Question Will the ‘exciter effect’ be the next best thing in hi-fi.?

AJM1981

Well-known member
Valve amps are obviously not only bought for their appearance. Their signature touch is why they are popular among purists. But rather than magic, this is completely emulatable.

The ‘no aides’ argument
When we demand hi-fi as uncoloured as possible, valve amps are totally contrary to that idea. They add harmonic distortion and more as specified below.

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Just like this box does for pro audio.
exciter.png

An exciter (also called a harmonic exciter or aural exciter) is an audio signal processing technique used to enhance a signal by dynamic equalization, phase manipulation, harmonic synthesis of (usually) high frequency signals, and through the addition of subtle harmonic distortion. Dynamic equalization involves variation of the equalizer characteristics in the time domain as a function of the input. Due to the varying nature, noise is reduced compared to static equalizers. Harmonic synthesis involves the creation of higher order harmonics from the fundamental frequency signals present in the recording. As noise is usually more prevalent at higher frequencies, the harmonics are derived from a purer frequency band resulting in clearer highs. Exciters are also used to synthesize harmonics of low frequency signals to simulate deep bass in smaller speakers.

Uses​

  • Making vocals sound more "breathy". This is why the original product was called an Aural Exciter
  • Enhancing dull recordings, especially analog reel-to-reel tape recordings that have lost their "sparkle" due to repeated overdubs
“Originally made in valve (tube) based equipment, they are now implemented as part of a digital signal processor, often trying to emulate analogue exciters. Exciters are mostly found as plug-ins for sound editing software and in sound enhancement processors.”

In other words, the effect came before or along with valve amps. But the way they are configured is also implementable into other kinds of amps. Now, since there is totally no magic and every signature is reproducible. Dsp is a wonderful thing and there is definitely a market for that among audiophiles, who would want an accessible ‘valve sound’ without spending a lot on a good valve amp and a higher energy bill.

I don’t know if Yamaha implemented this on all its digital models and for what time. But the Wxa-50 amp is one of the amps as an example of which has the exciter effect as an option aboard (and direct mode for the valve amp colouration opposer)


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Yamaha calls it enhancer, another brand might call it exciter or something else. If anyone knows other brands that apply this in technique somewhere in their current line up amps, feel free to add them.

In case of Yamaha they are not advertising this, its description of what it does is kind of vague for the average user. Most likely it might stay like a vague description since the ‘no aides’ group will remain vocal and sceptical users might not like the idea.

In my opinion having affordable class D amps that can sound like a valve amp is in my opinion a great potential leap in affordable modern hi-fi. It might be or totally not be a nail in the coffin of real valve amps. Personally I think it mainly bites into the affordable valve amp market, but it all depends on how visible it will become and how it will unfold into the market.

What is your opinion on this?

(Ps credits for contributing info about the exciter effect to user DvdDoug on the audioscience forum.)
 
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AJM1981

Well-known member
My answer to your thread title question is NO.
(If they're into hi-fi for the right reasons, their music does all the exciting they need).
The reply suggests that you personally or the group (whoever is in) you feel attached to is into hifi for the right reasons and people who like valve amps or these signatures aren’t.

I think those people are probably into hi-fi for all the good reasons as much as we are. But given the musical component apart from the way it looks, I consider it quite welcome to have that signature sound accessible to class D owners as well.
 

AJM1981

Well-known member
OK. Not sure hifi does 'next big things'. With the exception of streaming, it seems to me just to have been a slow process of evolution for donkey's years - punctuated by the odd seismic event (such as CD's arrival).
True. I was surprised about how long people were still be able to use amps and tuners from the 70s. Tuners became obsolete museum pieces here in The Netherlands a couple of years ago since it was dropped from cable connections with DAB+ as a replacement. Workarounds might be there, but not worth it.

stackable classic amps with tons of rca connections were also ok for a long time. Digital connections like toslink, hdmi etc for audio are “relatively” new in terms of mass embracement.
 

aversaurus

Well-known member
Nothing is wrong with liking a warmer sound took me a long time to realise that whatever system I have I need to have valves in it somewhere I just like the sound.As for the enchancer I'm sure some people will love it some will won't go near it .It's a thing not the next big thing
 

Gray

Well-known member
The reply suggests that you personally or the group (whoever is in) you feel attached to is into hifi for the right reasons and people who like valve amps or these signatures aren’t.

