Dedicated Home Cineam Room - Help and Guidance sought after

[rocketrazor]

Hi Guys,

I'm after some advice regarding a new setup for a dedicated home cinema room. I’m considering converting the garage (single detached garage) measuring 2.7 meters by 5.7 meters (outside measurements) or the loft (not measured yet but it’s a low height loft, you can’t stand in it)

Before I go about getting some quotes for cost of converting and probably installing the system I wanted to run past you some thoughts on equipment I was thinking about and if you could think of any alternatives that might be cheaper or better at similar cost. Obviously the more I spend on the equipment the less I have on the conversion and visa versa. As it will be a dedicated room I will be able to get it pretty much pitch black. If I go the garage route I will place the speakers behind the screen so will need an acoustic transparent screen, if I go the loft route they will sit above and to the side of the screen.

I do have some criteria that need to be meet though………

I would like Dolby Atmos setup, 7.1.4

I game a lot so it will be used for gaming (input lag is essential)

I like my 3D movies so this is a must

It must be 4K future proof. I would like it so when I do decide to go to 4K all I have to replace is the projector and Blu-Ray player

The pieces of kit I was thinking about are……….

Marantz 7010 Amp

Sony VPL-HW40ES Projector

PS3 for gaming and Blu-Ray

Projector screen TBA. I’m assuming if don’t need an acoustic transparent screen it will handle 4K material fine. I have read though if it’s an acoustic transparent screen I need to get a special one for 4K due to the hole’s required and the difference in the amount of detail. It will be fixed to the wall.

Speaker setup – Monitor Audio Shadows (probably S50 rather than S60) with sub. Kef T205 setup, or Kef Egg speakers both with sub. Ceiling speakers not decided on yet.

Cheap FreeSat Humax box for those all-important England World Cup football matches!

If you can think of anything else I might need let me know

Cheers

Rocket

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Hello Rocket,

Bigboss is your man, having installed a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos cinema set-up in his house, and I can confirm that his home cinema is excellent!

What I can help with, though, is this link for your Humax Freesat box.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.Xhumax+freesat+box.TRS0&_nkw=humax+freesat+box&_sacat=0

Just make sure that your get a Freesat HD box, not just Freesat. There are several options from the link this afternoon. I'm not clear whether you need a recorder as well as just a receiver, but if it's just a receiver box you need then you shouldn't be spending more than £50. This is how I myself bought two Humax Freesat HD boxes within the last 18 months, I got them on eBay. You might consider getting one fairly soon, there's no reason to delay.

 

[ellisdj]

There are loads of options - get out demoing is the best way to know for sure. It might change your mind with what you do

I wpuld suggest a few but depends where you are located - worth the effort before you plan anything - I wish I had done this before all my work. Would saved me a lot of ££

There is another forum with lots of advice and people doing this same thing regualrly and documenting it. You can get a lot of information, ideas etc from it - Worth a good look on there !!

 

[rocketrazor]

thanks guys

I'm only after a non-recording Humax so will check that out when the time comes, I'll make sure it's HD also.

I think ellisdj we are not to far apart, I'm based near Southend and I think you are Essex based so no to bad. If you are Essex based and have a few idea's where to demo stuff I'd appreciate that. Currently I'm thinking Richersounds and Rayleigh HiFi. Both also offer installation so will probably get a quote from them including as much kit as possible for a bulk deal.

If there are any outstanding demo shops in other places I might be willing to travel providing I can pre-book a slot and demo specific kit. Don't really want to travel and then find 'we don't have that, but we have this!'

Cheers

 

[bigboss]

Your plan looks good!! Few points:

1) As yours is a perfectly dark room, a decent fixed white AT screen will work well. Look at Sapphire and Draper screens. They come with good reviews.

2) If you want a 7.1.4 system, you'll need a separate power or stereo amplifier as 7010 has amplification for 9 speakers only. Your alternative is the Onkyo 3030 but that's expensive and runs hot.

3) Remember that style speakers cost money, and yours is a dedicated cinema room. Do you really want to spend on style? If you're getting it renovated anyway, why not go for in-wall and in-ceiling speakers? Will be cheaper, look more elegant and no compromise to quality if you choose the right speakers.

4) Go for the best subwoofer you can afford. You won't regret it.

5) Think of room acoustics which you can incorporate during the renovation.

 

[ellisdj]

thanks guys

I'm only after a non-recording Humax so will check that out when the time comes, I'll make sure it's HD also.

I think ellisdj we are not to far apart, I'm based near Southend and I think you are Essex based so no to bad. If you are Essex based and have a few idea's where to demo stuff I'd appreciate that. Currently I'm thinking Richersounds and Rayleigh HiFi. Both also offer installation so will probably get a quote from them including as much kit as possible for a bulk deal.

