Hifi is all the same?

[Deleted member 108165]

genuine question. why do companies resort to listening tests, finally, after completing rigorous measurement tests ?

Erm... to make sure it sounds like a hi-fi and not a cheap boombox, Simon.

 

[TrevC]

Erm... to make sure it sounds like a hi-fi and not a cheap boombox, Simon.

If it meets the spec of a quality hifi amplifier only lousy speakers can make it sound like a cheap boombox. Amplifiers are the one thing that can be bought without a listening test.

 

[TrevC]

If every amplifier sounded the same, might as well discontinue Hi Fi/Audio shows and exhibitions....

Nobody said that all amplifiers sound the same.

 

[Al ears]

If it meets the spec of a quality hifi amplifier only lousy speakers can make it sound like a cheap boombox. Amplifiers are the one thing that can be bought without a listening test.

Possibly simply because you never listen to an amplifier in isolation.......
However, this is far removed from the question in the original post that said 'Hifi is all the same?', now it didn't say amplifiers and all hifi is clearly not the same.

 

[Deleted member 188516]

Erm... to make sure it sounds like a hi-fi and not a cheap boombox, Simon.

yes but what are they listening for that the measurements don't show them ?

edit : bearing in mind our ears are subject to placebo effect, expectant bias and generally "work differently" due to changes in blood pressure, air pressure etc...

 

[Pueblo_Boy]

Interesting comments, but I think the new Houdini decoupler from The Funk Firm is going to blow a lot of conceptions out of the water, at least with regard to what tonearms do! I haven't seen any measurements yet to back up the claims that everyone - everyone! - who has heard it have made, but for sure someone will solve that little riddle. Whilst we can all agree to disagree on various sounds using different kit, it does appear so far that the Houdini is manna from heaven for everyone! Can't wait to see for myself...

 

[Al ears]

Interesting comments, but I think the new Houdini decoupler from The Funk Firm is going to blow a lot of conceptions out of the water, at least with regard to what tonearms do! I haven't seen any measurements yet to back up the claims that everyone - everyone! - who has heard it have made, but for sure someone will solve that little riddle. Whilst we can all agree to disagree on various sounds using different kit, it does appear so far that the Houdini is manna from heaven for everyone! Can't wait to see for myself...

Get someone to fit it without you knowing then let us know if you hear any difference.......

 

[Secretagentmole]

The other half has just done Rupert (the Little Bear T7) in. She bought a Cambridge Audio 540P, which does not sound as warm but has a lot more detail in the mid and upper ranges...

 

[Friesiansam]

Interesting comments, but I think the new Houdini decoupler from The Funk Firm is going to blow a lot of conceptions out of the water, at least with regard to what tonearms do! I haven't seen any measurements yet to back up the claims that everyone - everyone! - who has heard it have made, but for sure someone will solve that little riddle. Whilst we can all agree to disagree on various sounds using different kit, it does appear so far that the Houdini is manna from heaven for everyone! Can't wait to see for myself...

Get someone to fit it without you knowing then let us know if you hear any difference.......

I suspect it amounts to a rubbery shim.

Found a price for it on an American site, $400! Must be good, extravagant claims made for it and, it's expensive...

 

[Al ears]

I suspect it amounts to a rubbery shim.

Found a price for it on an American site, $400! Must be good, extravagant claims made for it and, it's expensive...

It's £300 here in UK and might be worth it, who knows

 

[Friesiansam]

It's £300 here in UK and might be worth it, who knows

Personally, I think it's made from the same kind of snake oil as speaker cable supports or lifts.

 

[Al ears]

Personally, I think it's made from the same kind of snake oil as speaker cable supports or lifts.

You are,of course, entitled to your own opinion.

 

[Romulus]

If all HiFi was just built on measurements maybe it would get closer to sounding the same, of course other factors have to be replicated as well,,

 

[TotalVictim]

This arises from the other thread and is an interesting construct I’ve always thought.

If you buy a robin reliant it’s a good car as you prefer and like it, but if you own a ford focus, it’s also a good car as you like and prefer it. But which is best? Most people know the answer!

In hifi this concept of mixing preference with actual performance is wrong because there isn’t much difference to the sound of different hifi within sound quality brackets - it’s not like fine wine. The range of preference as to what sounds good, is quite narrow which goes against the connoisseur notion of hifi.

Ok but hifi is subjective? But is it? How much subjectivity is there between a more detailed, responsive and dynamic amp then a lesser one in these areas. I’ve often had this with friends round when I’ve reviewed gear for pretty much all to say a particular pair of headphones are rubbish.

I think this is problematic for hifi as not only can some hifi reviewers make them the same, qualitatively, but consumers owning them will say the same because of buying egos, and then dealers because of the sales motivation. At the end of the day, it’s hard to get what is best taking out sonic preference (warm,neutral etc) and be directed to the best products. Btw I think what hifi are one of the best with credibility as they have a strong base.

so is hifi all the same?

