Dedicated Home Cineam Room - Help and Guidance sought after

[rocketrazor]

@rocketrazor i'm not sure what your budget is or how long you are prepaired to wait but you may wish to hold out for the Denon AVR-X6200W which i believe is due out later in the year october time which is an 11 channel amp. *good*

No it isn't. It's a 9 channel amplifier with processing for 11 channels, same as the Marantz 7010 or Yamaha 3050.

cheers guys, I've added it to my short list. Now that consists of

Marantz 7010

Yamaha 3050

Denon 6200

think that will do for the amp!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

There is an AVF podcast where THX employees are interviewed

They did atmos testing and said 7. whatever was more important than ceiling speakers

You will easy be able to find it

Not so easy for me, ellisdj, could you maybe give the link please?

 

[Frank Harvey]

I always thought 5.1 was two front, two rear, one centre and one sub. 7.1 was the same with two side? Am I wrong here?

Nope, that's correct. In a 5.1 speakers you have the option of using the rears at the back or the sides, and when you move to 7.1 the best option is usually two at the sides and two at the back. Room dimensions may dictate otherwise though.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Steve Withers, when reviewing Marantz SR7009, said this:

"We found that we preferred using the 5.1.4 configuration, as opposed to the 7.1.2 because the sense of immersion was greater and we didn't miss the two rear speakers. In fact the precision of the localisation of effects and the panning of sounds was quite remarkable, even with just five speakers."

I think I'd agree with this.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I always thought 5.1 was two front, two rear, one centre and one sub. 7.1 was the same with two side? Am I wrong here? The above says didn't miss two rear speakers, that would make 7.1 as four rear speakers

It might be a problem with nomenclature, but you are indeed a bit wrong. 5.1 is correctly described as two front, one centre, one subwoofer and two surround (not rear) speakers. So it looks like this

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/7-1-surround-sound/image&imgrefurl=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.1_surround_sound&h=366&w=350&tbnid=KJ4Glzy0z_rcRM:&tbnh=160&tbnw=153&usg=__99FnlR0KNvwVjZliaddfSRusDds=&docid=ypHCpQSLlr2bAM&itg=1&sa=X&ved=0CEcQ9QEwAGoVChMI7tzOv5TOxwIVxzkUCh0roARs.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

In my post number 130 I trust that I don't contradict the succinct guidance of the main man David@Frank Harvey in post number 128 ...

 

[Frank Harvey]

It would be true that the two pairs of surround speakers of a 7.1 system would both be classed as 'surround speakers' speakers rather than 'rear'. We do tend to adopt 'surround back' or 'rear surround" to describe the rear centre speakers to differentiate them from the normal surround speakers that would be the rear speakers in a 5.1 system.

 

[rocketrazor]

Cheers guys. So in a 7.1 setup with two rears and two sides if you feed it 5.1 from a DVD what would happen? Would the amp manipulate the sound into 7.1 or would it only use 5 of the 7 speakers? In which case any idea which it would use, the rears or the sides?

cheers

 

[his dudeness]

if you were running the amp in auto or direct the 5.1 would play as 5.1 using the sides,the amp on a different setting will play the 5.1 in 7.1.

 

[ellisdj]

Podcast is dated 15th July.

 

[bigboss]

Podcast is dated 15th July.

I started a thread about it. Even Steve Withers (who is a professional reviewer) thought 5.1.4 was more effective.

In the first scene of Expendables 3, a helicopter flies above your head. Presence of 4 speakers in the ceiling gives it a sense of direction (the helicopter flying front to back). This isn't possible with only 2 speakers in the ceiling.

THX has experience in the US where the average room size is much larger than the UK. This would also have an impact on whether 5.1.4 is better or 7.1.2.

 

[rocketrazor]

Looking at the Marantz 7009 over the 7010 the only difference I can see really is the lack of Hdmi 2.0a support so no HDR? If however I purchased the 7009 and a 4k player (when available) with two HDMI outputs I could run one to a new 4k projector (purchased in a few years time) direct and one to the amp for atmos? That would work wouldn't it, getting me both 4k HDCP 2:2 and HDR as well as Atmos and save me some money as potentially I could get the 7009 even cheaper when the 7010 comes out.

Also thinking of dropping down to Atmos 5.1.4 so no need for extra speakers (cable would be run in though) and no need for the extra Amp to power the last 2 channels. Potentially now with this and the 7009 once the 7010 is released it might save me £1000. Just thinking out loud here!

 

[rocketrazor]

if you were running the amp in auto or direct the 5.1 would play as 5.1 using the sides,the amp on a different setting will play the 5.1 in 7.1.

cheers dude! This along with a possible budget constraint as made me wondering if for now atmos 5.1.4 is the route to go down dropping the two rear/side ones and a sub.

 

[bigboss]

As I suggested before, do it once but do it right. Your setup needs to be as much future proof as possible, so definitely get one that supports HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2. You do not want to limit yourself to players with dual HDMI outs which are generally more expensive. Your projector will have only 1 HDMI input, and you'll have to keep changing cables if you want to watch a film on Sky for example. It'll get more complicated if you have a 4K blu ray player and a separate 4K media player. By the time you're ready to buy, the 7010 will fall in price. So don't worry. Another major difference is that the 7009 does not support DTS:X.

