Best Speakers

[Ajani]

Mate, I don't think the cult thing has anything to do with it, only some users are recommending the AVIs randomly without bothering to read what the posters want.

No conspiracy either - why would AVI want to have anything to do with something like that ? Sales are good, from what one reads, and that'd be the only possible reason.

Replying to jjbomber, by the way.

While I'm reluctant to use the word 'conspiracy', as I believe a number of the members pushing AVI are legitmately recommending the product (and many don't even understand where all the Anti-AVI sentiment comes from), I wouldn't rule it out completely.

The reason most of us on this forum know about AVI's ADM9 series and ADM40 is not from a series of great reviews from HIFI mags or even adverts in those mags, it's because of lots of controversial AVI threads on this forum in the past. Loads of over-the-top claims and frankly spamming of the forum with AVI related posts. Much like viral advertising. So AVI's business model is based on word of mouth, rather than ads or pro reviews, meaning they need their customers to spread the word and continue to do so if they are to maintain good sales levels.

 

[Craig M.]

Jeez, this thread is plumbing new depths even for this place! We've got a maniac conspirancy theorist, and someone else who doesn't want someone recommending their kit unless they compare it to his first! Unreal! As a non-AVI owner, is it ok if I continue to recommend them as I see fit, or do I have to let the wardrobe guy bring his behemoths over first? Because I'll warn him now, if he chips the paint bringing them in my missus will beat the **** out of him. I wonder where this idea that audiophiles are deranged loonys comes from!

 

[Ajani]

Jeez, this thread is plumbing new depths even for this place! We've got a maniac conspirancy theorist, and someone else who doesn't want someone recommending their kit unless they compare it to his first! Unreal! As a non-AVI owner, is it ok if I continue to recommend them as I see fit, or do I have to let the wardrobe guy bring his behemoths over first? Because I'll warn him now, if he chips the paint bringing them in my missus will beat the **** out of him. I wonder where this idea that audiophiles are deranged loonys comes from!

No, it really isn't. The problem is simply that many of the members now pushing AVI don't really know the history of AVI on this forum. You can laugh at the notion of a conspiracy, but I can't rule it out completely (even if it is unlikely), because of the number of users who were banned for spamming the forums with all kind of AVI threads in the past and subsequently created new usernames to spam some more. I have to laugh when I hear people asking for persons like Ashley from AVI to be allowed to return to this forum. Clearly, people either weren't around/active at the time when all that drama was going down, so they think that AVI is just a silent victim on this forum. The reason for the severe distrust and arguably paranoia is based on actual forum events.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Ajani, you have made too many reasoned and well informed posts :shame: maybe have a rest, sit down with a cup of tea :rofl:

😉

 

[Ajani]

Ajani, you have made too many reasoned and well informed posts :shame: maybe have a rest, sit down with a cup of tea :rofl:

😉

LOL .... Maybe I really need to just have something to drink and leave this thread to be what it will.

 

[atticus]

That little black speaker on top there would do much better on some proper stands. It would boom terribly sitting on top of that cabinet!

HaHa, don't worry, I doubt that you can hear anything from it
As Stereophile pointed out, big old Bozaks are not at their best unless the listener is more than 15 feet away :? JC

15 feet away?! You'd be better off in the neighbouring county!

 

[relocated]

So David, please give an example of this cost reduction, as seen by the purchaser.

For example, if a dealer sells a pair of speakers for the recommended price of £2000; what is the buy in price by the dealer?

I wonder if it might be @ half that £2000? That sounds like a real good deal for the man-in-the-street, much better than buying direct and cutting out the dealer and distributer.

Chebby raised a very good point in reply to your post. I do know of a distributor that decided to sell direct as well as supply his dealers - of course he had to keep the pricing up so as not to piss off the dealers, but then you have a distributor making two profit margins. Win win for the distributor, who continues to sell at his double profit margin.

And not all products need a distributor - sometimes it is cheaper for a manufacturer to sell their products through a distributor rather than to pay two or three reps to get out on the road and sell direct to the dealer.

And as for profit margins, 100% would be nice, but unfortunately we don't sell designer clothes, furniture or jewellery. Manufacturers can't afford to price their products too highly nowadays, as price can make or break a product.

David, you are completely wasted just selling stereo and av. With an answer like that you should be answering questions on behalf of the Labour Party about all their current policies.