I am pleased that WHF decided to "unban" you. What were they thinking?

 

[TrevC]

Why do people say Robin Reliant??? Do they say Focus Ford or Astra Vauxhall?

 

[Utterchaos23]

I suspect it amounts to a rubbery shim.

Hi all,

Full disclosure: I have a Houdini on trial direct from Arthur because I am local to him. I am not part of Funk and not being paid for reviewing. I'm posting to help the forum users with some actuals, without offering an opinion, for fear of being accused of being biased.

I't looks rubbery, but is not. It has rigid upper and lower plates that are joint by some kind of dampened mechanical isolation. The upper and lower plates are screwed to the headshell and cart independently of each other.

The perfect tonearm will not influence the sound from the cart. The Houdini is designed to remove the negative influence the less "high-end" tonearms (sub £2k?) have on the cart.

There is loads more info on Funk Firm's Facebook group if you're interested. Or PM me 🙂

Thanks all,

James

 

[Al ears]

Hi all,

Full disclosure: I have a Houdini on trial direct from Arthur because I am local to him. I am not part of Funk and not being paid for reviewing. I'm posting to help the forum users with some actuals, without offering an opinion, for fear of being accused of being biased.

I't looks rubbery, but is not. It has rigid upper and lower plates that are joint by some kind of dampened mechanical isolation. The upper and lower plates are screwed to the headshell and cart independently of each other.

The perfect tonearm will not influence the sound from the cart. The Houdini is designed to remove the negative influence the less "high-end" tonearms (sub £2k?) have on the cart.

There is loads more info on Funk Firm's Facebook group if you're interested. Or PM me 🙂

Thanks all,

James

I am assuming it does what it does irrespective of tonearm cost.......
If it's effects are more noticeable on cheaper set-ups then surely a cartridge upgrade might be more appropriate.
I would try one but think it might be difficult to sell on if I didn't see significant improvements

 

[Utterchaos23]

I am assuming it does what it does irrespective of tonearm cost.......
If it's effects are more noticeable on cheaper set-ups then surely a cartridge upgrade might be more appropriate.
I would try one but think it might be difficult to sell on if I didn't see significant improvements

Trying to tread carefully here, but I have a Rega P3. Once my cart (Elys 2) was isolated, to me, it sounded much better. I haven also upgraded the cart to a AT VM540ML and it is another leap forward. I backwards tested to the AT without the Houdini and, to me and my wife, most of the sonic improvements were lost. My next upgrade to consider would be an even better cart as I now know the rest of my set-up could showcase it.

Another fact (not opinion) but there's no need to worry about selling on as there is a full money back guarantee.

 

[Al ears]

Trying to tread carefully here, but I have a Rega P3. Once my cart (Elys 2) was isolated, to me, it sounded much better. I haven also upgraded the cart to a AT VM540ML and it is another leap forward. I backwards tested to the AT without the Houdini and, to me and my wife, most of the sonic improvements were lost. My next upgrade to consider would be an even better cart as I now know the rest of my set-up could showcase it.

Another fact (not opinion) but there's no need to worry about selling on as there is a full money back guarantee.

I am curious as to how you adjusted the VTA by the required amount on your P3 and where exactly it says there's a full money back guarantee.

 

[Utterchaos23]

I am curious as to how you adjusted the VTA by the required amount on your P3 and where exactly it says there's a full money back guarantee.

Funk have spacers, best contact Funk directly.

 

[nopiano]

Funk have spacers, best contact Funk directly.

So that’s half the answer. Did you fit your spacers?

Where is the money back guarantee?

 

[TrevC]

If all HiFi was just built on measurements maybe it would get closer to sounding the same, of course other factors have to be replicated as well,,

It's easier to find differences using testing than it is by listening. For example one amplifier may have 100 watts output and one 20 watts, but if you aren't playing music loud enough you wouldn't be able to tell.

 

[TrevC]

Trying to tread carefully here, but I have a Rega P3. Once my cart (Elys 2) was isolated, to me, it sounded much better. I haven also upgraded the cart to a AT VM540ML and it is another leap forward. I backwards tested to the AT without the Houdini and, to me and my wife, most of the sonic improvements were lost. My next upgrade to consider would be an even better cart as I now know the rest of my set-up could showcase it.

Another fact (not opinion) but there's no need to worry about selling on as there is a full money back guarantee.

With cartridges it's the profile of the stylus that makes the biggest difference IMO.

 

[Utterchaos23]

So that’s half the answer. Did you fit yours?

Where is the money back guarantee?

Hi, yes, I'm a complete novice (never even removed a cart before!) but I quite happily fit my Houdini and the 6mm spacer.

Arthur K, the designer, post the guarantee himself on another forum, but you can contact Funk to verify.

Sorry, if I'm being short and vague, I'm not usually like this, I'm just trying not to get too involved due to me testing the device.