Hifi is all the same?

[Deleted member 188516]

Perfect for those rich spods for whom hifi is for showing off their super expensive kit to their rich mates, rather than for listening to music.

As for filters, my M-DAC had 7 filters which were hard to tell apart. I just ended up using the one recommended in reviews. My Pathos Converto has no user selectable filters, it just works and, I don't feel as though I'm missing out by not having filters.

i agree but the nordost product makes the russ andrews prices almost seem sane !
the idea behind the filters is that (they are supposed to) sound different hence its like having 4 cd players in one. there were 4 filter settings on the sony cd player i owned and i can remember the 1999 what hifi mag review stating they felt the "standard" setting being the "best". i know of people owning more than 1 cd player hooked up to the same amp - 1 for his rock / dance music and one for his acoustic material...multiple filter settings, tone controls call them what you will would eliminate this. it would be like having a new cd player every time you changed settings...as long as you could hear the differences of course !

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

how about one on these instead ?

Nordost Odin 2 Mains Cable

Nordost Odin Supreme Reference Power Cord When you are striving for the last, tiniest nuance of musical detail, the uninhibited full-range dynamics and explosive impact of a great crescendo, every little bit counts. Conceptual elegance Optimum materials and construction The latest and best...

www.analogueseduction.net

Jesus! - they want more than £30k for a 5m one!

Quoting plus 1 - i agree but the nordost product makes the russ andrews prices almost seem sane !

No, it doesn't!

 

[Al ears]

Jesus! - they want more than £30k for a 5m one!

Quoting plus 1 - i agree but the nordost product makes the russ andrews prices almost seem sane !

No, it doesn't!

Insane prices are all relative, as an oil sheikh I think they are perfectly acceptable.....
Also my personal advisor has assured me that this wonderful cable will make sad my hifi system instantly wonderful.....

 

[shadders]

Insane prices are all relative, as an oil sheikh I think they care perfectly acceptable.....
Also my personal advisor has assured me that this wonderful cable will make sad my hifi system instantly wonderful.....

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Jesus! - they want more than £30k for a 5m one!

Quoting plus 1 - i agree but the nordost product makes the russ andrews prices almost seem sane !

No, it doesn't!

i did say "almost" !

 

[Romulus]

Insane prices are all relative, as an oil sheikh I think they care perfectly acceptable.....
Also my personal advisor has assured me that this wonderful cable will make sad my hifi system instantly wonderful.....

Are you being ironic in the above statement...?

 

[Al ears]

Are you being ironic in the above statement...?

Only a tad. I didn't spell check it very well either.

 

[plastic penguin]

In a Utopian world where all things are equal, then yes all amps sound the same. But we don't live in a perfect world: How a amp delivers the current/power to tonal differences to system matching and room size and acoustics, including white noise, all has an impact on how we hear a piece of kit.

Based on that logic, all amps don't sound the same.

 

[TrevC]

Dishonesty is rife in the Hifi cable industry because without it nobody would buy any of this stuff. It's also disappointing that WHF helps them sell them with their clueless cable reviews.

 

[TrevC]

In a Utopian world where all things are equal, then yes all amps sound the same. But we don't live in a perfect world: How a amp delivers the current/power to tonal differences to system matching and room size and acoustics, including white noise, all has an impact on how we hear a piece of kit.

Based on that logic, all amps don't sound the same.

Amplifiers that test the same have to sound the same.

 

[shadders]

Amplifiers that test the same have to sound the same.

Hi,
Yes, this was proved by Bob carver in his amplifier modelling :

Bob Carver - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

To counter this, in Hifi News i saw two MOSFET amplifiers that had near identical THD profiles (tested about 1 year apart), and one score was low 80's and the other was above mid 70's. The above mid 70's score was one of the worst scores i have seen in Hifi News.

Regards,
Shadders.

 

[abacus]

Amplifiers that test the same have to sound the same.

Not that simple as although amplifiers can measure the same (Although in reality no 2 amps (Even of the same design) will ever sound the same, (Components vary in quality with usually the more you pay the more consistent they are) as it is determined by the speakers that are connected to them. (All amplifiers react differently to different speakers unless the speakers offer a pure resistive load)

This is why you must always, without exception, try out various combinations to see what suits you.