If there are any outstanding demo shops in other places I might be willing to travel providing I can pre-book a slot and demo specific kit. Don't really want to travel and then find 'we don't have that, but we have this!'

Cheers

Hi Rocket - yes mate you are just up the road - so far I have had a demo from Kalibrate Ltd. His system was sounding good using a Dirac unit and in wall speakers - he also can demo quite a few screen materials one over the other which is interesting to see the difference.

Demoing this weekend with Jag @ Epic Home Cinema and Rob@ Gecko Cinema (I would advise to go here if you can - very very good home cinema)

Rayleigh HiFi is a good shout as its very local, I have not seen the new cinema store but its supposed to be very nice.

If you want to travel David @ Frank Harvey - never been but he is on here a lot so deserves a shout, Ideal AV up in Yorkshire is supposed to be a very informative dealer.

Jeff at Castle Sound in Nottingham - very good service from him, supposed to do top end home cinema as well.

Think that is enough free plugging Sorry if I missed anyone

 

[rocketrazor]

Your plan looks good!! Few points:

1) As yours is a perfectly dark room, a decent fixed white AT screen will work well. Look at Sapphire and Draper screens. They come with good reviews.

2) If you want a 7.1.4 system, you'll need a separate power or stereo amplifier as 7010 has amplification for 9 speakers only. Your alternative is the Onkyo 3030 but that's expensive and runs hot.

3) Remember that style speakers cost money, and yours is a dedicated cinema room. Do you really want to spend on style? If you're getting it renovated anyway, why not go for in-wall and in-ceiling speakers? Will be cheaper, look more elegant and no compromise to quality if you choose the right speakers.

4) Go for the best subwoofer you can afford. You won't regret it.

5) Think of room acoustics which you can incorporate during the renovation.

Thanks bigboss, some great advise and details I missed or hadn't thought off!

I'll take a look at those screens and see if I can find some reviews.

I hadn't noticed that the Marantz was only 9 channel output, cheers. I'll have a look at the different Atmos options I can have using this Amp and will also look at how I can get those extra 2 channels. I also found this link of yours which I intend to digest

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/dolby-atmos-dilemma-712-or-514

I never considered the in-wall speakers as I assumed (no doubt incorrectly) that they were not as good?

I will take note on the sub, no doubt the wife might insist on using the garage now

. I'm guessing when using a sub all the base comes from there and the front speakers become more of a surround speaker like the rears, so don't need to be so big and powerful? Sorry, I've only used floor standing fronts before and no sub so rely on the floor stands for base. I have no idea how much the sub does and how much the fronts do when used together?

I never thought of the room acoustics, I'll have to have a think about that

Cheers

Rocket

 

[rocketrazor]

thanks guys

I'm only after a non-recording Humax so will check that out when the time comes, I'll make sure it's HD also.

I think ellisdj we are not to far apart, I'm based near Southend and I think you are Essex based so no to bad. If you are Essex based and have a few idea's where to demo stuff I'd appreciate that. Currently I'm thinking Richersounds and Rayleigh HiFi. Both also offer installation so will probably get a quote from them including as much kit as possible for a bulk deal.

If there are any outstanding demo shops in other places I might be willing to travel providing I can pre-book a slot and demo specific kit. Don't really want to travel and then find 'we don't have that, but we have this!'

Cheers

Hi Rocket - yes mate you are just up the road - so far I have had a demo from Kalibrate Ltd. His system was sounding good using a Dirac unit and in wall speakers - he also can demo quite a few screen materials one over the other which is interesting to see the difference.

Demoing this weekend with Jag @ Epic Home Cinema and Rob@ Gecko Cinema (I would advise to go here if you can - very very good home cinema)

Rayleigh HiFi is a good shout as its very local, I have not seen the new cinema store but its supposed to be very nice.

If you want to travel David @ Frank Harvey - never been but he is on here a lot so deserves a shout, Ideal AV up in Yorkshire is supposed to be a very informative dealer.

Jeff at Castle Sound in Nottingham - very good service from him, supposed to do top end home cinema as well.

Think that is enough free plugging Sorry if I missed anyone

Cheers ellisdj, i'll give these a shout. I've seen Frank Harvey on here helping others so If I do fancy a road trip I'll defo pop there

Ta

 

[bigboss]

Your plan looks good!! Few points:

1) As yours is a perfectly dark room, a decent fixed white AT screen will work well. Look at Sapphire and Draper screens. They come with good reviews.

2) If you want a 7.1.4 system, you'll need a separate power or stereo amplifier as 7010 has amplification for 9 speakers only. Your alternative is the Onkyo 3030 but that's expensive and runs hot.

3) Remember that style speakers cost money, and yours is a dedicated cinema room. Do you really want to spend on style? If you're getting it renovated anyway, why not go for in-wall and in-ceiling speakers? Will be cheaper, look more elegant and no compromise to quality if you choose the right speakers.

