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Hifi is all the same?

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plus 1

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Dec 5, 2019
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Thanks. Unfortunately he seems to be a repeat offender, here and elsewhere.
he has strong opinions on hifi but that goes for all of us !

the problem lies when people who disagree start arguing but that happens on all forums...

there are "offenders", as you put it, on both sides but that's what you get during a debate.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
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I can see where you're coming from but applaud Yamaha by sticking to their guns and going for quality and reliability over everything else. Build an amplifier that's quality rather than following the masses and a streamer that may not be of brilliant quality and requires expensive work on developing software programming to get it to function.
There's enough streaming devices on the market already I feel.
When it comes to total value for money i spent i feel that i brought something really well made and should last me years and it sounds good to which is pretty hard to find products today that are built to this quality and sound great too
 
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matthewpiano

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2007
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Going back to the original question, I don't believe hi-fi all sounds the same.

I've been through a lot of kit of various makes and prices (as long term forum members will know), and beyond a recognisable 'house sound' shared by components from the same brand there has often been significant differences. On changing aspects of my system, these differences haven't always been positive, even when moving up in price. I've also owned flavour of the month products that just haven't done it for me.

Reviews are a good starting point. They offer an outline of the main characteristics of a product, and can provide useful information on features and build quality. This is all helpful in drawing up a demo shortlist before going to listen with your own ears and musical preferences.
 

shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
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Hi,
I think speakers definitely sound different - i have 3 pairs in use, and they all sound different (2 sealed enclosures, 1 transmission line).

Amplifiers can interact with the speaker differently, but for me, the differences are very minimal.

For sources, such as CD, then the filter options may make the sound different, but i don't hear differences between CD players/DAC's etc.

For cables, whether mains, speakers, analogue interconnects, or digital interconnects, then for me, they make absolutely no difference.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
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Adam W.

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2020
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The Yamaha/B&W system sounded quite bright. Lots of sibilance. I got the impression it would end up being quite fatiguing.

The McIntosh/Paradigm system didn't sound as bright. In fact, I thought it sounded flat and quite boring.

Of course, the room and the way the equipment was set up could have been playing a large part.

The employee, possibly owner, was quite offended when I let him know I wasn't impressed. I explained why and what I was looking for only for him to tell me I'm the only person to have not been wowed by those systems. He even questioned my hearing.

Perhaps other people aren't quite as honest or simply haven't experienced other HiFi. I don't know.

I should add that I don't have anything against any of the brands I've mentioned. I appreciate HiFi in general.
 
Last edited:

shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
152
88
18,670
The Yamaha/B&W system sounded quite bright. Lots of sibilance. I got the impression it would end up being quite fatiguing.

The McIntosh/Paradigm system didn't sound as bright. In fact, I thought it sounded flat and quite boring.

Of course, the room and the way the equipment was set up could have been playing a large part.

The employee, possibly owner, was quite offended when I let him know I wasn't impressed. I explained why and what I was looking for only for him to tell me I'm the only person to have not been wowed by those systems. He even questioned my hearing.

Perhaps other people aren't quite as honest or simply haven't experienced other HiFi. I don't know.
Hi,
You do come across as a complete b4st4rd. Just joking.

I think people who are not into hifi are amazed by any reasonable hifi, does not have to be esoteric or high end. People do get used to their hifi after a while - some people say the equipment is burning in, but i expect that this is just the person acclimatising to the sound.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
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matthewpiano

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2007
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That‘s surprising, as Yamaha gear is generally quite smooth sounding and should pair well with speakers similar to B&W
I have to say, I've tried my B&W 606s with the Yamaha RN602 receiver I have and it's not an ideal pairing IMO. It can sound OK with some things, but can err towards being on the thin side.
 
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Adam W.

Well-known member
Aug 19, 2020
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Thank you!

Honestly, I thought being completely honest was a good thing but maybe not. I'm not saying my gear is better than anyone else's. I know it's subjective.

Something that has surprised me about my HiFi is just how different each CD can sound.

It makes it hard for me to say what sort of sound my system has. It can sound warm, cool, dynamic, flat, analogue, digital, etc...

It seems to really depend on the source.
 
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shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
152
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18,670
Thank you!

Honestly, I thought being completely honest was a good thing but maybe not. I'm not saying my gear is better than anyone else's. I know it's subjective.

Something that has surprised me about my HiFi is just how different each CD can sound.

It makes it hard for me to say what sort of sound my system has. It can sound warm, cool, dynamic, flat, analogue, digital, etc...

It seems to really depend on the source.
Hi,
Being honest is probably the best approach, but as you know, every system will sound different, so you could add that yours is less "add the adjective".

I have CD's where some sound excellent, and others not very dynamic. It really does depend on the recording - and possibly the system itself too.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
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plus 1

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2019
865
146
570
Hi,
I think speakers definitely sound different - i have 3 pairs in use, and they all sound different (2 sealed enclosures, 1 transmission line).

Amplifiers can interact with the speaker differently, but for me, the differences are very minimal.

For sources, such as CD, then the filter options may make the sound different, but i don't hear differences between CD players/DAC's etc.

For cables, whether mains, speakers, analogue interconnects, or digital interconnects, then for me, they make absolutely no difference.

