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is this the reason for failed cable upgrades ?

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the reason, i believe, many fail to hear any differences when attempting a cable upgrade is simple....you are comparing cables that are basically the same !

many interconnects, for example, that are sold for up to £100 per half metre are simply the freebie models with just a thicker outer plastic / rubber, often coloured brightly to attract more attention as such, so in effect they are the same / no different to the freebie efforts that come bundled with kit...

if you want to experience what a cable upgrade can achieve with your system you will have test cables that have a completely different design to the freebie models you may already be using.

a prime example would be the ribbon designs from the likes of nordost or the woven designs from kimber. sadly however, and i'm firmly in this camp, the price of these and other "hi-end" cables is frankly extortionate...

i understand these manufacturers are not charities but its the high price and not the (subtle) differences that a cable change (can) make that angers many in the hifi hobby.

i believe (as an extreme example) that if the nordost odin or kimber select cables etc were also priced for as little as £1 (like the freebie interconnect cables can be purchased for) then more people would be using these "exotic" designs as the ridiculous price differences would be eliminated and people would then appreciate the difference, even though subtle, that different designed cables can make. i believe these subtle differences can help tune a system to make it more enjoyable.

so to conclude if you going to test cables, with a view to upgrading, look for a different design completely to the cables you already own !
 
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12th Monkey

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Without wishing to seem unpleasant, that seems rather like you are regurgitating - have you actually tried any of the cables on which you are pontificating?

(I really do think you'd be more satisfied if you listened to more music and spent less time searching the net for hifi 'wisdom'!)
 
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Without wishing to seem unpleasant, that seems rather like you are regurgitating - have you actually tried any of the cables on which you are pontificating?
i have tried woven kimber cables in my system(s) and experienced subtle differences / improvements when compared to freebie / basic designs. not huge differences but they were there in both interconnect and speaker cable designs. i have no doubt the nordost cables would give such differences also due to their different design but i have not tried there designs i'll admit.

point i was making is that many people try cables that are basically the same as the ones they already own hence they never hear any differences.

also the stupid high cost of the "exotic" designs stops people ever testing cables that may give them the upgrade that others experience.

may i ask what are your thoughts as i see you use van den hul interconnects ?

(oh and i'm listening to aphex twin as i type - i do both !)
 
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12th Monkey

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Listening is not an activity done in conjunction with other things! ;)

I think I'll keep my counsel on cables - I've expressed my views elsewhere and it always ends up as never the twain shall meet. Life's too short.
 
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Listening is not an activity done in conjunction with other things! ;)

I think I'll keep my counsel on cables - I've expressed my views elsewhere and it always ends up as never the twain shall meet. Life's too short.
fair enough i respect you for that. you came in for a lot of stick for your thread on adding lead weights to your cd player which was bordering on abuse. where were the moderators then i wonder...
 

TrevC

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Why would anyone expect one interconnect to sound different to another? If they lose no signal all of them can only ever sound identical to one another, and how would any short piece of wire lose any signal? You are kidding yourselves.
Speaker cables need to be low resistance so they don't lose the signal as heat. The answer? Use thick ones that are as low resistance as possible.
 
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12th Monkey

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I've got to know the naysayers on that one and I'm at peace. The mods are pretty good overall, I think. It was a job I had to fulfil at a different forum many years ago and believe me, it's a thankless task. Damned if you do...
 
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Al ears

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I've got to know the naysayers on that one and I'm at peace. The mods are pretty good overall, I think. It was a job I had to fulfil at a different forum many years ago and believe me, it's a thankless task. Damned if you do...
Thank you for that, and you're right, I was at a point of stepping down but then I thought again. I have enjoyed this forum for many years and wasn't going to let a few stop me doing that.
As far as I recall your thread didn't actually end up as another cable thread and we do try not to interfere in general. It did get a bit of stick but words are words, if you feel any modifications you make to your system constitutes an improvement then why listen to others that tell you it's impossible.
Doubters and those that are convinced they are right tend to come out of the woodwork on all forums and they have to be endured.
It might be so much easier if some read and inwardly digested the forums guidelines.
 

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Why would anyone expect one interconnect to sound different to another? If they lose no signal all of them can only ever sound identical to one another, and how would any short piece of wire lose any signal? You are kidding yourselves.
Speaker cables need to be low resistance so they don't lose the signal as heat. The answer? Use thick ones that are as low resistance as possible.
rfi rejection ?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGWu5bxX0Bw
 
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plus 1

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I've got to know the naysayers on that one and I'm at peace. The mods are pretty good overall, I think. It was a job I had to fulfil at a different forum many years ago and believe me, it's a thankless task. Damned if you do...
but you posted a thread with your experiences that they did not agree with. it was no reason for the barrage of abuse that followed. the moderators should of stepped in.
 

