Do Bottle Necks Exists In HiFi Systems

[Oxfordian]

It’s the ratio of the amplifier’s output impendance to the impedance of the speakers.
So, an output impedance of 0.1 ohm into typical 8 ohms speakers, would be represented as a damping factor of 80.

Although higher damping factors can sound ‘tighter’ with certain speakers - ironically, not so relevant with your sealed box ATCs - it’s largely irrelevant. However, Hegel aren’t alone in making a big play of it.

Valve amps do have higher output impedances, generally, as hence have a different sound.

As to which amp to sample, ATCs own SIA-150 would be an obvious choice, or the more affordable 100.

Thanks for the update on the Damping factor, appreciated.

The dealer I mention does have the ATC amplifiers, are they any good? I sort of put ATC in a 'Speakers' box and not look at other bits of HiFi they produce. I'm a bit like that with Rega as well they fit in the turntable box, certainly after demo'ing some of their CD players and Amps a couple of years ago I wouldn't rush to buy outside the TT range.

Maybe I need to take the blinkers off and see just what's around.

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks for the update on the Damping factor, appreciated.

The dealer I mention does have the ATC amplifiers, are they any good? I sort of put ATC in a 'Speakers' box and not look at other bits of HiFi they produce. I'm a bit like that with Rega as well they fit in the turntable box, certainly after demo'ing some of their CD players and Amps a couple of years ago I wouldn't rush to buy outside the TT range.

Maybe I need to take the blinkers off and see just what's around.

ATC amps have always received good reviews.

ATC SIA2-100 review

ATC serves up an engaging and capable stereo amplifier

www.whathifi.com

I'd be careful, the dealer might try to persuade you to upgrade the speakers to something like the SCM12 and/or19.

This is just cynical old me.

 

[Oxfordian]

ATC amps have always received good reviews.

ATC SIA2-100 review

ATC serves up an engaging and capable stereo amplifier

www.whathifi.com

I'd be careful, the dealer might try to persuade you to upgrade the speakers to something like the SCM12 and/or19.

This is just cynical old me.

Thanks, there are no speaker upgrades planned for the HiFi at present, focus is simply on the source and amplifier, I'm going along your train of thought that a bit more controlled oomph in the power stakes may just get a bit more out of the 7's.

However if ATC or the dealer wanted to throw in a pair of 11's or 19's as a buy one item get the second half price then I might be tempted.

I'll do some research on the ATC amps.

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks, there are no speaker upgrades planned for the HiFi at present, focus is simply on the source and amplifier, I'm going along your train of thought that a bit more controlled oomph in the power stakes may just get a bit more out of the 7's.

However if ATC or the dealer wanted to throw in a pair of 11's or 19's as a buy one item get the second half price then I might be tempted.

I'll do some research on the ATC amps.

Fair play.

Decades of dealer experience has made me cynical, that's why tend generally to stick to two trusted dealers. You just have to make it clear exactly what components you're interested in and stick firmly to your budget.

 

[matthewpianist]

Sorry to throw something else into the mix, but I suggest you also consider Musical Fidelity - the M6500i. Top-drawer build and the ability to drive pretty much anything in a musically engaging way. The only potential issue is that you may find the combination with your ATCs too neutral, but you won't know if you don't try, and the MF will certainly grip them beautifully.

Whatever you go for, audition in your own system and, once you've shortened the list, in your own listening space. It takes an extended listening session to really understand what a new component is bringing to your enjoyment.

 

[Gray]

...you may find the combination with your ATCs too neutral

Obviously you're treating 'neutral' as a negative there Matthew and you're certainly not alone.
I know that, to many neutral is the opposite of 'musical' - which is another way of saying enjoyable I suppose.

I can only say that, to me, neutral is enjoyable - it's impossible for anything to be too neutral for me.
(Too bright, yes....too dull, certainly, but too neutral, never).

