical behaviour!

It assumes a pliant partner and a tacit agreement that hi-fi/AV determines the room and furniture arrangements and that the needs of everyone else in the household take second place to one person's hobby when it comes to the main living room.

Very few people actually live as families in houses any more. Hi-fi has to adapt to people living in smaller houses with smaller rooms, flats, apartments, studios, bedrooms etc. Lots of house sharing, lots of singles only or couples only occupancy.

'Dad' coming home from work, sitting down in a perfectly positioned armchair, with wife in kitchen cooking supper and keeping children out of his way while he enjoys his music alone is a very 1970s picture that I doubt exists in more than a small percentage of homes any more. It's more likely that he disappears to his study and cranks up Spotify while he does some more work on the computer.

Some people will object that that picture doesn't reflect their listening arrangements/home arrangements but - as I said - they are getting fewer in number every year.

 

[Overdose]

I think you're right, but there will always be a demand for a quality stereo system that images well...

Less and less so as most people's lifestyles and living spaces change.

The living room/listening room with 'Dad' (it was always the dad) dictating an arrangement that permits him to sit in a perfect hi-fi 'sweetspot' with appropriately positioned speakers on stands (toed in and with specified distances behind, between and at the sides) is rapidly becoming quaint historical behaviour!

It assumes a pliant partner and a tacit agreement that hi-fi/AV determines the room and furniture arrangements and that the needs of everyone else in the household take second place to one person's hobby when it comes to the main living room.

Very few people actually live as families in houses any more. Hi-fi has to adapt to people living in smaller houses with smaller rooms, flats, apartments, studios, bedrooms etc. Lots of house sharing, lots of singles only or couples only occupancy.

'Dad' coming home from work, sitting down in a perfectly positioned armchair, with wife in kitchen cooking supper and keeping children out of his way while he enjoys his music alone is a very 1970s picture that I doubt exists in more than a small percentage of homes any more. It's more likely that he disappears to his study and cranks up Spotify while he does some more work on the computer.

Some people will object that that picture doesn't reflect their listening arrangements/home arrangements but - as I said - they are getting fewer in number every year.

Whatever the reasons, the hifi market is shrinking. I'm quite ambivalent about the situation, but there will always be some sort of hifi solution for those wanting it.

 

[Electro]

The living room/listening room with 'Dad' (it was always the dad) dictating an arrangement that permits him to sit in a perfect hi-fi 'sweetspot' with appropriately positioned speakers on stands (toed in and with specified distances behind, between and at the sides) is rapidly becoming quaint historical behaviour!

'Dad' coming home from work, sitting down in a perfectly positioned armchair, with wife in kitchen cooking supper and keeping children out of his way while he enjoys his music alone is a very 1970s picture that I doubt exists in more than a small percentage of homes any more.

This describes me perfectly :rofl:

 

[Overdose]

The living room/listening room with 'Dad' (it was always the dad) dictating an arrangement that permits him to sit in a perfect hi-fi 'sweetspot' with appropriately positioned speakers on stands (toed in and with specified distances behind, between and at the sides) is rapidly becoming quaint historical behaviour!

'Dad' coming home from work, sitting down in a perfectly positioned armchair, with wife in kitchen cooking supper and keeping children out of his way while he enjoys his music alone is a very 1970s picture that I doubt exists in more than a small percentage of homes any more.

This describes me perfectly :rofl:

Maybe, but I didn't write that.

 

[chebby]

The living room/listening room with 'Dad' (it was always the dad) dictating an arrangement that permits him to sit in a perfect hi-fi 'sweetspot' with appropriately positioned speakers on stands (toed in and with specified distances behind, between and at the sides) is rapidly becoming quaint historical behaviour!

'Dad' coming home from work, sitting down in a perfectly positioned armchair, with wife in kitchen cooking supper and keeping children out of his way while he enjoys his music alone is a very 1970s picture that I doubt exists in more than a small percentage of homes any more.

This describes me perfectly :rofl:

Maybe, but I didn't write that.

Can people learn to quote properly please?

 

[chebby]

Whatever the reasons, the hifi market is shrinking. I'm quite ambivalent about the situation, but there will always be some sort of hifi solution for those wanting it.

"Some sort of hifi solution..." yes indeed.

"Shrinking"? Not so much. Just changing form and disappearing off the traditional hi-fi enthusiasts radar and being sold in non-specialist outlets and online.

I expect more companies to do like (for example) Ruark did and abandon their traditional speakers in favour of high quality radios and 'all-in-one' products.

I can see B&W abandoning the budget and mid-priced loudspeaker market one day and concentrating more and more on their networked/PC based one box systems (for the money) and just the very top end sector of traditional speakers (for the prestige and 'credentials').

Even Naim - I suspect - are making more money from their 'Uniti (networked/all-in-one) products than from any other range.

(I predict an amp-less UnitiQute type device with a pair of compact, class D active speakers from them one day, especially with the compact, active technology from Focal available to them. It'll be 'hi-fi' - without any doubt - but completely alien to their traditional customer base and far more likely to sell.)

