Cabling - the truth will out .....

[Craig M.]

JoelSim:Craig M.:aliEnRIK:
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.

Thats your opinion.

Clearly youve not tried the better ones out there (or your VERY lucky and have a near perfect mains supply and no EMI floating around)

every ones posts on this matter are their opinion, and just as valid as anyone elses.

unless you can prove with measurements to the rest of the forum users that your cables make a difference, then you are just sharing your opinion. not facts.

Yes, and my opinion is that a £300 offer is not enough to buy my Clearer Audio Silverline mains cables, that in itself should say something.

yes, it says that you, like everyone else who has responded, have an opinion. it proves nothing.

my point was, that a lot of people seem to feel they have to repeatedly state their opinion on mains cables whenever someone disagrees and posts a conflicting opinion as if by restating it they will suddenly say "you're right, what was i thinking". it will go round and round until the insults start. and unless the offer is for more then one silverline cable it says you're nuts as they retail for about half that.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Play nicely, please, everybody

 

[carter]

im being good miss

 

[the record spot]

Bell wire. It's where it's at.

 

[JoelSim]

Craig M.:JoelSim:Craig M.:aliEnRIK:
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.

Thats your opinion.

Clearly youve not tried the better ones out there (or your VERY lucky and have a near perfect mains supply and no EMI floating around)

every ones posts on this matter are their opinion, and just as valid as anyone elses.

unless you can prove with measurements to the rest of the forum users that your cables make a difference, then you are just sharing your opinion. not facts.

Yes, and my opinion is that a £300 offer is not enough to buy my Clearer Audio Silverline mains cables, that in itself should say something.

yes, it says that you, like everyone else who has responded, have an opinion. it proves nothing.

my point was, that a lot of people seem to feel they have to repeatedly state their opinion on mains cables whenever someone disagrees and posts a conflicting opinion as if by restating it they will suddenly say "you're right, what was i thinking". it will go round and round until the insults start. and unless the offer is for more then one silverline cable it says you're nuts as they retail for about half that.

2 Silverlines, with upgraded plugs on both ends, RRP £518.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Craig M.:aliEnRIK:
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.

Thats your opinion.

Clearly youve not tried the better ones out there (or your VERY lucky and have a near perfect mains supply and no EMI floating around)

every ones posts on this matter are their opinion, and just as valid as anyone elses.

unless you can prove with measurements to the rest of the forum users that your cables make a difference, then you are just sharing your opinion. not facts.

Let me know HOW I measure extra detail in a musical sequence and ill get back to you

 

[True Blue]

How can anyone comment on how I view the World, how can anyone tell me I cant hear things with my ears. Who can tell me what something tastes like, feels like.

All senses are perception that only the individual experiences, these things CANNOT be proved scientifically. FACT

 

[Anonymous]

sometimes people spend a lot of money on an item such as a power cable and then 'claim' to hear 'subtle' differences

could it be that the person is just trying to justify a valid reason as why he spent that amount of money?

In all honesty, I am not in a position to pass comment, as I have no experience (yet) in high cost power cables, but thought I'd just pass comment (and wind some people up)

 

[Anonymous]

True Blue:
How can anyone comment on how I view the World, how can anyone tell me I cant hear things with my ears. Who can tell me what something tastes like, feels like.

All senses are perception that only the individual experiences, these things CANNOT be proved scientifically. FACT

so how do you cope with the earth being round not to mention the fact we stick to it

science does have a role somewhere you know

 

[True Blue]

I absolutely agree that Science is fundamental to everything around us, what I am saying is that Science cannot measure a personal perception.

 

[True Blue]

one off:True Blue:
How can anyone comment on how I view the World, how can anyone tell me I cant hear things with my ears. Who can tell me what something tastes like, feels like.

All senses are perception that only the individual experiences, these things CANNOT be proved scientifically. FACT

so how do you cope with the earth being round not to mention the fact we stick to it

science does have a role somewhere you know

I also find the arguement about me "coping" with the earth being flat and the fact we stick to it rather insulting due to the fact that I am a qualified Marine Engineer holding an Unlimited Chief Engineers ticket, Authorised to work on High Voltage Electrical systems and hold a B Eng in Mechanical Engineering. So thankyou I am aware of the Physics involved

 

[Anonymous]

fair enough no insults intended just innocent fun based on how your earlier post could have been interpreted

 

[True Blue]

Accepted One-off. But again interpretation cant be Scientifically proven

so does that mean it does not exist??

 

[gpi]

one off:True Blue:
How can anyone comment on how I view the World, how can anyone tell me I cant hear things with my ears. Who can tell me what something tastes like, feels like.

All senses are perception that only the individual experiences, these things CANNOT be proved scientifically. FACT

so how do you cope with the earth being round not to mention the fact we stick to it

science does have a role somewhere you know

Really? 😱

 

[hammill]

True Blue:Accepted One-off. But again interpretation cant be Scientifically proven

so does that mean it does not exist??
I agree with you to an extent. What the colour blue looks like to me may be completely different to what it looks like to you. It is also true however that are perceptions unreliable. For example, studies have shown that if you tell people that one bottle of wine costs £5 and another costs £50 they turn to prefer the £50 bottle. Swapping which bottle you tell them is worth £50 does not change the results- they still prefer the £50 bottle. It would not be surprising if the same applied to £50 mains cables.

 

[True Blue]

Again agreed, however as in my earlier post on this thread I CAN hear and see a differnece. I am happy and I am also happy that I have not wasted money. If others cant see or hear differences I am envious.

 

[Craig M.]

as far as i'm aware, no one has ever been able to identify mains cables purely by listening.

i'm not claiming anything myself, as stated everyones opinion is equally valid, but still, as far as i'm aware no one has ever been able to tell them apart, when they can't see the cable.

and as to how extra detail could be measured in a musical sequence, i would have thought that was easy. record both pieces and compare the files on a computer?

also, peoples perceptions can be altered by all kinds of things. that is a fact.

anyway, i wasn't commenting on whether anyones opinion was more valid then someone elses, maybe there genuinely are differences between power cables, maybe it's a pyschoacoustic effect.

it was more a comment on the utter futility of cable threads.

 

[Anonymous]

hammill:True Blue:Accepted One-off. But again interpretation cant be Scientifically proven

so does that mean it does not exist??
I agree with you to an extent. What the colour blue looks like to me may be completely different to what it looks like to you. It is also true however that are perceptions unreliable. For example, studies have shown that if you tell people that one bottle of wine costs £5 and another costs £50 they turn to prefer the £50 bottle. Swapping which bottle you tell them is worth £50 does not change the results- they still prefer the £50 bottle. It would not be surprising if the same applied to £50 mains cables.

Fair point that .... and ...... how do you then allow for the situation where people hear/taste differences between cables/items of the same cost/price?

The simple fact to life is that ALL we have is our own perceptions on ANYTHING.

Our perception of the world around us is reality to us.

So - if in my perception, I hear a difference in a cable - then that difference exists and is real to me.

It doesn't really matter if it's a blind test, or I know what it costs - since if it costs more and I know it ... and that 'enables' me to hear a difference that you don't hear - then that reality means it is better - for me.

If the method of my being 'enabled' does not apply to you [whoever you are!] then that's fine - it is still a reality for me and that is all I need.

I state it as ... 'enabled' .... because I wish to draw attention to the fact that it doesn't matter if there is scientific evidence for what the so called outcome 'should' be ............ If I hear a difference, so be it. And although I use the words 'I' and 'me' - I refer to anyone here who has heard a difference and so chooses that the cabling 'truth' is that differences do exist.

It comes down to how humans filter the world around them to create their 'model of the world'...... and we all have a different model of the world.

