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Is OLED burn-in a problem? We want your input on one of TV’s hottest topics!
fatboyslimfast
Well-known member
- Jan 10, 2008
- 158
- 0
- 18,590
Ok, time I waded in here. As far as I can tell, cables make a difference.
I've tried four different types of speaker cable that I had lying around, as I wanted a certain sound but couldn't at the time afford the "correct" cable for my system (Naim).
I started off with QED 79 Strand. Reasonable and neutral, but lacking in excitement.
Secondly was Gale 315 strand. Definitely more bass, but lost the top end a bit.
Thirdly was Maplin "High Quality" speaker cable. £13 for 20m!. Least said the better, but come on - 65p a metre, what was I really expecting...probably a worthwhile upgrade for micro systems though.
Finally, I tried some Fisual Pearl 2.5mm. £1.60 a metre, and I can say confidently that it gives the sound I'm after - open with tight bass and a clear top end, without being too sharp. Now, it might not be as "good" as Naim A5, or as fast as a Nordost, but it works for me, and at 1/10th the price!
So yes - from my experience, speaker cables at least, make a difference. A worthwhile one at that.
I've tried four different types of speaker cable that I had lying around, as I wanted a certain sound but couldn't at the time afford the "correct" cable for my system (Naim).
I started off with QED 79 Strand. Reasonable and neutral, but lacking in excitement.
Secondly was Gale 315 strand. Definitely more bass, but lost the top end a bit.
Thirdly was Maplin "High Quality" speaker cable. £13 for 20m!. Least said the better, but come on - 65p a metre, what was I really expecting...probably a worthwhile upgrade for micro systems though.
Finally, I tried some Fisual Pearl 2.5mm. £1.60 a metre, and I can say confidently that it gives the sound I'm after - open with tight bass and a clear top end, without being too sharp. Now, it might not be as "good" as Naim A5, or as fast as a Nordost, but it works for me, and at 1/10th the price!
So yes - from my experience, speaker cables at least, make a difference. A worthwhile one at that.
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
This particular Isotek cable may have been a waste of money, that doesn't mean they all are.
This particular Isotek cable may have been a waste of money, that doesn't mean they all are.
Whilst I'll spend money on a cable, I doubt I'd be venturing into the three or four figure sums that you can achieve with some bits of wire. I just don't believe the claims put forth for a kettle wire costing a couple of thousand. Snappy marketing and the phrase "a fool and his money" seem good bed partners here.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2007
- 494
- 334
- 19,270
the record spot:Whilst I'll spend money on a cable, I doubt I'd be venturing into the three or four figure sums that you can achieve with some bits of wire. I just don't believe the claims put forth for a kettle wire costing a couple of thousand. Snappy marketing and the phrase "a fool and his money" seem good bed partners here.
Completely agree. I am completely convinced about the worth of decent quality (sub £100) interconnects and speaker cables but I do feel that there are sensible limits and that it is all too easy to go too far in that search for the 'nth' degree (as IDC so eloquently put it).
I won't be going further than Rumour 2 with my speaker cable (it seems perfectly good to me) and the only cable change I may make is to go back from Crimson to Chameleon Silver Plus for my main interconnect.
Completely agree. I am completely convinced about the worth of decent quality (sub £100) interconnects and speaker cables but I do feel that there are sensible limits and that it is all too easy to go too far in that search for the 'nth' degree (as IDC so eloquently put it).
I won't be going further than Rumour 2 with my speaker cable (it seems perfectly good to me) and the only cable change I may make is to go back from Crimson to Chameleon Silver Plus for my main interconnect.
al7478:
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
Not according to the discerning listeners in the mag's Big Question feature...
I am sorry, but that test showed nothing of the sort. The test changed mains cable AND added the mains conditioner at the same time. It is impossible to tell which made the difference. It could be the cable, the conditioner or a combination of the two.
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
Not according to the discerning listeners in the mag's Big Question feature...
I am sorry, but that test showed nothing of the sort. The test changed mains cable AND added the mains conditioner at the same time. It is impossible to tell which made the difference. It could be the cable, the conditioner or a combination of the two.
Some people hear differences. Some people even hear differences between digital cables, where scientific facts make audible differences virtually impossible.
Actually there's several tests showing that people who claim to hear differences between cables, also hear differences when they believe there has been a change, but in fact no change has been made.
And there's of course tests showing that such people do not hear changes when a change is made without them knowing it.
Fact is that people can only compare sound by really comparing. If it takes you 3 minutes (not to say 10) to replace a cable, you cant' possibly compare the sound of the new cable to the sound of the old one. You compare the sound of the new one to your imagination of the old one. Which is something very different. The only credible way to compare, is using a switchbox, not knowing which cables are actually used at any moment.
So much said, bad connections might degrade analogue sound. As some no-nonsense cable guru pointed out: If you hear a distinct improvement after replacing a cable with sufficient size with another cable, chances are you'd hear the same improvement if you'd cleaned and tightened the connection of the old one.
Actually there's several tests showing that people who claim to hear differences between cables, also hear differences when they believe there has been a change, but in fact no change has been made.
And there's of course tests showing that such people do not hear changes when a change is made without them knowing it.
Fact is that people can only compare sound by really comparing. If it takes you 3 minutes (not to say 10) to replace a cable, you cant' possibly compare the sound of the new cable to the sound of the old one. You compare the sound of the new one to your imagination of the old one. Which is something very different. The only credible way to compare, is using a switchbox, not knowing which cables are actually used at any moment.
So much said, bad connections might degrade analogue sound. As some no-nonsense cable guru pointed out: If you hear a distinct improvement after replacing a cable with sufficient size with another cable, chances are you'd hear the same improvement if you'd cleaned and tightened the connection of the old one.
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
They are not if the freebi cable is thinner then the wires in the wall, which is. It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime. I also noticed that some mains cables do make a difference on the source while not on the amp and vice versa. I only had subtle results with all the mains cable i tested, mostly a more relaxed sound as a result of upgrading your system from freebi cables. There was one exception from the cables i tested that made a very big difference, it was a cable that is also a CONDITIONING cable! It works as some kind of a mild power conditioner. The WireWorld cables do that and there are propably cables out there that work with the same pricipal, i just don't know which other brands.
They are not if the freebi cable is thinner then the wires in the wall, which is. It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime. I also noticed that some mains cables do make a difference on the source while not on the amp and vice versa. I only had subtle results with all the mains cable i tested, mostly a more relaxed sound as a result of upgrading your system from freebi cables. There was one exception from the cables i tested that made a very big difference, it was a cable that is also a CONDITIONING cable! It works as some kind of a mild power conditioner. The WireWorld cables do that and there are propably cables out there that work with the same pricipal, i just don't know which other brands.
hammill:al7478:
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
Not according to the discerning listeners in the mag's Big Question feature...
I am sorry, but that test showed nothing of the sort. The test changed mains cable AND added the mains conditioner at the same time. It is impossible to tell which made the difference. It could be the cable, the conditioner or a combination of the two.
Good point well made sir.
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
Not according to the discerning listeners in the mag's Big Question feature...
I am sorry, but that test showed nothing of the sort. The test changed mains cable AND added the mains conditioner at the same time. It is impossible to tell which made the difference. It could be the cable, the conditioner or a combination of the two.
Good point well made sir.
RCduck7:
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
They are not if the freebi cable is thinner then the wires in the wall, which is. It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime. I also noticed that some mains cables do make a difference on the source while not on the amp and vice versa. I only had subtle results with all the mains cable i tested, mostly a more relaxed sound as a result of upgrading your system from freebi cables. There was one exception from the cables i tested that made a very big difference, it was a cable that is also a CONDITIONING cable! It works as some kind of a mild power conditioner. The WireWorld cables do that and there are propably cables out there that work with the same pricipal, i just don't know which other brands.
im confused
why would thin or thick cables cause the amp to be more or less stressed and have a longer lifetime
if thats true im getting some 5 inch diameter cables
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
They are not if the freebi cable is thinner then the wires in the wall, which is. It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime. I also noticed that some mains cables do make a difference on the source while not on the amp and vice versa. I only had subtle results with all the mains cable i tested, mostly a more relaxed sound as a result of upgrading your system from freebi cables. There was one exception from the cables i tested that made a very big difference, it was a cable that is also a CONDITIONING cable! It works as some kind of a mild power conditioner. The WireWorld cables do that and there are propably cables out there that work with the same pricipal, i just don't know which other brands.
im confused
why would thin or thick cables cause the amp to be more or less stressed and have a longer lifetime
if thats true im getting some 5 inch diameter cables
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
Thats your opinion.
Clearly youve not tried the better ones out there (or your VERY lucky and have a near perfect mains supply and no EMI floating around)
Thats your opinion.
Clearly youve not tried the better ones out there (or your VERY lucky and have a near perfect mains supply and no EMI floating around)
RCduck7:
It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime.
Implies that the amp somehow has to drag the lecky out of the wall to use it. Clearly not true. The wires in the wall, and in the mains lead, are a zillion times thicker than that in the fuse in the plug (I'm talking UK) and, on mine at least, there's no problem getting those troublesome electrons through that particular bottleneck.
It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime.
Implies that the amp somehow has to drag the lecky out of the wall to use it. Clearly not true. The wires in the wall, and in the mains lead, are a zillion times thicker than that in the fuse in the plug (I'm talking UK) and, on mine at least, there's no problem getting those troublesome electrons through that particular bottleneck.
jc.com:RCduck7:
It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime.