 

[matthewpianist]

Obviously you're treating 'neutral' as a negative there Matthew and you're certainly not alone.
I know that, to many neutral is the opposite of 'musical' - which is another way of saying enjoyable I suppose.

I can only say that, to me, neutral is enjoyable - it's impossible for anything to be too neutral for me.
(Too bright, yes....too dull, certainly, but too neutral, never).

Neutral isn't at all negative to me, I'm just aware that it is to some people.

 

[plastic penguin]

Not sure if it's me but a few years ago a number of people were changing their neutral equipment for a smoother presentation, and there was a period where some new forum members were complaining about how shrill their NAD 352 were with B&Ws.

Recently I started a thread "Bright/Neutral/smooth, I was surprised by some of the replies given my above comments.

 

[Oxfordian]

Sorry to throw something else into the mix, but I suggest you also consider Musical Fidelity - the M6500i. Top-drawer build and the ability to drive pretty much anything in a musically engaging way. The only potential issue is that you may find the combination with your ATCs too neutral, but you won't know if you don't try, and the MF will certainly grip them beautifully.

Whatever you go for, audition in your own system and, once you've shortened the list, in your own listening space. It takes an extended listening session to really understand what a new component is bringing to your enjoyment.

Don't be sorry, this is the feedback that I want, I have no issues investigating any of the suggestions made, not crossed my mind to look at Musical Fidelity, so why not have a look. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Oxfordian]

Obviously you're treating 'neutral' as a negative there Matthew and you're certainly not alone.
I know that, to many neutral is the opposite of 'musical' - which is another way of saying enjoyable I suppose.

I can only say that, to me, neutral is enjoyable - it's impossible for anything to be too neutral for me.
(Too bright, yes....too dull, certainly, but too neutral, never).

Hmm, what is neutral, musical, bright and warm? I've never really understood these terms, I just go with what I like during a good long audition.

During the auditioning process for my system I tried a Rega CD and Rega Amp combination, whilst initially i liked the sound which got me tapping my feet and nodding my head I began to realise that the combination was very much a party animal and it became very wearing very quickly.

A Quad Amp/CD combo (Solus?) had anyone with a mild lisp on their 'S's' hissing like a a very angry snake.

Now I don't know how these system auditions would be categorised but I didn't like them.

 

[Gray]

Not sure if it's me but a few years ago a number of people were changing their neutral equipment for a smoother presentation, and there was a period where some new forum members were complaining about how shrill their NAD 352 were with B&Ws.

Recently I started a thread "Bright/Neutral/smooth, I was surprised by some of the replies given my above comments.

Some people have an aversion to normal (non-bright, neutral) treble.

Never mind hi-fi, day-to-day high frequency sounds must be tricky for them

 

[plastic penguin]

Some people have an aversion to normal (non-bright, neutral) treble.

Never mind hi-fi, day-to-day high frequency sounds must be tricky for them

Possibly right Gray.

A few years ago they were possibly looking for Class A or warmer sounding AB amps. That seems to have subsided more recently. Perhaps people's lugs have now adapted to neutral-bright kit.

 

[WayneKerr]

What about a pair of ATC actives? Two birds with one stone Might be worth a try if you can find a dealer who has them.

Edit: Oxford Audio Consultants - demo can be booked according to the website.

 

[Oxfordian]

What about a pair of ATC actives? Two birds with one stone Might be worth a try if you can find a dealer who has them.

Edit: Oxford Audio Consultants - demo can be booked according to the website.

Shame I don't live in Oxford

 

[WayneKerr]

Shame I don't live in Oxford

Ah, I see. I thought your username was your locale

 

[nopiano]

Thanks, there are no speaker upgrades planned for the HiFi at present, focus is simply on the source and amplifier, I'm going along your train of thought that a bit more controlled oomph in the power stakes may just get a bit more out of the 7's.

However if ATC or the dealer wanted to throw in a pair of 11's or 19's as a buy one item get the second half price then I might be tempted.

I'll do some research on the ATC amps.