4) Go for the best subwoofer you can afford. You won't regret it.

5) Think of room acoustics which you can incorporate during the renovation.

Thanks bigboss, some great advise and details I missed or hadn't thought off!

I'll take a look at those screens and see if I can find some reviews.

I hadn't noticed that the Marantz was only 9 channel output, cheers.  I'll have a look at the different Atmos options I can have using this Amp and will also look at how I can get those extra 2 channels.  I also found this link of yours which I intend to digest

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/dolby-atmos-dilemma-712-or-514

I never considered the in-wall speakers as I assumed (no doubt incorrectly) that they were not as good?

I will take note on the sub, no doubt the wife might insist on using the garage now.  I'm guessing when using a sub all the base comes from there and the front speakers become more of a surround speaker like the rears, so don't need to be so big and powerful?  Sorry, I've only used floor standing fronts before and no sub so rely on the floor stands for base.  I have no idea how much the sub does and how much the fronts do when used together?

I never thought of the room acoustics, I'll have to have a think about that

Cheers

Rocket

?

 

My Trimless 200 speakers are superior to Monitor Audio Radius HD I had previously. You're welcome to demo if you like.

Subwoofer takes lower frequencies away from the speakers, allowing them to perform better with mid and higher ranges. The fronts do a lot more than surrounds even with a subwoofer. My previous dealer once told me: "buy the biggest subwoofer you can afford and you can get away with murder (meaning a good subwoofer can overcome a weak speaker generally speaking)!"

 

[ellisdj]

Rocket - trust me get out and demo - it will likely change everything you think you want to do.

Had 2 Truely Excellent demo's today.

Jag at Epic Home Cinema has literally that a truely Epic Cinema to demonstrate - he was demoing XTZ speakers (UK Dealer) Atmos etc - very, very good, very reasonably priced with great scale off cheapish kit - I would definately contact him - he is a cracking guy.

Then you have Rob @ Gecko Cinemas - its stunning home cinema as well - awesome demo's there as well - very hard to fault.

Different but similar approaches that open your eyes to a model of installation you can copy that you know will work very well !! Get out and demo these systems before you decide anything honestly

 

[bigboss]

What did you think of XTZ 3X12 subwoofer?

 

[rocketrazor]

Your plan looks good!! Few points:

1) As yours is a perfectly dark room, a decent fixed white AT screen will work well. Look at Sapphire and Draper screens. They come with good reviews.

2) If you want a 7.1.4 system, you'll need a separate power or stereo amplifier as 7010 has amplification for 9 speakers only. Your alternative is the Onkyo 3030 but that's expensive and runs hot.

3) Remember that style speakers cost money, and yours is a dedicated cinema room. Do you really want to spend on style? If you're getting it renovated anyway, why not go for in-wall and in-ceiling speakers? Will be cheaper, look more elegant and no compromise to quality if you choose the right speakers.

4) Go for the best subwoofer you can afford. You won't regret it.

5) Think of room acoustics which you can incorporate during the renovation.

Thanks bigboss, some great advise and details I missed or hadn't thought off!

I'll take a look at those screens and see if I can find some reviews.

I hadn't noticed that the Marantz was only 9 channel output, cheers. I'll have a look at the different Atmos options I can have using this Amp and will also look at how I can get those extra 2 channels. I also found this link of yours which I intend to digest

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/dolby-atmos-dilemma-712-or-514

I never considered the in-wall speakers as I assumed (no doubt incorrectly) that they were not as good?

I will take note on the sub, no doubt the wife might insist on using the garage now. I'm guessing when using a sub all the base comes from there and the front speakers become more of a surround speaker like the rears, so don't need to be so big and powerful? Sorry, I've only used floor standing fronts before and no sub so rely on the floor stands for base. I have no idea how much the sub does and how much the fronts do when used together?

I never thought of the room acoustics, I'll have to have a think about that

Cheers

Rocket

My Trimless 200 speakers are superior to Monitor Audio Radius HD I had previously. You're welcome to demo if you like.

Subwoofer takes lower frequencies away from the speakers, allowing them to perform better with mid and higher ranges. The fronts do a lot more than surrounds even with a subwoofer. My previous dealer once told me: "buy the biggest subwoofer you can afford and you can get away with murder (meaning a good subwoofer can overcome a weak speaker generally speaking)!"

thanks for the offer bigboss, where are you located? Cheers

 

[ellisdj]

It was mostly a PJ demo - so I wasnt totally assessing sound, but it was all impressive and on a scale much bigger than what I am used to.

Its a huge room to pressurise and there are many seats, so I guess there is a compromise for SQ compared to just 1 seat like I am used to. I am also used to a higher crossover now - so factor that into my comments.

