Cyrus Amplifiers

[admin_exported]

This is my first post so I hope this is the correct place to ask such a question. I have recently bought a Cyrus 8xpd QX amplifier for which I am using a Sonos ZP90 as the source. I also bough Spendor A5s which have been recommended as a good partner for the Cyrus by this magazine. They are linked by Chord Silver Screen cables.

I am having problems with this setup in that when played at a loud but still reasonable volume the amplifier cuts out with an overheating error. I reported this to the dealer and they sent me a replacement. However, the problem occurred with the new amp. After talking this over with the dealer they decided that the problem was due to using a variable volume output on the Sonos. I changed this to fixed and they again replaced the amp with a new one. However, the overheating still occurs. I have since tried the amp with a Cyrus cd player and with the psx-r power supply but the problem still happens.The amp is standing on its own on a shelf so has full ventilation.

I have now spoken to a local dealer who thinks this is because the A5s are particularly hard to drive as they require a lot of current and so need a more powerful amp. Has anyone had similar problems? If so should I replace the amp with a more powerful one? Also, do I have any case of getting a refund for the original amp? I think that for nearly £2,000 and the numerous positive reviews it is not unreasonable to expect the thing to work properly...

Thanks.

 

[Miker]

I'm no expert but it seems distinctly odd. You will see below that I have Cyrus kit with Spendor S5e speakers, similar to the new A5s.

I'd ask the experts on the Cyrusunofficial forum for advice. There will be a good few with hifi equipment similar to yours.

Good luck.
CD8SE/Psxr ] - Prevs2/Psxr - 2*XPower - Spendor S5e
LP12 - Rega Fono ]
Cyrus interconnects and Nordost Super Flat Bi-wire speaker cable

 

[pete321]

I think they pack too much into a small box with DAC inclusive integrated models, very little space left for cooling. See if your dealer can let you borrow a Pre XPd QX + 8 Power to try.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The problem is that the Spendor A5's may look like tiny speakers, but they're an 85dB load, which for many amps would be a little much to drive at higher volumes. Basically, you're asking the amplifier to do too much, and if the 8xp isn't giving you the volume levels you need, you'll either need to add a power amplifier which has more power than the 8xp (you'd be better off with a pre/power), or looking at another manufacturer.

I'd recommend changing the 8xp for a PreXpd (not suitable) and an X Power if you want to stick with Cyrus and have onboard digital decoding.

Speakers with a sensitivity of less than 87dB need more care when pairing up with amplification. Although the manufacturer claims a nice easy 8ohm load (as do one or two others), that doesn't necessarily mean that they actually are a nice easy load....

 

[Anonymous]

It seems very unlikely that a Cyrus amp shutsdown unless you listen to the music very loud.

Have you checked the wiring? Are you biwiring? If so, have you removed the jumpers on the speaker.

 

[Frank Harvey]

A5's are single wire.

 

[pete321]

You can get Cyrus Pre XP + 8 Power for £1500, or a bit less if you're lucky (I paid £1399), that leaves £500+ for a Rega DAC. I suspect all of these components would sound better for the same money and, importantly, I doubt you'd have the same issues driving the Spendors.

 

[jockey.wilson]

pete321:

I think they pack too much into a small box with DAC inclusive integrated models, very little space left for cooling. See if your dealer can let you borrow a Pre XPd QX + 8 Power to try.

I disagree totally. I had an 8XPdQx for some time driving my Dynaudios, which are a notoriously difficult load requiring lots of current. The Cyrus did this without difficulty, although it didn't have the control of my present pre-power.

Thermal efficiency of Cyrus amps are good since all their components are surface mounted (on the underside of the top, hence they are packed upside-down when you get then new). The 8 Power actually has a smaller transformer than the 8 XPd so I don't think it will make a huge difference. Maybe the OP is just expecting night-club levels of SPL in his/her listening room, and the amp can't cope?

 

[jiggyjoe]

I think you are going to need more power! Most spendors are an easy load in terms of current demands ( They are genuine 8 ohm loads, I have seen impedance curve's for a few models).

But they are insensitive and tend to be a few db less than their rated sensitivity.

So yours could be around 83db/w.

so for 83db you need 1 watt.

for 93 db you need 10 watts (getting loud)

for 103 db you need 100 watts ( this is quite loud but if you are in a large room or a headbanger you're going to need more watts.)

As the cyrus is rated at 70 watts you either change the amp or the speakers ( higher sensitivity).

Hope this helps.

 

[pete321]

jockey.wilson:pete321:

I think they pack too much into a small box with DAC inclusive integrated models, very little space left for cooling. See if your dealer can let you borrow a Pre XPd QX + 8 Power to try.

I disagree totally.

