Dedicated Home Cineam Room - Help and Guidance sought after

[Son_of_SJ]

Son of SJ - if you saw it you would see why - its the way you get the biggest and best picture you will ever see - nothing else comes close which is why people do it.

That's why Son_of_SJ is interested in 75-inch plus TVs.

And following a chat with a pensions person a week ago, it's really now looking as if I will have enough money to buy one by the end of January, yaay!. I'm not sure whether I will rush out and buy anything then though, I might wait a month or two for prices to fall maybe?

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Big tv is great because hugely reduced room related effect on contrast etc but the image will still have a visible frame top bottom and on the sides and you will still see his parlour or kitchen whatever room it goes in before you see the screen as soon as there is any light from the TV.

I didn't know this had any effect until recently but it does. When there is nothing to see but the image that is the holy grail.

There is a way round it for tv but SonofSJ will poo poo it even though if he did it he would be sold instantly

I ain't pooh-poohing nuthin', big boy. Go on, let me hear it!

 

[ellisdj]

Ok then - lets see if I can get Son of SJ on board - bearing in mind I am a jedi and he is but a mere padawan

There is one main negative with watching a TV compared to a PJ - thats the frame / bezel and the wall behind it.

People use bias lights to help the eye focus on the screen - I used to do this my my Kuro but found it more of a distraction with the 65VT65 so chopped it

After seeing the PJ in a completely blacked out room (by blacked out I mean no ambient light or relfected light from the screen, not just black out curtains there is a big difference) I noticed just how much the rear wall was visible and how much the VT65 frame was visible also. If it frames the TV and you can see the frame you can see your watching a TV. This was one of the things worse about my setup compared to the PJ setup that I fell in love with. Literally love at first sight it is real *acute*

So to stop this you can put up black velour on the wall behind the TV - you can buy 5metre rolls that have adhesive backs, its easy to put up because you dont have to be perfect like wall paper, just keep it the same way up because you cant really see imperfections once its up. It actually looks a lot nicer than it sounds as well I think - its like a plain feature wall.

You then have the tv image coming off a lightless background - this will have the effect of increased contrast, it gives the image more pop because your eye is not seeing the rear wall at the same time as the tv, its seeing just the TV and whats in front of it.

The next trick is depending on the TV framwork and bezel - probably no need on a ultra thin OLED but the silver trim of the 65VT frames the whole image.

You can cut thin ish slivers of the black velour and use it to cover the frame only - def not the screen or the speakers, all the way round. Its only a very light adhesive so it comes off easily and wont leave any marks or anything so as long as your careful there is no chance of damage or anything because its only being stuck to a hard plastic frame - However I should add a disclaimer to this - I hold no responsibility etc if someone tries it

For your efforts what you get now is an invisible TV - you cant see your watching a TV anymore - your just watching content and it works a treat if you ask me - assuming you are watching the TV in a light controlled way.

Just an idea

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Well, that certainly sounds more manageable than blacking out the whole room! I'll think about it! *acute*

 

[ellisdj]

The black velour is very addicitve buddy, the benefits start to become very clear once you get to work with it. I now have loads of it up and would love to do the whole room but cant because its not purely dedicated, if only

This is the stuff, its not cheap thats the only snag

 

[rocketrazor]

Has anyone seen these at all?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Luxburg%C2%AE-221x125cm-Freestanding-Projector-Projection/dp/B00GC8QVWA

I was thinking of the 80" (currently out of stock) for the lounge seeing as i'm not allowed to drill holes or have the screen hanging from the ceiling or walls. The projector would be mobile as well sitting on a table which given my 2.6 mtrs throw means I can get an 80" screen

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-HW40ES-projection-calculator.htm

 

[bigboss]

Such screens are usually low quality, mainly suitable for PowerPoint presentations etc. and not for home cinema. I'll check if there are any good quality portable screens.

 

[Series1boy]

Ok then - lets see if I can get Son of SJ on board - bearing in mind I am a jedi and he is but a mere padawan

There is one main negative with watching a TV compared to a PJ - thats the frame / bezel and the wall behind it.

People use bias lights to help the eye focus on the screen - I used to do this my my Kuro but found it more of a distraction with the 65VT65 so chopped it

After seeing the PJ in a completely blacked out room (by blacked out I mean no ambient light or relfected light from the screen, not just black out curtains there is a big difference) I noticed just how much the rear wall was visible and how much the VT65 frame was visible also. If it frames the TV and you can see the frame you can see your watching a TV. This was one of the things worse about my setup compared to the PJ setup that I fell in love with. Literally love at first sight it is real *acute*

So to stop this you can put up black velour on the wall behind the TV - you can buy 5metre rolls that have adhesive backs, its easy to put up because you dont have to be perfect like wall paper, just keep it the same way up because you cant really see imperfections once its up. It actually looks a lot nicer than it sounds as well I think - its like a plain feature wall.

You then have the tv image coming off a lightless background - this will have the effect of increased contrast, it gives the image more pop because your eye is not seeing the rear wall at the same time as the tv, its seeing just the TV and whats in front of it.