 

[Anonymous]

the problem i have is that £500 buys me a better cd player and im prepared to bet that will make more difference to the sound than any mains cable could

also the whole mains cable phenomenon is predicated on having noisy mains and since no-one ever tests to see whether this is true or not money spent on them is always going to be a gamble

 

[Anonymous]

BigAir:So - if in my perception, I hear a difference in a cable - then that difference exists and is real to me.

But chances are you'll hear different in another setting, or if you're in another mood.

What many audiophiles do, then, is to fall into an endless 'upgrade' spiral.

Which might be OK, if they've got the money to buy new gear, the conscience to spend their money on useless things when people are starving, and don't have a family that suffers from their mania...

But if you're a hi-fi journalist who're supposed to guide potential buyers, claiming that a cable sounds better means presenting your own subjective and conditional judgement as an objective truth. Which is hardly ethical.

If you're a salesman, actually earning money from making people buy your stuff, it's not ethical at all. It's bordering on fraud.

 

[Anonymous]

the problem i have is that £500 buys me a better cd player and im
prepared to bet that will make more difference to the sound than any
mains cable could
also the whole mains cable phenomenon is
predicated on having noisy mains and since no-one ever tests to see
whether this is true or not money spent on them is always going to be a
gamble

 

[Anonymous]

£500 may buy you a new CD player ... and that depends where you are at in the budget with existing kit.

My CD player is 'rather more' than that and a £500 power cable on it can give a suitable upgrade in 'subjective' performance, for now .... until such time as I am willing/able to upgrade the player itself - which could cost in excess of £5k over and above what it could be sold for.......

Fahnsen - I am not sure what you are getting at here?

You say we'll likely only hear if different in another setting, or in another mood ..... how do you know? And even if that were the case, then that could be said to apply for anything we ever buy/do - so should nobody ever buy anything, due to that assumption??!

Is there some other agenda here - with your comments on spending money on hi-fi rather than feeding the third world - if so, then maybe you are on the wrong forum perhaps - unless I've misunderstood that sentence about starving people......?

I'm not convinced that journalists do state their opinion as an objective truth.... do they? They say X is better than Y in context of XYZ with ABC kit in PQR room ....... and we know it's what they hear and that all such things are subjective anyway.

How does a salesman MAKE anyone buy anything??? People listen and make up their own mind - so do they really need someone protecting their sensibilities with an ethics committee ?

Interesting comments though.....

 

[Andrew Everard]

Fahnsen:But if you're a hi-fi journalist who're supposed to guide potential buyers, claiming that a cable sounds better means presenting your own subjective and conditional judgement as an objective truth. Which is hardly ethical.

No-one is 'claiming' anything; we simply report our findings and opinions. Yes, opinions - with not a hint of passing anything off as 'an objective truth.'

Fahnsen:If you're a salesman,
actually earning money from making people buy your stuff, it's not
ethical at all. It's bordering on fraud.

In both cases, no-one is forcing people to buy anything. I really do think you should credit people with more ability to make choices for themselves than you seem to. Or are you suggesting that all consumers are stupid?

 

[hammill]

Andrew Everard:

Fahnsen:But if you're a hi-fi journalist who're supposed to guide potential buyers, claiming that a cable sounds better means presenting your own subjective and conditional judgement as an objective truth. Which is hardly ethical.

No-one is 'claiming' anything; we simply report our findings and opinions. Yes, opinions - with not a hint of passing anything off as 'an objective truth.'

Fahnsen:If you're a salesman, actually earning money from making people buy your stuff, it's not ethical at all. It's bordering on fraud.

In both cases, no-one is forcing people to buy anything. I really do think you should credit people with more ability to make choices for themselves than you seem to. Or are you suggesting that all consumers are stupid?

Given the sales of homeopathic medicine, a fair number are.

 

[JoelSim]

one off:

the problem i have is that £500 buys me a better cd player and im prepared to bet that will make more difference to the sound than any mains cable could
also the whole mains cable phenomenon is predicated on having noisy mains and since no-one ever tests to see whether this is true or not money spent on them is always going to be a gamble No it's not