I'm a big fan of Cyrus, but it's not an isolated incident if you look at various forums, here's another example.

http://community.whathifi.com/forums/t/439324.aspx

 

[bluebrazil]

I used to use an 8vs2 to power my dynaudio 52se's and although at normal volumes i had no problems the amp would cut out if i went a bit crazy, (even tho i have a small room). I was suspicious about moving to the pre xp with one 8 power as going by the maths it meant going down to 60wpc from 70wpc, these thoughts were quickly dispelled though as there was a greater control over my speakers and the 8 power never got hotter than my 8vs2 ever did when blasting the music. Even better tho was the control at lower volumes which i listen to at quite a lot, this convinced me to audition the difference using two 8 powers in mono. I demoed with some pmc db1'i which i think are a similar load to the spendors and even tho one 8 power did them proud i could hear an improvement using two. Even tho the speaker manufacturers advise that your combo will work i fully believe you can not go wrong with more grunt.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Exactly the point I've tried to make umpteen times here bluebrazil. Now that someone has experienced it and posted it, people will start taking notice...

 

[bluebrazil]

at the risk of hijacking this post david ive been told that moving up the dynaudio ladder from the 52se's i might need to spend in excess of £1500. Do you have a good suggestion for a small standmount either second hand or new, bearing in mind i have a decent amp now.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the response Frank. To be honest, after three amps I am becoming disillusioned with Cyrus and am thinking about cutting my losses, putting the thing on ebay and looking at an alternative. I am interested in Roksan, the M2 seems well received and although only 15 watts more than the cyrus at 85watts, I have read has better cooling and a fan. Or maybe the K2 which is rated at 125watts? I would be grateful for any recommendations.

Thanks,

Steve.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi Steve

I think if the dealer had've looked after you properly in the first place, you wouldn't be in the situation you are now, and your feelings would be quite different.

As far as the Roksan is concerned, maybe they can add something here as I know they read these forums - I know on paper the K2 is more powerful, but I think you'll find their ability to drive speakers will be quite different. Ignore the w.p.c. on the Roksan amplifiers.

 

[Frank Harvey]

bluebrazil:at the risk of hijacking this post david ive been told that moving up the dynaudio ladder from the 52se's i might need to spend in excess of £1500. Do you have a good suggestion for a small standmount either second hand or new, bearing in mind i have a decent amp now.
Sorry bluebrazil, I didn't see this post until now.

The 52SE's were excellent speakers, and yes, I'd say you'd be hard pushed to match them this side of £1k. Your starting point would be ProAc's Studio 115's, which are a great improvement over the previous 110's. I think these might improve in some areas, maybe lose out in others. From Dynaudio, I think you'd have to be looking at the Focus 140. Even then it's a touch and go thing as they're a little different. Overall, the Focus will be more refined, but the 52SE's uses a better quality bass driver, so swings and roundabouts really.

You could look out for a used pair of Special 25's, which originally retailed at about £2,500 (now £3,500), which you may pick up for around £1,500 I guess - it's just that they're pretty rare. I'd say they're the next logical step (I believe they use the same bass driver as the 52SE's, only with a better cabinet, crossover, and HF). In fact, if I recall correctly, the Special 25's uses the same bass driver as their Master series....

Of course, going this far might require a little more beef than your 8 Powers can cope with cleanly, so do bear this in mind.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

slakelin:
This is my first post so I hope this is the correct place to ask such a question. I have recently bought a Cyrus 8xpd QX amplifier for which I am using a Sonos ZP90 as the source. I also bough Spendor A5s which have been recommended as a good partner for the Cyrus by this magazine. They are linked by Chord Silver Screen cables.

I am having problems with this setup in that when played at a loud but still reasonable volume the amplifier cuts out with an overheating error. I reported this to the dealer and they sent me a replacement. However, the problem occurred with the new amp. After talking this over with the dealer they decided that the problem was due to using a variable volume output on the Sonos. I changed this to fixed and they again replaced the amp with a new one. However, the overheating still occurs. I have since tried the amp with a Cyrus cd player and with the psx-r power supply but the problem still happens.The amp is standing on its own on a shelf so has full ventilation.

I have now spoken to a local dealer who thinks this is because the A5s are particularly hard to drive as they require a lot of current and so need a more powerful amp. Has anyone had similar problems? If so should I replace the amp with a more powerful one? Also, do I have any case of getting a refund for the original amp? I think that for nearly £2,000 and the numerous positive reviews it is not unreasonable to expect the thing to work properly...

Thanks.

Hi slakelin

The 8XPD is a perfectly capable amplifier and can power the A5's as it has sufficient power for many. However as it is not maintaing stability at the levels which you require then (short of the mono's) i'll recommend you look at alternative brands.

New amplifiers to consider would be the NAD C165BEE/C275BEE combination. If are you are happy to also consider used equipment then amplification such as the Krell KAV-400xi, ATC SIA2-150 MK1 and Marantz PM94 are all worth a serious look. Rega's superb DAC will work well with any of these amplifiers.

Any of these amplifiers will significantly enahance the performance of the A5's at all levels. You should also be able to play them at considerably higher levels and for longer periods before they become unstable.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft