B&W 685 S2 vs ATC SCM11 (non curved) ?

[ErwinC]

At the moment i have a pair of B&W 685 S2 and i am very happy with the sound in combination with my Naim UnitiLite. :dance:

But now i am able to buy a pair of used ATC SCM11 (non curved version) for a good price and i am wondering if this would be an upgrade. I owned a pair of ATC SCM12 speakers which i liked a lot a long time ago but i have not heard an ATC speaker since many years.

Do you think the ATC SCM11 is a good combination with the Naim UnitiLite and does the Naim has enough power for the ATC?

 

[ErwinC]

Nobody? :?

 

[MUSICRAFT]

At the moment i have a pair of B&W 685 S2 and i am very happy with the sound in combination with my Naim UnitiLite. :dance:

But now i am able to buy a pair of used ATC SCM11 (non curved version) for a good price and i am wondering if this would be an upgrade. I owned a pair of ATC SCM12 speakers which i liked a lot a long time ago but i have not heard an ATC speaker since many years.

Do you think the ATC SCM11 is a good combination with the Naim UnitiLite and does the Naim has enough power for the ATC?

Hi ErwinC

Yes, the UnitiLite pairs well SCM11 MK1 monitors and as long as you're not after constant disco like listening levels then the UnitiLite has more than sufficient quality and quantity of power for SCM11 MK1 monitors. Fwiw, we recently had a client who has upgraded from 685's to curved SCM11 monitors using an RA-10 amplifier (which he'll also be moving on from). Anyway if the RA-10 didn't/hasn't shown a white flag then a UnitiLite with its greater quality and quantity of power will in comparison take SCM11 monitors in its stride.

SCM11 MK1 monitors are then better 685 S2's anyway so if you can get a pair of SCM11 MK1 monitors at a good price then what are you waiting for

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[lpv]

... with all respect Rick but as a ATC dealer your view may not be free of £££

I'm not B&W 'expert' but just recently on this forum Zensor's has been compared to corresponding B&W with little difference between the two.

I've got Zensor 3 as weel as SCM11 (curved). ATC's are all together in league above and could easily wipe out any £2000 bookshelfs... that's my choice after months of auditioning, an excellent pair of speakers ( old or curved)... great combo with Naim too.

 

[lpv]

edit: I went too far saying SCM11 beat any £2000 bookshelfs.. Dynaudio 160 or SCM19 are clearly better speakers.. but for what SCM11 are worth I can't think of better speakers.. maybe KEF R300? but that's irrelevant now..

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi lpv

If it was about £££ then perhaps i shouldn't be recommending/suggesting and bring to the attention of members and guests current, discontinued and secondhand products from manufacturers that we don't deal with.

As mentioned in my previous post our client who bought the curved SCM11 monitors (who had never been to our store before) only came in for alternative after market cables. As to your suggestion of £££ perhaps i should have kept my mouth shut and gone along with him and sold him some expensive after market cables. On my advice he instead bought basic/standard cables which cost him signficantly less then the after market cables which he was already using and even more so then what he was planning to spend on even more costly after market cables. Last i heard he was getting shot of his after market cables.

Btw, i say the above to you with all respect.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[lpv]

On my advice he instead bought basic/standard cables which cost him signficantly less then the after market cables which he was already using and even more so then what he was planning to spend on even more costly after market cables.

Old dealers trick - play honest about your cheapest products to get same person later for what you are really dealing with.

been there...

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi lpv

Doesn't surprise me that you've been there. Interesting to see that you ignored the first paragraph in my previous post.

Btw, good timing to include an image in your Avatar Mr Honesty.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Pedro2]

edit: I went too far saying SCM11 beat any £2000 bookshelfs.. Dynaudio 160 or SCM19 are clearly better speakers.. but for what SCM11 are worth I can't think of better speakers.. maybe KEF R300? but that's irrelevant now..

Heard the kef s few weeks back. Not a good demo shop wise. They sounded very good despite the poor demo....... but the ATCs just sounded brilliant!

 

[lpv]

Hi lpv

Doesn't surprise me that you've been there. Interesting to see that you ignored the first paragraph in my previous post.

Btw, good timing to include an image in your Avatar Mr Honesty.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Sorry ??!!

 

[lpv]

edit: I went too far saying SCM11 beat any £2000 bookshelfs.. Dynaudio 160 or SCM19 are clearly better speakers.. but for what SCM11 are worth I can't think of better speakers.. maybe KEF R300? but that's irrelevant now..

Heard the kef s few weeks back. Not a good demo shop wise. They sounded very good despite the poor demo....... but the ATCs just sounded brilliant!