Strange that some of us saw a certain dealers price list and some of their mark-up was better than 100% on certain products. Perhaps your suppliers don't give you such good discounts. You have a HDD account, I'm sure someone will give you the detail if you ask nicely.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

You know, I read the thread on the AVI forum about the future Aussie great speakers, and thought Ashley James came across as a real gentleman, which is more than seems to be the case here with a couple from that forum. Spying, veiled accusations of lying, whatever next!

You forget dealers have a mountain of expenses, whereas those selling directly on the net don't. Also, the manufacturers often set the prices, and you can only go under (theoretically) those prices a couple of times a year. I'm no big fan of retailers, but give them a break!

 

[relocated]

Just for the record I am a real person and I do no-ones bidding. I do not trawl through forums to post on them. I respond to threads that appear on the News page of WHF or very occasionally the first page of the 'Latest Posts' in the Forum section.

I recommend AVI product because I believe them to be stunning value for money as well as the best speakers I have heard any way near their price bracket. I'm talking the 9 series here, because I own 9Ts, as you can see from my signature, and I haven't heard the AVI ADM 40s yet.

The problem for you JJBomber is that you totally down-grade any reasoned comment by other people who for one reason or another don't rate AVI. They probably have very valid points [ if they have actually heard them] to make but you chip in with your ridiculous paranoia and conspiracy theories and ruin what otherwise could be a sensible debate. You are a complete gift because all your posts have such glaring mistakes or you quote completely out of context that it is childsplay to pull your ramblings apart. You really need to get a life, you are one of the reasons people give up contributing on here and go over to HDD for a reasoned discussion about hi-fi and other interesting things as well.

AVI baiting just doesn't work any more. It is counter productive and will certainly ensure that I stick my oar in and row like hell.

:cheer:

 

[alchemist 1]

So David, please give an example of this cost reduction, as seen by the purchaser.

For example, if a dealer sells a pair of speakers for the recommended price of £2000; what is the buy in price by the dealer?

I wonder if it might be @ half that £2000? That sounds like a real good deal for the man-in-the-street, much better than buying direct and cutting out the dealer and distributer.

Chebby raised a very good point in reply to your post. I do know of a distributor that decided to sell direct as well as supply his dealers - of course he had to keep the pricing up so as not to piss off the dealers, but then you have a distributor making two profit margins. Win win for the distributor, who continues to sell at his double profit margin.

And not all products need a distributor - sometimes it is cheaper for a manufacturer to sell their products through a distributor rather than to pay two or three reps to get out on the road and sell direct to the dealer.

And as for profit margins, 100% would be nice, but unfortunately we don't sell designer clothes, furniture or jewellery. Manufacturers can't afford to price their products too highly nowadays, as price can make or break a product.

If you stocked B&W's 800 speakers you could count that as jewellery.........😉

 

[drummerman]

You know, I read the thread on the AVI forum about the future Aussie great speakers, and thought Ashley James came across as a real gentleman ...

Agree

regards

 

[jjbomber]

They probably have very valid points

Someone is looking for speakers for £350 and a valid point is to recommend AVIs at £1,400. Very valid

Someone wants a CD Transport for £800. Recommended? AVIs for £1,400. Very valid indeed

Another wanted a DAC for £600. Recommended? buy AVIs for £1,400. Very valid.

Another wanted an amp for £500. Recommended? Yep, AVIs for £1,400. Wow, really valid that one.

The advice from the cult members is just a farce.

Buy AVIs at 31,400.

 

[Overdose]

There are some very insecure people on this forum.

 

[drummerman]

They probably have very valid points

Someone is looking for speakers for £350 and a valid point is to recommend AVIs at £1,400. Very valid

Someone wants a CD Transport for £800. Recommended? AVIs for £1,400. Very valid indeed

Another wanted a DAC for £600. Recommended? buy AVIs for £1,400. Very valid.

Another wanted an amp for £500. Recommended? Yep, AVIs for £1,400. Wow, really valid that one.

The advice from the cult members is just a farce.

Buy AVIs at 31,400.

The ADM's are a strange product in some ways. If someone contemplates a new speaker or other component with a possible upgrade of other stuff in the future it makes sense to recommend them.

They also frequently pop up used and can be had a few hundred pounds cheaper.

I can't personally see any reason not to include them in recommendations.

regards

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I ALWAYS recommend my MS 8's irrespective of room, taste or pocket since I declare my bias & personal choice within my signature. Some dont. It would be nice if frequent users declared their 'interests' and even better a link to a short bio would be good. I have never claimed any expertise in the field but I would rather take advice from a recognisably valid source. Just a thought I thought. 🙂

Am I likely to think my £2k speakers are no good? Ofcourse they are THE best

 

[Novaportian]

Well said Drummerman,

People should feel free to recommend any kit that they own or have at least heard. After all, I have made a demo short list of some of my kit based on folks opinions here and on other forums.