Implies that the amp somehow has to drag the lecky out of the wall to use it. Clearly not true. The wires in the wall, and in the mains lead, are a zillion times thicker than that in the fuse in the plug (I'm talking UK) and, on mine at least, there's no problem getting those troublesome electrons through that particular bottleneck.
You mean you havn't replaced your fuse with a nice thick piece of copper.....
It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime.
Implies that the amp somehow has to drag the lecky out of the wall to use it. Clearly not true. The wires in the wall, and in the mains lead, are a zillion times thicker than that in the fuse in the plug (I'm talking UK) and, on mine at least, there's no problem getting those troublesome electrons through that particular bottleneck.
You mean you havn't replaced your fuse with a nice thick piece of copper.....
hammill:jc.com:RCduck7:
It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime.
Implies that the amp somehow has to drag the lecky out of the wall to use it. Clearly not true. The wires in the wall, and in the mains lead, are a zillion times thicker than that in the fuse in the plug (I'm talking UK) and, on mine at least, there's no problem getting those troublesome electrons through that particular bottleneck.
You mean you havn't replaced your fuse with a nice thick piece of copper.....
It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime.
Implies that the amp somehow has to drag the lecky out of the wall to use it. Clearly not true. The wires in the wall, and in the mains lead, are a zillion times thicker than that in the fuse in the plug (I'm talking UK) and, on mine at least, there's no problem getting those troublesome electrons through that particular bottleneck.
You mean you havn't replaced your fuse with a nice thick piece of copper.....
hammill:You mean you havn't replaced your fuse with a nice thick piece of copper.....
Or, as it's known in audiophile circles, a fuse jumper, made of 99.9999999999999997% pure copper/[insert metal or material i.e. carbon/composite of choice] surrounded by teflon/[insert sheath (I like that word almost as much as Prophylactic) material of choice] and treated by OxDeit/[insert expensive cable treatment of choice] after 9 million hours of avanced burn in for an extra £50.
Cynical, moi? Been there and done it. A bout of CA (Cables Anonymous) sorted me out...... until I bought a VDH Integration!
Cynical, moi? Been there and done it. A bout of CA (Cables Anonymous) sorted me out...... until I bought a VDH Integration!
one off:RCduck7:
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
They are not if the freebi cable is thinner then the wires in the wall, which is. It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime. I also noticed that some mains cables do make a difference on the source while not on the amp and vice versa. I only had subtle results with all the mains cable i tested, mostly a more relaxed sound as a result of upgrading your system from freebi cables. There was one exception from the cables i tested that made a very big difference, it was a cable that is also a CONDITIONING cable! It works as some kind of a mild power conditioner. The WireWorld cables do that and there are propably cables out there that work with the same pricipal, i just don't know which other brands.
im confused
why would thin or thick cables cause the amp to be more or less stressed and have a longer lifetime
if thats true im getting some 5 inch diameter cables
I's not as simple as that. But where i live in Belgium we have a standard that electric wires in the walls should be 2.5mm diameter for mains and 1.5mm for switching on the lights. Freebi cables are often less then 1.5mm diameter!! Sure an amp wouldn't ask as much current then an electric stove but music is a complex thing. There's a lot happening before music comes through the speakers, there are more components in the amp and other devices asking for current, so you can make the amp work at it's best as a good start. It's the foundation of a sound system! You don't HAVE to buy very expensive cables but at least make sure you get a good quality 2.5mm or maybe 3mm cable for your components. BUT, a main concern is not the mains cable itself but noise free elecktricity to your components, that's even more important. That depends on where you live, what is also connected on your circuit for hifi, etc. It's no science and no vodoo, it's common sense. I'm amazed some people still doubt this. It's not only the cable, it's a combination of things. But before you go changing mains cables, it is best to make sure everything before the mains cable is allright.
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
They are not if the freebi cable is thinner then the wires in the wall, which is. It does not however speaks for itself that a thicker and better quality cable will give you better sound in any setup, but it will put less stress on the amp so it can do it's work better and as a result in a lot of cases a longer lifetime. I also noticed that some mains cables do make a difference on the source while not on the amp and vice versa. I only had subtle results with all the mains cable i tested, mostly a more relaxed sound as a result of upgrading your system from freebi cables. There was one exception from the cables i tested that made a very big difference, it was a cable that is also a CONDITIONING cable! It works as some kind of a mild power conditioner. The WireWorld cables do that and there are propably cables out there that work with the same pricipal, i just don't know which other brands.