 

[Electro]

The living room/listening room with 'Dad' (it was always the dad) dictating an arrangement that permits him to sit in a perfect hi-fi 'sweetspot' with appropriately positioned speakers on stands (toed in and with specified distances behind, between and at the sides) is rapidly becoming quaint historical behaviour!

'Dad' coming home from work, sitting down in a perfectly positioned armchair, with wife in kitchen cooking supper and keeping children out of his way while he enjoys his music alone is a very 1970s picture that I doubt exists in more than a small percentage of homes any more.

This describes me perfectly :rofl:

Maybe, but I didn't write that.

Can people learn to quote properly please?

Nothing has been added to the quote that was not there originally , I only cut out the unnecessary sections to save people having to read the whole post again .

I believe this is common practise :? if not then I will consider my wrist firmly smacked :shifty: .

 

[chebby]

Nothing has been added to the quote that was not there originally....

Except engineering it to look like Overdose wrote what I wrote.

I will assume I can quote you saying absolutely anything that someone else wrote from now on then?

 

[Dave_]

Nothing has been added to the quote that was not there originally , I only cut out the unnecessary sections to save people having to read the whole post again .

I believe this is common practise :? if not then I will consider my wrist firmly smacked :shifty: .

Yes but in doing so you also managed to remove the quote tags, i.e [ quote=chebby ] from the post making it look like Overdose had written it.

 

[BigH]

Yes but in doing so you also managed to remove the quote tags, i.e [ quote=chebby ] from the post making it look like Overdose had written it.

Nothing has been added.

Do you get it now?

 

[BigH]

Yes but in doing so you also managed to remove the quote tags, i.e [ quote=chebby ] from the post making it look like Overdose had written it.

Nothing has been added.

Do you get it now?

 

[Electro]

Ahh yes :doh:

 

[busb]

Which is not to say Naim is bad, on the contrary, I believe it to be very good, but it most certainly doesn't corner the market on musical reproduction, whilst everthing else is mere 'HiFi'; - it simply isn't true, and is yet another example of marketing hype playing upon the lack of knowledge and insecurities of audiophiles over and above any objective, verifiable and proveable fact.

JB

Something sounds great until until you hear better.......which is why it's great to see people come on here and talk about brands that are, well.....less talked about.

IMO. The single biggest mistake that people make when buying hifi, is narrowing their vision down to a couple of attention grabbing brands, thus ignoring some wonderful kit.

+1 !

 

[lindsayt]

I really can't understand why so many around here herald actives to be the end game in hi-fi....

Not the end game for sure, but a step above passives.

The amplifiers in active speakers may seem compromised in isolation to you, but it is an academic point, as they are designed to work with only one driver in mind and that is the one they are attached to in the box, so if the drivers are the bottleneck, as you put it, they are not going to be better driven in a passive system than in an active one.

I think that you may be in danger of over analysing the situation.

If active speakers are a step above passive speakers, how come they don't sound better than passive speakers?

 

[Ajani]

Here's an interview with Bob Carver, from the August 2008 issue of TAS, about The Carver Challenge:

Tell me about your ability to recreate the sound

in one amplifier of another amplifier of dissimilar

design using the transfer-function modification principle—

the so-called “Carver Challenge.”

I got myself in big trouble. In my youthful arrogance, I said,

“I can make my amplifier sound like anybody else’s amplifier

in the whole world, no matter what it’s made out of or how

it’s made.” I shouldn’t have said that. First of all, nobody

believed me, and everybody pooh-poohed me.

It did seem like an outrageous claim.

I know, I know. I wish I had been a little more circumspect. I

should have said “I can make my amplifier sound close . . . let

me show you and you be the judge.” And I think I wouldn’t

have upset people that way, but I didn’t do that because I

was young and arrogant. From my perspective, if two amplifiers

have the same output signal, and if you subtract the

two signals while they’re driving a load and there’s nothing

left, there’s no mechanism whereby they should sound different.

It’s the simple assertion that if A minus B equals

zero, then it follows that A equals B.

It was striking that you could do this in a matter of

hours, not weeks or months.

Well, I have a secret. I cheated. I practiced a lot before I

started! There’s a lot going on behind the curtain.

It leads you to question just how well he cloned the sound of the more expensive amps.

Other things to consider:

1) His cloned amps were notorious for being unreliable. So it's not as impressive to copy the sound of an expensive amp, if the clone won't last long.

2) What is Carver doing now? Selling expensive tube amps http://www.underwoodhifi.com/search/label/Bob%20Carver

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol...... so ultimately what I said is more or less true - the amp Bob started out with was not the amp he ended with.

reinforcing the point that much that some cherry pick off the internet to down play alot of what we hear with our own ears is rubbish and actually endorses the value of a publication like WHFS&V.

I can only guess the author of this piece had no clue whatsoever and has no concept of the meaning of budget when tagged to hifi. Funny thing is in the other thread 'How important is the PSU' - change that you may aswell change the amp seems to be the jist of what I'm getting.

do all amps sound the same.....lol.....no!