If some people claim that their kit is the best then I would personally just smile because it all comes down to personal taste. If any newbies looking at this thread are put off, then my advice is to demo as much as you can, be confident with your choice. You don't need to justify your purchase to anyone but yourself (or maybe the Mrs!)

I would respect anyone who posts on why they like their kit, rather than make claims to being the best. I'm actually going to demo my brother's ADM9s soon as a potential second system. I would join HDD to seek some opinions but I think if it became known I have a black box with Naim on I would be flamed!

Life is too short to get hung up on arguments, especially based around electrical goods. Me, I just want to listen to music and enjoy it :dance:

Cheers, Nick

 

[altruistic.lemon]

The ADM's are a strange product in some ways. If someone contemplates a new speaker or other component with a possible upgrade of other stuff in the future it makes sense to recommend them.

Don't follow mate. If someone already has an amp and a CD player, why recommend actives? If they have nothing fair enough, but even then there are a lot more active speakers than AVI, some better, some worse, just like any speaker. They don't do big bass, so it seems odd that they get recommended for people who want just that. Sure, you can add a sub, but you can do that for any speaker.

Besides, come April, it'll be the moose audios that everyone will want!

 

[Phileas]

They don't do big bass

No, they don't boom at all! 😉

 

[Novaportian]

Pardon my ignorance, but what are 'Moose Audios' ?

 

[drummerman]

Pardon my ignorance, but what are 'Moose Audios' ?

Its a soon to be released active mini monitor

regards

 

[Novaportian]

Thank you sir, just had a gander at their website. They look promising, not sure about the price once available in the uk!

 

[drummerman]

Thank you sir, just had a gander at their website. They look promising, not sure about the price once available in the uk!

It won't be cheap but it is a whole system so to speak, the drivers are top of line.

Look at it this way, a pair of, for example, PMC DB1i's cost over a thousand pounds on their own.

regards

 

[Frank Harvey]

David, you are completely wasted just selling stereo and av. With an answer like that you should be answering questions on behalf of the Labour Party about all their current policies.

Why, just because you think I'm lying? Just because you think it, doesn't make it so.

Strange that some of us saw a certain dealers price list and some of their mark-up was better than 100% on certain products. Perhaps your suppliers don't give you such good discounts. You have a HDD account, I'm sure someone will give you the detail if you ask nicely.

There are no products for a dealer that are 100%. Why are dealers closing down if they're making 100%? Hell, if it was all 100% margins I'd open up my own shop!

A distributor selling direct at retail prices might make 100% or get close to, but no retailers in the hi-fi/AV sector.

 

[richardw42]

Well as a Cult member.

Ive got no problem with the margins (alleged or actual). More expert types of shops such as hi Fi give real service (mostly) and may have a relatively slow turnover.

A supermarket just stacks its products and makes a killing, and if its not making enough it'll screw suppliers until it does. When the economy is totally screwed and we're all skint, we still have to buy food.

As a consumer, of course I'll have a whinge though.

 

[steve_1979]

Instead of the usual argy bargy whenever AVI get mentioned, how about constructive comments about what you think is the ideal speaker design and the speaker that’s closest to it? It might be more interesting?

....I'd also like to hear Genelec's 8260A (10", 5", 1" drivers and DSP for ~ £7000) to hear what well implemented DSP does to the sound.

I only had a ten minute play with them in a shop that had iffy acoustics and I was listening to music that I didn't recognise. The difference to the sound of the 8260a with the DSP switched on was a subtle improvement to the bass which seemed to get a bit tighter. The midrange, treble and stereo image didn't seem to be effected by the DSP though.

It also had two different DSP settings which worked well. One that was set with the microphone placed in one position that optimised the sound for a single seating position which ultimately gave the best sound quality providing you don't move. The other setting was setup with the microphone in three different positions which didn't sound quite as good as the first setting when sitting in the 'sweet spot' but it did sound better when I moved out of the sweet spot and walked around the room.

They were very impressive and the Genelec computer software seemed intuitive and easy to use for the basic commands. Apparently they'll automatically set themselves up with the optimum settings for the room but there's also loads of other more in depth options which allow you to tweek every aspect of the sound until hearts content too.