The next trick is depending on the TV framwork and bezel - probably no need on a ultra thin OLED but the silver trim of the 65VT frames the whole image.

You can cut thin ish slivers of the black velour and use it to cover the frame only - def not the screen or the speakers, all the way round. Its only a very light adhesive so it comes off easily and wont leave any marks or anything so as long as your careful there is no chance of damage or anything because its only being stuck to a hard plastic frame - However I should add a disclaimer to this - I hold no responsibility etc if someone tries it

For your efforts what you get now is an invisible TV - you cant see your watching a TV anymore - your just watching content and it works a treat if you ask me - assuming you are watching the TV in a light controlled way.

Just an idea

get some pics up mate!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

get some pics up mate!

Is that to me or to Ellisdj?? *acute*

 

[Series1boy]

Elisdj, I've seen yours

 

[ellisdj]

I can't sorry my tv is gone i sold it a few weeks back if you remember. You will have to take my word for it working a real treat or go demo in a room like it then look and your own TV and see what I mean. My cousin has the same tv calibrated the same as my old one using the same method and software laptop and metre. He came round a few weeks ago and said, wow you get more contrast out of your TV than I do which is rubbish they are the same I just had the black velour wall behind it etc giving it a boost. I did also use an isotek mira which is supposed to boost contrast and a clearer audio silverline power cable wiyh a furutech FIUK plug synergistic red fuse and furutech fi28 iec but believe those to make any difference if you will.

EDIT - I will try and show with some other photos I have taken previously - photobucket is being a right pain

 

[ellisdj]

Look at how the table stands out in this shot - I have used this photo before but its a good example

This is my PJ on my make shift screen

 

[ellisdj]

This is when I was starting to change the room ready for a PJ - I started to darken the panels etc.

I am not sure this will show what I want it to but its a start, these are not the right photos but getting something up for now

If you look at the frront wall its all black velour

It works better for 2.35:1 content / letter box.

You are much less aware of the fact your watching letterbox content and actually I became aware for the first time ever the differences of letterbox ratios for different content small point I know

Then with the picture on and light down front of the room (on at the back so I can take the picture)

Now of you imagine changing all you can see to being the same as what you cant see i.e. lightless - think the effect that would have on the TV Picture
The fact you can see speakers, stands, kit, ceiling panels ruins the effect, but if you ignore them just look close to the tv for now

This is another example I used this photo to sell my tv - who needs OLED - Panny plasma awesome TV

 

[rocketrazor]

Such screens are usually low quality, mainly suitable for PowerPoint presentations etc. and not for home cinema. I'll check if there are any good quality portable screens.

Thanks bigboss. I know it's not going to give as much wow factor as a dedicated screen but its an option given the circumstances. Alternatively I need to try and work out a way to mount a drop down projector on a frame that can be removed. The idea you see is that it will go up and down in the space between the lounge and the dinning room

 

[rocketrazor]

Look at how the table stands out in this shot - I have used this photo before but its a good example

This is my PJ on my make shift screen

Do you have Underworld or Bladerunner DVD's/Blu-Ray mate? Would be great to see the first scene in underworld where kate is sitting above the city on a ledge in the bell tower. Also the first opening scene from Bladerunner with the car flying over LA or even the first visit to China town with all the neon lights.

cheers

 

[Son_of_SJ]

This is another example I used this photo to sell my tv - who needs OLED - Panny plasma awesome TV

I must admit, the third picture really stands out really stands out against the black background. And I have the same television as you had then! What I don't have though, is a solid wall behind the television in the parlour. I have two bay windows left and right, and a central wall portion which is nearly the same width as one of the windows but not as wide as my 65VT65 itself.

 

[ellisdj]

I have no screen at the minute, I have resigned the make shift to the garage and it will be going in the hippo skip bag out the front when I get my proper screen.

Its been 3 weeks and 2 days since I ordered it on a 3-4 weeks wait, so due soon. Once I have the screen in and up you can come and have a look / listen Rocket mate. I dont have blade runner or the other blu ray you mentioned sorry.

Son of SJ - Thats does make it more difficult - you might have to install the curtains that people use - the material suggested is Black Devore which again reflects no light. Its not cheap but its the one everyone suggests. However I am not sure if people on AVF have used a certaon curtain that is readily available to buy - premade or if they have tp have them, custom made, which is likely expensive depending on iof you know a seamstress you can bribe with cake.

If you look at my panels I covered them in Camira Lucia - I cant recall the name of the colour - they have 2 black colours 1 more charcoal black and the other black black. Even though you cant really see them they still reflect a bit of light - Devore would have been better, but I didnt know at the time.

I had 3 in the charcoal colour if you look at my top pic, they look a bit purple but they are not

 

[Sun_Shang_Xiang]

Hi Son_ofSJ, ellisdj's pictures are fantastic and gives good advice. I should however like to offer a different point of view regarding environment for a tv set up, you might want to head over to the cinemaquest site for some information, (they suggest a neutral white to grey background for a tv environment):

http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ive.htm

This company makes the Ideal Lume which Julian Scott/Canary Jules (who is not my calibrator) is rather keen on, I use an Ideal Lume myself,for more information on Bias lighting:

http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/blb.htm

They are of course in the business of selling their own products and it is not cheap to import them over.If I offended anyone sorry. *sorry2*

 

[ellisdj]

I used to use a D65 Bias light as that is supposed to help the eye focus on the tv not on the wall behind it. I found it more distracting with the Panny than I did the Kuro - maybe because the TV was much bigger

The best picture I have seen has been in a completely blacked out room with bpack velour,

I have seen the same projector, same screen material on a bigger screen in a nion blacked out room - not near as good.