Also, I would highly recommend the 7.1.4 setup as yours is a dedicated cinema room. If funds are tight, add the stereo amplifier / power amplifier later, but put the speakers in. In-wall and in-ceiling speakers aren't expensive. It'll cost more to install later, not to mention all the dust created! If you don't do it now, you will never do it. Buying all the speakers as a package will be cheaper than buying 2 separate speakers later.

 

[ellisdj]

You can always add a second sub at anytime - to me what's been the main difference i have heard between an ok home cinema and a really good one

The bass - it's more important than the main speakers and what really brings a film to life. I have learnt this time and time again when visiting a certain installer / demo rooms.
His motto is its all about the bass.

In terms of fidelity that one sub has to integrate with all the other speakers you have. This is extremely difficult even with 2 subs it's difficult but allows for a more flexible setup.

I bet most people spend lots on speakers scrimp on the sub - mistake number 1 if you ask me and one I have made myself

If you want to come and demo here I can demonstrate good bass to you. Then you can feedback to BB as I have always wanted him to come here

 

[Series1boy]

Looking at the Marantz 7009 over the 7010 the only difference I can see really is the lack of Hdmi 2.0a support so no HDR? If however I purchased the 7009 and a 4k player (when available) with two HDMI outputs I could run one to a new 4k projector (purchased in a few years time) direct and one to the amp for atmos? That would work wouldn't it, getting me both 4k HDCP 2:2 and HDR as well as Atmos and save me some money as potentially I could get the 7009 even cheaper when the 7010 comes out.

Also thinking of dropping down to Atmos 5.1.4 so no need for extra speakers (cable would be run in though) and no need for the extra Amp to power the last 2 channels. Potentially now with this and the 7009 once the 7010 is released it might save me £1000. Just thinking out loud here!

why don't you look at Denon? The new x4200 when it comes out would be far cheaper and has all the bells and whistles but you would be again limited to 7 channels 5.1.2 and add an additional amp for 5.1.4 as its only an additional box which will just sit on top of the reciever. Once you have set it up right, the volume control works in sync with the main reciever.

I bought my x4100 in January this year and saved around £500 from the original price and paid £725 from peter tyson with a 5 year waranty.. This will be the same for the x4200 and all receivers but the Denon will be far cheaper than the Marantz and they share lots of the internal components and the setup screens are the same for audessy..

just throwing another option in for you.

 

[ellisdj]

There is a chap selling a full XTZ cinema system on avf at the minute speakers and dual subs. They are only a few months old. Might be too much to soon but just thought of it to give you a heads up

 

[ellisdj]

Too late sold already no surprise there sorry

 

[Series1boy]

Check this out on av forums:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/denon-avr-x3200w-7-2-av-receiver-review.1977188/

an even cheaper option and has 2 sub outputs, although Steve withers says he couldn't ping the 2 separate outputs on setup. Someone else on there confirms the x4200 does...

 

[his dudeness]

the marantz is a 9.2 amp so no extra amp requiered for 5.2.4,and the 7009 is available for 799.00,

 

[bigboss]

Go for an amp with processing for 11 channels so you have the flexibility to go for a full 7.1.4 or 7.2.4 setup. Add the stereo amp later if funds are tight. As mentioned before, 7009 doesn't do DTS:X, nor it has HDMI 2.0 or HDCP 2.2.

 

[rocketrazor]

Too late sold already no surprise there sorry

Thanks, probably out of my budget anyway *biggrin*

 

[rocketrazor]

Cheers guys, I am keen to try and stick with a 9 channel processing Amp and an 11 channel capable Amp so I would just need to add the second Amp at a later date.

I've got Marantz, Denon and Yamaha on my list for my Amps.

I take what your saying on board Big Boss, its just a case of what if funds wont allow! I'll find out on Wednesday as I have my first quote coming for converting either the Garage or Loft. This will give me an idea if it's affordable or not! Fingers crossed. I'd hate to go all through this and find out the cost of converting either the Garage or Loft is just to expensive! Be just my luck though

I'll most likely sacrific a Sub first, I can add another later. Another option is to sacrific on the Projector and get a cheaper one if I'm likely to replace in a few years with a 4K one. Get the sound right first time as that wont change and then make do with a cheaper projector until I can get a 4K one. I'm hoping for some announcements at the IFA about some new projectors from Sony that might reduce the cost of their current ones VPL-HW40ES and VPL-HW55ES

 

[ellisdj]

This thread is highlighting the same problem many people are going to have with atmos setups.

It thins your budget out.

To get a full setup you need more. More speakers more amps more cables etc more cost - clever isn't it really

So it poses a big question on quality.

What's actually better a much better 5.2 or a much worse quality 7.1.4

Interesting one don't you think

 

[bigboss]

You cannot beat an Atmos setup though!

That's I went for in-wall and in-ceiling speakers. They're much cheaper with same drivers.