Bill

 

[Friesiansam]

Hi,
For EMI, or specifically wifi affecting your hifi, this is not an issue either. All interconnects have a screen, the PSU has sufficient components to reject any wifi signal induced in the power lead. Most equipment cases are metal which naturally rejects any wifi signal.

If anyone is really worried about wifi and their equipment, or cables, just wrap them in tin foil. No need to buy £1k+ special cables, just a normal cable with bacofoil, and you are sorted.

OK, the last sentence is sort of comical, but a few quid on tin foil will block any EMI. Just to be sure, you could double wrap it.

Regards,
Shadders.

Added to which, the energy level of wifi transmissions is very low, MUCH lower than the energy output from your mobile phone's transmitter.

 

[Romulus]

If every amplifier sounded the same, might as well discontinue Hi Fi/Audio shows and exhibitions....

 

[plastic penguin]

Amplifiers that test the same have to sound the same.

In the real world they don't.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

In the real world they don't.

maybe the "test(s)" don't actually tell us everything as regards to how an amplifier actually sounds or, even, everything a human can actually hear ?

 

[Deleted member 108165]

And all ears are different... we are not machines and therein lies the differences we hear.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I'm not entirely sure about the logic of that - I agree that we almost certainly hear things differently, but that would mean that persons X & Y hear a given setup differently. If two systems did actually sound the same, both would hear them as sounding the same, they would just be hearing two different versions of the same thing (if that makes any sort of coherent sense) - unless the systems do actually sound different, which in my experience they do!

(My changes to CD, pre-amp and power amp were apparent, and anyone who says it's all in my mind is a (to put it mildly) arrogantly presumptuous!)

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

maybe the "test(s)" don't actually tell us everything as regards to how an amplifier actually sounds or, even, everything a human can actually hear ?

I wonder whether testing methodologies aren't too simple - signal attenuation at different, discrete frequencies etc. It must surely be more intricate when we get to the great complexity of a dense piece of music. I suppose it's because most testing is looking at gear in isolation - but it should be possible to play the same recording through two pieces of equipment and analyse differences between them in a properly rigorous manner.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

And all ears are different... we are not machines and therein lies the differences we hear.

genuine question. why do companies resort to listening tests, finally, after completing rigorous measurement tests ?

 

[plastic penguin]

maybe the "test(s)" don't actually tell us everything as regards to how an amplifier actually sounds or, even, everything a human can actually hear ?

You've answered your own question.

 

[plastic penguin]

And all ears are different... we are not machines and therein lies the differences we hear.

Indeed. That's my point. Why do we hear different things? Whole raft of different reasons as I mentioned earlier. That's why I've always said hi-fi is not an exact science.

Room size/acoustics, system synergy, white noise. personal taste, genres preferred....

 

[nopiano]

genuine question. why do companies resort to listening tests, finally, after completing rigorous measurement tests ?

I’m sure most of them can tell a great deal from listening, and often the process will be iterative as part of refining the design - and then turning it into production.
Ultimately, listening is what the customer does. The measurements are for design and consistency purposes above everything.

 

[Gonepostal]

I've always been of the opinion that as long as an amp has enough power to drive a pair of speakers in your room, you won't tell the difference between amps. Has anyone done a blind test in their room and been able to pick out different amps?

 

[abacus]

I've always been of the opinion that as long as an amp has enough power to drive a pair of speakers in your room, you won't tell the difference between amps. Has anyone done a blind test in their room and been able to pick out different amps?

You are absolutely correct, however those types of amps are very expensive and out of the reach of most users, and yes, you can tell the difference in a double blind test on lower range amps, (using the same speakers) with the differences diminishing as you go further up the level, (The more expensive amps tend to have more beefy power supplies and output stages, thus they are not so influenced by the speakers load characteristics)

A double blind test with different combinations will also make sure that the combination you choose is not influenced by other things, however unless put in a cupboard the looks also subconsciously play a part.

TIP: When you go for a demo (Even if it’s just at a dealer’s showroom) just listen to the combinations, and when you just sit back in the sofa and relax then that is probably the best combination for you. (Don’t buy anything that has even the slightest annoyance to you as it will get worse over time and you will wish you never bought it)

Bill