The magic of the pure black out is you cannot see anything but the image - as soon as you can see something else the immersion starts to get lost.

Also it makes sense with TV's as well - OLED exempt - why does a plasma look better in dark conditions - black levels and brightness.

The lighter the room the more relfected light there will be in the room from the TV itself which is emitting enough light at times to light the room fully up becasue of tthe reflections - this allows you to see everything on the room from your normal and peripheral vision. You may not be aware of it - but its happening all the time. Once you see an image without that and go back its clear cut obvious the difference

Pure darkness = no reflected light = best blacks, most brightness therefore best contrast, more immersion - everyone is a winner - there is no loser.

I am sold

 

[Series1boy]

This is when I was starting to change the room ready for a PJ - I started to darken the panels etc.

I am not sure this will show what I want it to but its a start, these are not the right photos but getting something up for now

If you look at the frront wall its all black velour

It works better for 2.35:1 content / letter box.

You are much less aware of the fact your watching letterbox content and actually I became aware for the first time ever the differences of letterbox ratios for different content small point I know

Then with the picture on and light down front of the room (on at the back so I can take the picture)

Now of you imagine changing all you can see to being the same as what you cant see i.e. lightless - think the effect that would have on the TV Picture

The fact you can see speakers, stands, kit, ceiling panels ruins the effect, but if you ignore them just look close to the tv for now

This is another example I used this photo to sell my tv - who needs OLED - Panny plasma awesome TV

you see I'm the same as you, nothing but a bloody good calibrated Plasma VT or ZT..(wait for it, Gel will comment soon)....

looks amazing mate. How do you get away with all the sound proofing boards with your wife.. I'd struggle with mine to get her to agree to this

 

[bigboss]

Such screens are usually low quality, mainly suitable for PowerPoint presentations etc. and not for home cinema. I'll check if there are any good quality portable screens.

Thanks bigboss.  I know it's not going to give as much wow factor as a dedicated screen but its an option given the circumstances.  Alternatively I need to try and work out a way to mount a drop down projector on a frame that can be removed.  The idea you see is that it will go up and down in the space between the lounge and the dinning room

Draper has some good options for you:

http://www.draperinc.com/ProjectionScreens/ManualScreens.aspx

 

[Frank Harvey]

The problem with photos is that they can vary wildly depending on settings...

If you're really "into" a film, you'd be surprised what you don't notice, visually and aurally...

 

[ellisdj]

[/quote]

How do you get away with all the sound proofing boards with your wife.. I'd struggle with mine to get her to agree to this

[/quote]

They are acoustic panels from GIK - I had them up anyway, I just did it - I couldnt take them out now, I wouldnt be able to enjoy the system without them in - they are the most fundamental part of the whole setup - I would add more or tweak it but never take them out.

Me and my wife made a deal - we had an extension put on the back of the house and a big renovation - I wanted one big room because it would have been awesome for sound - but she wouldnt have let me fully treat it (and it would have had windows)

So she got one room how she wanted it and I got one room how I wanted it - we compromised - its only a small house and the cinema room is in the middle and is also a dining room so its not ideal far from it, but its a nice space to be in to watch movies and listen to music.

I am looking forward to some feedback from people when they can come and have a look

 

[ellisdj]

The problem with photos is that they can vary wildly depending on settings...

If you're really "into" a film, you'd be surprised what you don't notice, visually and aurally...

It's not about that David no one I saying you cant enjoy a film on a tv setup any way that's not perfect. I have enjoyed films on airplanes In the worst environment next to watching on a phone but it's about taking it the nth level of quality. That has been the best solution I have seen including commercial cinemas so I am mimicking it.

It also makes perfect sense as well when you think about it.

That's why I encouraged SonofSJ to do it as it seemed he might have a spare room hence the topic started

I make no claim to it being my idea I have pinched it from elsewhere

In regards to the photos they were taken on my phone galaxy s6. Settings may have influenced it a bit such as hdr but the camera can only shoot what's there. No editing or anything after that.

 

[Frank Harvey]

HDR can make quite a difference? I have a few bits of furniture in the room that are white, and other bits that are reflective, and most of the time I have them covered (temporarily), but every now and again I forget to cover them, and watched a whole film without realising. As an example, I have white shelving down the left hand side of the room - I usually have things hanging over the front of them, bit now and again forget to do that, and at the end of the film, realised I haven't covered it up.

I can make a photo look how I want with a number of apps, and usually use them to make the photo look more like what I'm seeing, as a straight photo rarely does that.

Not picking or anything, as I'd rather put up with a few things in my line of sight and a big picture than a fully blacked out room with a smaller picture...