Regards,
Shadders.
may i ask what cables (mains, interconnect and speaker cable) do you use in your system now ?
 

shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
152
88
18,670
may i ask what cables (mains, interconnect and speaker cable) do you use in your system now ?
Hi,
The mains cables are the ones from the box the equipment came in, and the interconnects are good quality from Amazon, not any esoteric brands.

The speaker cables are 79strand. For my currently ongoing speaker project (active 3-way transmission line) i am using van-damme blue for internal wiring since it has a round sheath, and will use that for the amplifier to speakers too.

Regards,
Shadders.
 

plus 1

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2019
865
146
570
Hi,
The mains cables are the ones from the box the equipment came in, and the interconnects are good quality from Amazon, not any esoteric brands.

The speaker cables are 79strand. For my currently ongoing speaker project (active 3-way transmission line) i am using van-damme blue for internal wiring since it has a round sheath, and will use that for the amplifier to speakers too.

Regards,
Shadders.
thanks for the quick reply. so with passive loudspeakers you have never noticed any differences, even in the amount of bass, when swapping qed 79 strand speaker cable for say a thicker 500 strand + model ?
 

shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
152
88
18,670
thanks for the quick reply. so with passive loudspeakers you have never noticed any differences, even in the amount of bass, when swapping qed 79 strand speaker cable for say a thicker 500 strand + model ?
Hi,
The number of strands does not mean greater conduction, since the strands could be ultra thin. What matters is the cross-sectional area, which determines the resistance. All the resistance does is drop a voltage, and the lower the resistance, the smaller the voltage drop.

For a specific cable, the higher resistance cable will drop the higher voltage, so all you do is turn up the volume. The drop of QED 79 strand and an 8ohm load is 1/500th, where 499/500 volts is across the speaker and 1/500 volts is across the cable.

The cable with the QED 79 strand has no effect on the bass. The only way to affect the bass is with a severely badly engineered cable.

Regards,
Shadders.
 

plus 1

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2019
865
146
570
Hi,
The number of strands does not mean greater conduction, since the strands could be ultra thin. What matters is the cross-sectional area, which determines the resistance. All the resistance does is drop a voltage, and the lower the resistance, the smaller the voltage drop.

For a specific cable, the higher resistance cable will drop the higher voltage, so all you do is turn up the volume. The drop of QED 79 strand and an 8ohm load is 1/500th, where 499/500 volts is across the speaker and 1/500 volts is across the cable.

The cable with the QED 79 strand has no effect on the bass. The only way to affect the bass is with a severely badly engineered cable.

Regards,
Shadders.
once again loving the detailed non sarcastic replies. when i replaced the thin (qed 79 type) cable i had with the much thicker (more strands lower resistance ?) cable talk cable i had 20 years ago, more bass was the first thing i noticed - my 2 brothers noticed this as well ! the bass, was not more detailed or tuneful, but i just had more of it. it was like turning the bass control on the (sony) amp to the max which is what i had already done !
 

shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
152
88
18,670
once again loving the detailed non sarcastic replies. when i replaced the thin (qed 79 type) cable i had with the much thicker (more strands lower resistance ?) cable talk cable i had 20 years ago, more bass was the first thing i noticed - my 2 brothers noticed this as well ! the bass, was not more detailed or tuneful, but i just had more of it. it was like turning the bass control on the (sony) amp to the max which is what i had already done !
Hi,
Any variation from copper 79 strand to another higher strand cable will have only a resistive effect. The inductance can change, but 79 strand inductance is already very low, and the resistive element will dominate.

The change that was heard will probably be the placebo effect - a cable change can not cause such an effect. The cable is linear - there is no difference between the input signal and output signal apart from the slight voltage change - a null test can confirm this.

Regards,
Shadders.
 
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plus 1

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2019
865
146
570
Hi,
Any variation from copper 79 strand to another higher strand cable will have only a resistive effect. The inductance can change, but 79 strand inductance is already very low, and the resistive element will dominate.

The change that was heard will probably be the placebo effect - a cable change can not cause such an effect. The cable is linear - there is no difference between the input signal and output signal apart from the slight voltage change - a null test can confirm this.

Regards,
Shadders.
thing is we all heard the difference !
any views on the thread i posted titled
"instant speaker cable test ?"
its buried down the forum list and has had no replies as of yet (?).
 

shadders

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2009
152
88
18,670
thing is we all heard the difference !
any views on the thread i posted titled
"instant speaker cable test ?"
its buried down the forum list and has had no replies as of yet (?).
Hi,
The changes heard will be the placebo effect. Whenever people are asked to do a blind test, they always say they need to see the change (which cable) for them to re-affirm their subjective opinion. If you did a blind test, you will not have been able to determine the difference.

Many subjectivists state that they are immune to the placebo effect.

The reason no one responded to the cable thread is because it has been done many times - it causes vociferous arguments.

I have tried everything - bi-wiring, expensive interconnects, the green pen on the side of a CD, and no difference what so ever.

I designed and built my own DAC - and no different to the Cambridge Audio DVD player i have (which has excellent DAC IC's).

Regards,
Shadders.
 

Secretagentmole

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
25
12
45
If people spend £20,000 on a system they automatically think that it will blow a £3,500 system out of the water.
Sometimes it will sometimes it won't.
And it's also called hi fi snobbery.
Just blown £20 upgrading mother's hifi, ditched the Denon DP200 for a Dual 503 mk 1....
 

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