Ironically there was a very nice 150 amp on eBay recently. It only got one bid and went for a very modest £1500. A total bargain, and I was tempted myself!

Maybe think of it that ATC‘s real strength is their active speakers. What you get with their amps is those ingredients in a stylish box - as long as you don’t insist on black finish.

 

[plastic penguin]

Maybe think of it that ATC‘s real strength is their active speakers. What you get with their amps is those ingredients in a stylish box - as long as you don’t insist on black finish.

This is potentially opening up a can of worms. Let's see which way they wriggle. 🙂

 

[Oxfordian]

Ah, I see. I thought your username was your locale

Oxfordian by birth

 

[Gray]

Hmm, what is neutral, musical, bright and warm?

As proved by PPs thread on the subject, people have their own interpretations.
To me, neutral is midway between warm and bright.
'Musical' seems to be a universally positive comment - used by some as the opposite of 'clinical'.
I think some describe warmer than neutral as musical.

Musical to me is when everything comes together - a well recorded track suits the system - no aspect of the music is missing or emphasised, your attention is completely on the music rather than the equipment.

It seems you found the Quad CD/amp combo to be anything but musical ☹️

 

[Oxfordian]

Ironically there was a very nice 150 amp on eBay recently. It only got one bid and went for a very modest £1500. A total bargain, and I was tempted myself!

Maybe think of it that ATC‘s real strength is their active speakers. What you get with their amps is those ingredients in a stylish box - as long as you don’t insist on black finish.

Fair point and I am not adverse to any colour, my TT is white, so yes a silver ATC amp would be rather nice and the 100 is nowhere near as pricey as a Hegel H190, the 150 is a bit above the Hegel. The 100 also allows me to keep my existing set up as it has a built in DAC, I can upgrade that at a later date if I wanted to, and I have a Rega Fono as my phono stage for now. If I went for the 150 I would have to factor in the cost of an external DAC.

But yes, food for thought, thanks.

 

[Oxfordian]

As proved by PPs thread on the subject, people have their own interpretations.
To me, neutral is midway between warm and bright.
'Musical' seems to be a universally positive comment - used by some as the opposite of 'clinical'.
I think some describe warmer than neutral as musical.

Musical to me is when everything comes together - a well recorded track suits the system - no aspect of the music is missing or emphasised, your attention is completely on the music rather than the equipment.

It seems you found the Quad CD/amp combo to be anything but musical ☹️

I wanted to like that Quad set-up so much it was just so cool, but it just wasn't to be, I think with a different set of speakers the result might have been different.

 

[Gray]

I wanted to like that Quad set-up so much it was just so cool, but it just wasn't to be, I think with a different set of speakers the result might have been different.

You're proving the importance of auditioning 👍

 

[plastic penguin]

I wanted to like that Quad set-up so much it was just so cool, but it just wasn't to be, I think with a different set of speakers the result might have been different.

Just proves one size doesn't fit all.

Had the same with Rega, fantastic amps and CDPs but couldn't get them to work well enough in my kit.

That's why I don't pester posters with Leema. If the budget and connectivity matches a person's needs and it'll just be "go and demo".

 

[plastic penguin]

You're proving the importance of auditioning 👍

Yep, certainly does.

 

[nopiano]

Fair point and I am not adverse to any colour, my TT is white, so yes a silver ATC amp would be rather nice and the 100 is nowhere near as pricey as a Hegel H190, the 150 is a bit above the Hegel. The 100 also allows me to keep my existing set up as it has a built in DAC, I can upgrade that at a later date if I wanted to, and I have a Rega Fono as my phono stage for now. If I went for the 150 I would have to factor in the cost of an external DAC.

But yes, food for thought, thanks.

Yes, I’d overlooked the DAC aspect. The SIA 100 is an easy choice then, as long as you can hear it first. (Or Emporium have one on eBay at £1500 and the ATC 6-year warranty is transferable, so check the serial number with them for its age)