I think those people are probably into hi-fi for all the good reasons as much as we are. But given the musical component apart from the way it looks, I consider it quite welcome to have that signature sound accessible to class D owners as well.
No, each to their own when it comes to taste that's for sure 👍
But it seems that some are more into the equipment than the music.
They can't have enough switches and options, good for them.

As far as I'm concerned they can keep all their tone controls, loudness functions, DAC filters and 'exciters'.
Just give me an amp that takes an input and faithfully makes it louder - enough to drive speakers adequately.
 

abacus

Well-known member
If you are going to use it for music production (You are putting together a home studio built around your computer) then yes, otherwise no.
If you want to re-master some recordings you don't like, then all you need is Audacity for your computer, as this is all you will need. for hi fi use. (Unless you want to go the full home studio route)

Bill
 

Gray

Well-known member
Nothing is wrong with liking a warmer sound
True, but it must be disappointing at times when your sound is too 'real':

"How was the concert you went to last night, I know you've been looking forward to it for years?"

"No good, sadly the sound wasn't warm enough for me - I was a bit too close to the stage, the drum symbols were too bright, I needed an exciter or something to warm the sound up" 🙂
 
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AJM1981

Well-known member
No, each to their own when it comes to taste that's for sure 👍
But it seems that some are more into the equipment than the music.
They can't have enough switches and options, good for them.

As far as I'm concerned they can keep all their tone controls, loudness functions, DAC filters and 'exciters'.
Just give me an amp that takes an input and faithfully makes it louder - enough to drive speakers adequately.

I guess we can conclude that you dislike the signature of valve amps by having read about it (?) and along that path you dislike anything that shares that exact same signature and compare the valve signature to a loudness switch.

You also made it clear that you are more into music or whatever ungraspable hollow comment that might be on a forum about hifi gear in a topic about.. just that.

Fine to me that you just want to hook up a set and listen to music instead of wasting time in another way. I am also into music. Composing, production and listening. But I am also interested in history of music and gear and how things kind of connect in a logical sense, despite being far from an engineer or programmer. Just in for fun.
 
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Gray

Well-known member
You also made it clear that you are more into music or whatever ungraspable hollow comment that might be on a forum about hifi gear in a topic about.. just that.
If you like a coloured sound then good for you (y)

I shouldn't really need to, but it seems that, for your benefit, I need to explain my 'ungraspable hollow comment' .......to help you to grasp a less 'hollow' meaning ;)

Yes, you're right, this is a hi-fi forum.
Ask yourself the meaning of the term 'High Fidelity'.
As a music lover first, that's what I seek from my hi-fi. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm also a bit technical so I do like the equipment too.
I bought a Behringer effects processor for a bit of fun - all sorts of phasing / flanging effects.
At one time, I think they also sold a processor for emulating the valve sound, you'd probably love that.

To be very clear, I'm not telling you, or anyone else what's the right type of sound for you - I wouldn't dare (y)
But, whatever else it is, high fidelity ('true to the original') is not deliberate distortion.

P.S. I didn't compare valve sound with a loudness switch - its actually been a while since I've heard a valve sound (I've got them in a couple of reel to reel tape recorders).
I don't know what the modern valve sound is - I think you're the one that's mentioned it being added distortion :unsure: If it is, then it's not for me, that's all.

Probably why I never put salt, pepper or vinegar on food - don't need anything added.
 
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AJM1981

Well-known member
Do you like your coffee black with cream or milk it's still coffee.hi fidelity with a warmer sound is still hi fidelity it all comes down to how you take it what's your preference
If coffee would be the metaphor I would describe the valve coloration as a slightly darker roast compared to regular. It is a barely noticable difference comparable to a 'having music played through two types of loudspeakers kind of difference'.
 

AJM1981

Well-known member
If you like a coloured sound then good for you (y)

I shouldn't really need to, but it seems that, for your benefit, I need to explain my 'ungraspable hollow comment' .......to help you to grasp a less 'hollow' meaning ;)

Yes, you're right, this is a hi-fi forum.
Ask yourself the meaning of the term 'High Fidelity'.
As a music lover first, that's what I seek from my hi-fi. Nothing more, nothing less.
or a strange urge to put users into categories gets in the way here.