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Thank you for that, and you're right, I was at a point of stepping down but then I thought again. I have enjoyed this forum for many years and wasn't going to let a few stop me doing that.
As far as I recall your thread didn't actually end up as another cable thread and we do try not to interfere in general. It did get a bit of stick but words are words, if you feel any modifications you make to your system constitutes an improvement then why listen to others that tell you it's impossible.
Doubters and those that are convinced they are right tend to come out of the woodwork on all forums and they have to be endured.
It might be so much easier if some read and inwardly digested the forums guidelines.
if you considered stepping down as a moderator because of me apologies and thats genuine.

i just think if people get angry, even abusive, if another forum user has a different opinion it needs addressing. a debate however, fine, its what were (generally) here for right ?

i have been dragged in to this "type" of behaviour but as i see it i only give as good as i get. fact is if someone consistently posts opinions you don't agree with either accept they think differently / have a different opinion or use the ignore button function.

anyway back to the op !
 

12th Monkey

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but you posted a thread with your experiences that they did not agree with. it was no reason for the barrage of abuse that followed. the moderators should of stepped in.
I've just re-read the entire thread, and I wouldn't describe it as a torrent of abuse - some good-natured p/s-taking, sure, the discovery that Mike Hunt is even more opinionated than me(!), and early indications that I would end up using the ignore feature with another user. The forum's a much more enjoyable place when you filter out the contributions of those who think they know it all.

I'm also guessing that as a newbie (albeit one who was here donkey's years ago), starting with something off the wall was likely to generate a degree of suspicion - but people acclimatise to you, so I think if I'd posted something like that now the reaction would be a little different.

But (genuinely) thanks for the concern!
 
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DougK

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Thank you for that, and you're right, I was at a point of stepping down but then I thought again. I have enjoyed this forum for many years and wasn't going to let a few stop me doing that.
As far as I recall your thread didn't actually end up as another cable thread and we do try not to interfere in general. It did get a bit of stick but words are words, if you feel any modifications you make to your system constitutes an improvement then why listen to others that tell you it's impossible.
Doubters and those that are convinced they are right tend to come out of the woodwork on all forums and they have to be endured.
It might be so much easier if some read and inwardly digested the forums guidelines.
You do a sterling job as a Mod, Al, so keep up the good work my friend. I have not to hit the ignore button on any member here but I have taken the decision to stop posting and just become a lurker... you have one less cretin to deal with, Al :)

However, I will post on any article where I believe I can offer good advice and experience from a personal perspective regarding kit I have owned or currently own, but that will be the extent of my input.

Good luck gents, keep well and stay safe in these uncertain times.
 
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You do a sterling job as a Mod, Al, so keep up the good work my friend. I have not to hit the ignore button on any member here but I have taken the decision to stop posting and just become a lurker... you have one less cretin to deal with, Al :)

However, I will post on any article where I believe I can offer good advice and experience from a personal perspective regarding kit I have owned or currently own, but that will be the extent of my input.

Good luck gents, keep well and stay safe in these uncertain times.
or you could just block me, like you said you were considering, and then post to your hearts content !
 

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No he doesn't.
russ explains how this woven (kimber) cable cancels rfi - from the 1 min mark.

he then explains how this helps in a hifi system - from 1 min 19 sec mark.

russ then confirms their are two "white papers" that cover this in more detail - from the 2 min 20 sec mark.
 

TrevC

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Perhaps you can explain, I thought he was talking bollocks. In that blurry video it looked like he was holding a speaker cable. Speaker cables picking up RFI doesn't matter because it's grounded at the amplifier, just like the screen of a screened wire interconnect.
 

abacus

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russ explains how this woven (kimber) cable cancels rfi - from the 1 min mark.

he then explains how this helps in a hifi system - from 1 min 19 sec mark.

russ then confirms their are two "white papers" that cover this in more detail - from the 2 min 20 sec mark.
This video was posted in a previous thread, and as I said there I have not been able to find the white papers mentioned so cannot confirm or deny.

However the video is quite old, and while I am not 100% sure (It was some time ago) I believe it was dismissed as the papers had not been independently verified, (Peer reviewed) hence probably the reason they don’t appear to be available. (If you can find the links to them please post so that I can analyse the results)

Bill
 

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Perhaps you can explain, I thought he was talking bollocks. In that blurry video it looked like he was holding a speaker cable. Speaker cables picking up RFI doesn't matter because it's grounded at the amplifier, just like the screen of a screened wire interconnect.
trevc i like your style !
(if you think its bollocks i'll leave it at that !)

and yes its speaker cable hes holding but the woven cable / r.f.i reducing "theory" explanation covers their mains, interconnect and speaker cables.
 

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This video was posted in a previous thread, and as I said there I have not been able to find the white papers mentioned so cannot confirm or deny.

However the video is quite old, and while I am not 100% sure (It was some time ago) I believe it was dismissed as the papers had not been independently verified, (Peer reviewed) hence probably the reason they don’t appear to be available. (If you can find the links to them please post so that I can analyse the results)

Bill
have you tried asking kimber kable or russ andrews accessories direct for the white papers ?

i'll admit they are not currently on either companies website...
 

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This video was posted in a previous thread, and as I said there I have not been able to find the white papers mentioned so cannot confirm or deny.

However the video is quite old, and while I am not 100% sure (It was some time ago) I believe it was dismissed as the papers had not been independently verified, (Peer reviewed) hence probably the reason they don’t appear to be available. (If you can find the links to them please post so that I can analyse the results)

Bill
i have found this although it is not the white paper(s) mentioned i believe :-
 

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