Sad true about some dealers, their places can be utter mess etc but that's separate matter.

I also think SCM's are better positioning wise than most ported designs.. and bass is really nice.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi lpv

Sorry ??!!

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[ErwinC]

... with all respect Rick but as a ATC dealer your view may not be free of £££

I appreciate the feedback given by Rick and the other dealers on this forum. So no problem here.

I'm not B&W 'expert' but just recently on this forum Zensor's has been compared to corresponding B&W with little difference between the two.

I had the Dali Zensor 3 in my own setup and currently own the 685 S2 and imo the B&W 685 S2 is clearly better than the Dali in all areas. The original B&W 685 i did not like.

I've got Zensor 3 as weel as SCM11 (curved). ATC's are all together in league above and could easily wipe out any £2000 bookshelfs... that's my choice after months of auditioning, an excellent pair of speakers ( old or curved)... great combo with Naim too.

Either way, I am currently compairing the ATC SCM11 and B&W 685 S2 in my own setup. :dance:

What Naim amplification are you using with the SCM11 curved?

 

[NHL]

... with all respect Rick but as a ATC dealer your view may not be free of £££

I appreciate the feedback given by Rick and the other dealers on this forum. So no problem here.

I'm not B&W 'expert' but just recently on this forum Zensor's has been compared to corresponding B&W with little difference between the two.

I had the Dali Zensor 3 in my own setup and currently own the 685 S2 and imo the B&W 685 S2 is clearly better than the Dali in all areas. The original B&W 685 i did not like.

I've got Zensor 3 as weel as SCM11 (curved). ATC's are all together in league above and could easily wipe out any £2000 bookshelfs... that's my choice after months of auditioning, an excellent pair of speakers ( old or curved)... great combo with Naim too.

Either way, I am currently compairing the ATC SCM11 and B&W 685 S2 in my own setup. :dance:

What Naim amplification are you using with the SCM11 curved?

i used to own ProAc Response. I guess they are kind of similar to the ATC?

 

[ErwinC]

These are my first impressions after some initial listening of the ATC SCM11 and B&W 685 S2 in my own setup. The equipment used is a Naim UnitiLite.

What if first noticed is that the tonal accuracy of the ATC is spot-on imo. The sound is very smooth with a lot of detail and a well defined bass. Imaging depth is very good and the sound remains enjoyable even at lower levels.

The 685 S2 in comparison is more tight, sounds 'faster' and has better (left to right) imaging . The sound of the B&W is a little less clean than the ATC.

But my overall impression is that with the ATC speakers the setup seems to lose a lot of the PRAT of the Naim UnitiLite. I think the reason for this is that the ATC's bass is not as tight as the bass from the B&W. The bass from the ATC SCM11 speakers is well defined but is 'slow' and less controlled compared to that of the B&W. I have the impression that the Naim is a bit struggling to control the ATC speakers even though i did not play loud. (setting 30 on the Naim).

So my conclusion for the moment is that I have the impression that ATC and Naim are not the best match.

 

[NHL]

So my conclusion for the moment is that I have the impression that ATC and Naim are not the best match.

Well, an substantial amount of money could be saved!

 

[hoopsontoast]

These are my first impressions after some initial listening of the ATC SCM11 and B&W 685 S2 in my own setup. The equipment used is a Naim UnitiLite.

What if first noticed is that the tonal accuracy of the ATC is spot-on imo. The sound is very smooth with a lot of detail and a well defined bass. Imaging depth is very good and the sound remains enjoyable even at lower levels.

The 685 S2 in comparison is more tight, sounds 'faster' and has better (left to right) imaging . The sound of the B&W is a little less clean than the ATC.

But my overall impression is that with the ATC speakers the setup seems to lose a lot of the PRAT of the Naim UnitiLite. I think the reason for this is that the ATC's bass is not as tight as the bass from the B&W. The bass from the ATC SCM11 speakers is well defined but is 'slow' and less controlled compared to that of the B&W. I have the impression that the Naim is a bit struggling to control the ATC speakers even though i did not play loud. (setting 30 on the Naim).

So my conclusion for the moment is that I have the impression that ATC and Naim are not the best match.

I think you would find better performance from a much better amplifier than the Naim All-In-One. I have heard the older SCM7/11/19 models on the end of Naim and even the 5i and XS dont do them justice.

ATCs smaller speakers tend to have very tight bass due to their over damped drivers and sealed cabinets so if you are getting loose or slow bass its either down to the amp not being up to it (IMO Entry Naim amps are not relly suitable) or room placement issues.