They underpinned the sound well - was fairly tight and controlled. I dont really remember anything standing out - or my attention being drawn to the subs - which is praise - quite often my attention is drawn to a sub that is badly setup - making noises that dont sound right etc

Demo of Kingsman at the end was very good and memorable - again I am thinking picture - that was on the 55ES

 

[rocketrazor]

Rocket - trust me get out and demo - it will likely change everything you think you want to do.

Had 2 Truely Excellent demo's today.

Jag at Epic Home Cinema has literally that a truely Epic Cinema to demonstrate - he was demoing XTZ speakers (UK Dealer) Atmos etc - very, very good, very reasonably priced with great scale off cheapish kit - I would definately contact him - he is a cracking guy.

Then you have Rob @ Gecko Cinemas - its stunning home cinema as well - awesome demo's there as well - very hard to fault.

Different but similar approaches that open your eyes to a model of installation you can copy that you know will work very well !! Get out and demo these systems before you decide anything honestly

ill defo demo, still working out though if it's a dream or if I can afford it

 

[bigboss]

I live in York. Remember: do it once, do it right.

 

[rocketrazor]

I live in York. Remember: do it once, do it right.

Cheers bigboss. York is a little way for me for a day trip, but if I'm in the area or I decide to arrange a few demo's that way I might contact you for a cup of tea *biggrin*

I certainly don't intend on doing this twice, I'll run at least enough cables in for a full 7.2.4 setup, even if I don't use it all to start with

Cheers

 

[ellisdj]

I wish I had run in cable for atmos - altho it will be a Long Time before I afford to get Meridian atmos. May have to look elsewhere we''ll see.

I hold my hands up, I was saying I think it will be a difficult thing to do well in the home - the demo's I have had recently have been very positive for atmos but they have not been in the typical home on the typical system- they have been in dedicated rooms with space which obviously makes a big difference.

They have made me want it though I cant deny that. It definately adds dimension to the sound that 5.1 doesnt do

 

[bigboss]

Glad you finally demoed an Atmos system!

I've ordered Gravity Luxe Edition blu-ray. Apparently it's the best Atmos disc out there.

 

[rocketrazor]

I've been looking at some comparison between in-wall and on-wall speakers

www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/trimless-200/wt280-idc

www.monitoraudio.co.uk/products/shadow/shadow-50

www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/5206/monitor-audio-s50-shadow-5-1-speaker-package/

www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/5618/monitor-audio-wt280-idc-in-wall-speaker-single-/

I don't fully understand from the spec which one is better (sound wise)

What should I be looking at for sound comparison

 

[bigboss]

WT280-IDC is a true 3-way speaker. Slim speakers do compromise on overall sound quality in preference to slim speakers. More importantly, you'll be paying for design.

Depends on how much extra you'll pay for installation for each option.

I bought IDC models (3-way speakers) for fronts and centre. (WT280-IDC) and 2-way models for surrounds (WT280 for side and rear surrounds and CT265 speakers for Atmos). Remember you'll get a significant discount over RRP with in-wall and in-ceiling speakers.

 

[bigboss]

Depending on your budget, also look at MK speakers and XTZ cinema series. I demoed the MKs and they were brilliant. Out of my budget unfortunately.

For good value and brilliant subwoofers, look at SVS.

 

[rocketrazor]

WT280-IDC is a true 3-way speaker. Slim speakers do compromise on overall sound quality in preference to slim speakers. More importantly, you'll be paying for design.

Depends on how much extra you'll pay for installation for each option.

I bought IDC models (3-way speakers) for fronts and centre. (WT280-IDC) and 2-way models for surrounds (WT280 for side and rear surrounds and CT265 speakers for Atmos). Remember you'll get a significant discount over RRP with in-wall and in-ceiling speakers.

thanks for the input bigboss appreciate this. What do you mean by this statement re RRP? Can you get these cheaper somehow?

i just read up re 2 way vs 3 way to understand the difference. I think that 3 way at front and 2 at the back/ceiling is a sensible way to go. I'll carry on investigating

gotta quote coming for both garage and loft conversions in a few weeks, need to try and book some more but will see then if this is a go/no go idea soon. Fingers crossed

cheers

 

[ellisdj]

Rocket - before you make your mind up on monitor audio - go and hear more dedicted type cinema speakers from MK, KK and XTZ.

For pure cinema these are hard to beat - thats why i said go for demo's and its eye opening and interesting to hear companies your not that familair with be excellent.

 

[rocketrazor]

Cheers ellisdj, appreciate the advise.

just googled the xtz speakers, no need to demo, way out of my price range !

 

[ellisdj]

I thought they did a very big range from cheap to expensive same as MK - in walls as well?

I think KK are more limited to just highest quality / expensive so they wont be for you -- I dont mean this arrogantly as it may read sorry if it does.

I just meant they dont have a range for different budgets