im confused
why would thin or thick cables cause the amp to be more or less stressed and have a longer lifetime
if thats true im getting some 5 inch diameter cables
I's not as simple as that. But where i live in Belgium we have a standard that electric wires in the walls should be 2.5mm diameter for mains and 1.5mm for switching on the lights. Freebi cables are often less then 1.5mm diameter!! Sure an amp wouldn't ask as much current then an electric stove but music is a complex thing. There's a lot happening before music comes through the speakers, there are more components in the amp and other devices asking for current, so you can make the amp work at it's best as a good start. It's the foundation of a sound system! You don't HAVE to buy very expensive cables but at least make sure you get a good quality 2.5mm or maybe 3mm cable for your components. BUT, a main concern is not the mains cable itself but noise free elecktricity to your components, that's even more important. That depends on where you live, what is also connected on your circuit for hifi, etc. It's no science and no vodoo, it's common sense. I'm amazed some people still doubt this. It's not only the cable, it's a combination of things. But before you go changing mains cables, it is best to make sure everything before the mains cable is allright.
Cable Lover:
Why do PMC use Van Damme cable? They clearly want to show their products at their best, so why use "cheap" cable? Clearly, it's because it's good enough. If they felt more expensive cable would sell their products better, surely they would use it?
i looked at some van damme cable today £12 a meter not exactly cheap
Why do PMC use Van Damme cable? They clearly want to show their products at their best, so why use "cheap" cable? Clearly, it's because it's good enough. If they felt more expensive cable would sell their products better, surely they would use it?
i looked at some van damme cable today £12 a meter not exactly cheap
Dave_
Well-known member
- Jul 31, 2008
- 1,238
- 648
- 20,070
nodnarb4444:Cable Lover:
Why do PMC use Van Damme cable? They clearly want to show their products at their best, so why use "cheap" cable? Clearly, it's because it's good enough. If they felt more expensive cable would sell their products better, surely they would use it?
i looked at some van damme cable today £12 a meter not exactly cheap
Van damme blue(studio grade) from £1.13 p/m
Van damme black(tour grade) from £1.56 p/m
Why do PMC use Van Damme cable? They clearly want to show their products at their best, so why use "cheap" cable? Clearly, it's because it's good enough. If they felt more expensive cable would sell their products better, surely they would use it?
i looked at some van damme cable today £12 a meter not exactly cheap
Van damme blue(studio grade) from £1.13 p/m
Van damme black(tour grade) from £1.56 p/m
aliEnRIK:
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
Thats your opinion.
Clearly youve not tried the better ones out there (or your VERY lucky and have a near perfect mains supply and no EMI floating around)
every ones posts on this matter are their opinion, and just as valid as anyone elses.
unless you can prove with measurements to the rest of the forum users that your cables make a difference, then you are just sharing your opinion. not facts.
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
Thats your opinion.
Clearly youve not tried the better ones out there (or your VERY lucky and have a near perfect mains supply and no EMI floating around)
every ones posts on this matter are their opinion, and just as valid as anyone elses.
unless you can prove with measurements to the rest of the forum users that your cables make a difference, then you are just sharing your opinion. not facts.
Craig M.:aliEnRIK:
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
Thats your opinion.
Clearly youve not tried the better ones out there (or your VERY lucky and have a near perfect mains supply and no EMI floating around)
every ones posts on this matter are their opinion, and just as valid as anyone elses.
unless you can prove with measurements to the rest of the forum users that your cables make a difference, then you are just sharing your opinion. not facts.
Yes, and my opinion is that a £300 offer is not enough to buy my Clearer Audio Silverline mains cables, that in itself should say something.
cse:Speaker cable probably, mains cable a waste of money.
Thats your opinion.
Clearly youve not tried the better ones out there (or your VERY lucky and have a near perfect mains supply and no EMI floating around)
every ones posts on this matter are their opinion, and just as valid as anyone elses.
unless you can prove with measurements to the rest of the forum users that your cables make a difference, then you are just sharing your opinion. not facts.
Yes, and my opinion is that a £300 offer is not enough to buy my Clearer Audio Silverline mains cables, that in itself should say something.
daveh75:nodnarb4444:Cable Lover:
Why do PMC use Van Damme cable? They clearly want to show their products at their best, so why use "cheap" cable? Clearly, it's because it's good enough. If they felt more expensive cable would sell their products better, surely they would use it?
i looked at some van damme cable today £12 a meter not exactly cheap
Van damme blue(studio grade) from £1.13 p/m
Van damme black(tour grade) from £1.56 p/m
fair play the only one i saw was some chunky stuff the guy said it was very good for the money
Why do PMC use Van Damme cable? They clearly want to show their products at their best, so why use "cheap" cable? Clearly, it's because it's good enough. If they felt more expensive cable would sell their products better, surely they would use it?
i looked at some van damme cable today £12 a meter not exactly cheap
Van damme blue(studio grade) from £1.13 p/m
Van damme black(tour grade) from £1.56 p/m
fair play the only one i saw was some chunky stuff the guy said it was very good for the money
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