I have only heard the older 685 model and they are not for me, boomy 'look at me' bass and some odd treble issues. Maybe the revised model is better.

I would wager, as you have found that the B&W would be the better match with the UnitiLite.

 

[ErwinC]

I think you would find better performance from a much better amplifier than the Naim All-In-One. I have heard the older SCM7/11/19 models on the end of Naim and even the 5i and XS dont do them justice.

I also think the ATC SCM11 speakers need an amp with more power/control. I probably would have to add at least a NAP-200 to the UnitiLite to be able to control the SCM11 in a decent way.

ATCs smaller speakers tend to have very tight bass due to their over damped drivers and sealed cabinets so if you are getting loose or slow bass its either down to the amp not being up to it (IMO Entry Naim amps are not relly suitable) or room placement issues.

I don't think there are room placement issues as the B&W 685 S2 (and many other speakers) don't have this problem at the same location.

I have only heard the older 685 model and they are not for me, boomy 'look at me' bass and some odd treble issues. Maybe the revised model is better.

I would wager, as you have found that the B&W would be the better match with the UnitiLite.

I also do not like the older B&W 685 model but i find the 685 S2 a lot better (and very different sounding).

And the 685 S2 is indeed imo a better match with the UnitiLite. The B&W CM5 and Dali Ikon 2 mk2 are also a very good match.

 

[ErwinC]

Just found this (http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/atc-with-naim-amplifier) interesting thread confirming my findings.

Especially the last sentence of this quote about the Nait 5i-2 /XS in combination with the SCM11 is identical with my short experience: " It will be comfortable but the Nait is unlikely to control the ATCs with a lot of grip. See if you like it. The ATCs are one of the most neutral speakers I have heard, so if you like air moving bass and energy, the amp needs to provide it rather than the speaker cabinet resonance.I am listening to XS right now on demo with my 19s. Good and smooth, lyrical and polished but not fast and visceral ."

 

[hoopsontoast]

It is not outright power you need for ATCs (IMO/IME) its the quality of the amp.

With my SCM10s I have used a range of amps, and recently the Brio-R and Bryston B60. While simmilar in specifications the B60 has so much more control and punch (up to a point). I was supprised how well the Brio-R did but the B60 is in another league. I wont go super loud, for that you do need raw power, especially with the 80dB SCM10s although that wont get you much louder in real terms.

When I had the SCM7s a few years back, I found the Audiolab 8200A a good match, with the 8200A(Pre)/8200MB combo only really making a real difference at high volumes.

I also heard the SCM7 and SCM19 with the BP26/4BSST combo and that was pretty epic, but again, only really noticable differences at high volumes, and mostly higher than I would ever listen in a more normal domestic enviroment.

So in my experience, unless you really listen at high volumes, its the quality of the amp over the power that will sound best with the ATCs.

Personally, I dont get on with Naim amps, not for me.

 

[lpv]

... best example that your ears can only deicide. I've got my Electro (as a temporary solution) paired with 11's and they sound wonderfull together. Did hear briefly Naim separates with bigger SCM's and sound was good but nowhere near ATC own ( and cheaper) amplification.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi ErwinC

We've got clients who are happily using amplification such as NAP90, UntitQute MK1, Uniti MK1, Nait 3, Arcam Solo Mini, etc. with ATC monitors such as SCM11 MK1, SCM19 MK1 and SCM40 MK1's. Yes, they aware that even higher quality of reproduction can be had from their ATC monitors by using better quality of amplification.

Anyway, if you prefer the flavoured/character sound of the 685 S2's over the flat and honest presentation of the SCM11 MK1 monitors then stick to the 685 S2's.

If you still want try other alternatives then and if within budget the Focal JM Lab Aria 906 speakers are also worth have a listen to.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[ErwinC]

Anyway, if you prefer the flavoured/character sound of the 685 S2's over the flat and honest presentation of the SCM11 MK1 monitors then stick to the 685 S2's.

Hi Rick,

I am pretty sure that the ATC SCM11 is the better speaker of the two but imo it is not really compatible with my Naim.

I don't prefer the character of the 685 S2 over the SCM11 MK1, but with the SCM11 i lose a lot of the PRAT of the Naim imo. And PRAT is why i bought the Naim. For some songs, i really like the SCM11 but for other songs, i find them slow sounding.

Either way, thanks for your advice. Are there other good solutions for the Naim UnitiLite, even at higher budgets?

 

[csq2]

Have you listened to SCM7? The smaller woofer is faster sounding.

 

[ErwinC]

Have you listened to SCM7? The smaller woofer is faster sounding.

Not yet, but it is difficult to find these in Belgium as there is no ATC distributor.