There is no secret as to what high fidelity means assuming you are not a fanatic vinyl roll or grammophone user that regularly listens to just that and AM radio

The chance is also quite small that you just took your system home as in an impulse purchase. The comment about music also strangely tries to exclude the possibility that someone else would be a music lover first.

I'm also a bit technical so I do like the equipment too.
I bought a Behringer effects processor for a bit of fun - all sorts of phasing / flanging effects.
At one time, I think they also sold a processor for emulating the valve sound, you'd probably love that.
For a studio perhaps.

To be very clear, I'm not telling you, or anyone else what's the right type of sound for you - I wouldn't dare (y)
But, whatever else it is, high fidelity ('true to the original') is not deliberate distortion.
Harmonic distortion is not the same as regular distortion.

P.S. I didn't compare valve sound with a loudness switch - its actually been a while since I've heard a valve sound (I've got them in a couple of reel to reel tape recorders).
I don't know what the modern valve sound is - I think you're the one that's mentioned it being added distortion :unsure: If it is, then it's not for me, that's all.

Probably why I never put salt, pepper or vinegar on food - don't need anything added-

If there is your post with a sequence of examples like valve amps / enhancer, tone controls and a loudness switch. I assume you do a sum up of aides you dislike.
 
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AJM1981

Well-known member
There is no such thing as regular distortion, but there are different types, with harmonic being one.

Bill
if I stab a hole into my woofer, I get the audible distortion that any regular can picture. Not sure if it is possible with Kevlar (think I will f*** it up in another way when doing that), but paper cones allow this easily, which eventually led to the birth of rock music.

You might want to throw it into the same container but harmonic distortion doesn’t align there.
 
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Gray

Well-known member
if I stab a hole into my woofer, I get the distortion that any regular can picture.

Harmonic distortion doesn’t align there.
I'll just leave the Cambridge dictionary to give the definition of distortion:

'A change to the intended or true meaning of something'

If you want a change to the true meaning of your music, then distortion sounds like a good idea.
Enjoy it 👍
 

Witterings

Well-known member
I think it's funny when people get hung up with opinions in a thread like this and it can only be "the pursist" of sounds.

If you stand next to a live band, firstly the guitar has a switch for the various pick ups on it which alter the tone ..... and most guitaists will have several effects pedals that each have their own gains / varying levels of effect / distortion.
Standing right next to a totally unprocessed drum kit is a pretty harsh and horrible sound, I was given a mic kit one christmas and recorded my drums onto my PC and they sounded awful .... my brother in law who's into composing / mixing came round and in 10 minutes had transformed it to sound as it would on a record.

The statement "It should be as the artist intended" .... unless you're at a gig with no amplification at all, you're not hearing it as the "artist intended" .... you're hearing it as the mixing / sound engineer intended which is exactly the same with anything that's ever been recorded.

In essence, the sound engineer is mixing the ingredients, some people will like their Chilli hotter than others, if it's served up and you prefer it with a bit more spice, please feel free to add a bit more sauce.

BUT ... whatever record you're listening to it never sounds the same as a live un-amplified band and has varying degress of distortion / effects added at every stage.
 
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Gray

Well-known member
The statement "It should be as the artist intended" .... unless you're at a gig with no amplification at all, you're not hearing it as the "artist intended" .... you're hearing it as the mixing / sound engineer intended which is exactly the same with anything that's ever been recorded.
If the artist is any good, he will have chosen his live sound or recording engineer.
In a live venue, he will have done a sound check.
Before releasing a recording he should really have at least listened to see if it meets his approval.

After that of course, all bets are off as to how much the artist-intended sound can be ruined - the CD loudness wars, playback equipment in horrifically reverberant rooms, people adding deliberate distortion with 'exciters'.....

We all know that even if everything could be 'perfect' you can never reproduce the original sound, but surely the idea of hi-fi, is to get as close as possible.
 

Friesiansam

Well-known member
We all know that even if everything could be 'perfect' you can never reproduce the original sound, but surely the idea of hi-fi, is to get as close as possible.
That is traditionally so but, as I see it, surely a sound that pleases you, is more important. If a "purist" doesn't think your system is right, tough, it's your money and your ears, not his.
 

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