B&W 685 S2 vs ATC SCM11 (non curved) ?

[plastic penguin]

Have you listened to SCM7? The smaller woofer is faster sounding.

Not yet, but it is difficult to find these in Belgium as there is no ATC distributor.

Clue: PMC 'i' series.

If you can find a dealer with ex-dem or s/hand DB1i or TB2s, they are a match made in heaven with Naim. As is Neat - so I've read - but I've not heard the combo.

Or if you can source a pair on an auction site, you can always sell on if they don't appeal.

*EDIT* - In fact if the PMCs don't appeal to your taste then feel free to call me "Edith".

 

[ErwinC]

*EDIT* - In fact if the PMCs don't appeal to your taste then feel free to call me "Edith".

I listened to a pair of PMC twenty.23 in combination with a few integrated Naim amplifiers and found the sound really, really good. The sound was open and detailed with very good pace, rhythm and timing. :dance: So perhaps the twenty.21 an 22 are a good combination with my UnitiLite.

In the meantime, i listened to the SCM11 some more. The tonality is really good and detail level is great, but timing and pace is not good. Especially the bass sounds really 'slow'. :?

In fact, the above quote about ATC and Naim integrateds describes perfectly my experience with Naim and ATC : "Good and smooth, lyrical and polished but not fast and visceral"

 

[plastic penguin]

*EDIT* - In fact if the PMCs don't appeal to your taste then feel free to call me "Edith".

I listened to a pair of PMC twenty.23 in combination with a few integrated Naim amplifiers and found the sound really, really good. The sound was open and detailed with very good pace, rhythm and timing. :dance: So perhaps the twenty.21 an 22 are a good combination with my UnitiLite.

In the meantime, i listened to the SCM11 some more. The tonality is really good and detail level is great, but timing and pace is not good. Especially the bass sounds really 'slow'. :?

In fact, the above quote about ATC and Naim integrateds describes perfectly my experience with Naim and ATC : "Good and smooth, lyrical and polished but not fast and visceral"

By hook or by crook, search out some DB1is.... they'll be revelation with the Unitilite or any Naim gear.

As you alluded earlier, it isn't about the 'best' speaker but one that gels excellently with your current gear. That's PMC DB1i and Naim.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi ErwinC

Your welcome.

I would say that pretty much whatever the recordings are up to the ATC's will try and reproduce them as accurately as possible. Even with higher quality of amplification although you'll get better reproduction however the chances are you might find the differences between the recordings to remain.

ATC design and manufacture monitors. The sound of accuracy.

Here is some info about them - http://atcforums.co.uk/pdf/ATC%20CORP%20BROCHURE.pdf

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[shep1968]

Anyway, if you prefer the flavoured/character sound of the 685 S2's over the flat and honest presentation of the SCM11 MK1 monitors then stick to the 685 S2's.

Hi Rick,

I am pretty sure that the ATC SCM11 is the better speaker of the two but imo it is not really compatible with my Naim.

I don't prefer the character of the 685 S2 over the SCM11 MK1, but with the SCM11 i lose a lot of the PRAT of the Naim imo. And PRAT is why i bought the Naim. For some songs, i really like the SCM11 but for other songs, i find them slow sounding.

Either way, thanks for your advice. Are there other good solutions for the Naim UnitiLite, even at higher budgets?

i have the Kudos X2 with my naim kit. Preferred them to the neat motive SX. Love the sound of them and well thought of on the naim forum

 

[ErwinC]

By hook or by crook, search out some DB1is.... they'll be revelation with the Unitilite or any Naim gear.

As you alluded earlier, it isn't about the 'best' speaker but one that gels excellently with your current gear. That's PMC DB1i and Naim.

I will try to find a pair of PMC DB1i although that will not be easy where i live

 

[ErwinC]

Hi ErwinC

Your welcome.

I would say that pretty much whatever the recordings are up to the ATC's will try and reproduce them as accurately as possible. Even with higher quality of amplification although you'll get better reproduction however the chances are you might find the differences between the recordings to remain.

ATC design and manufacture monitors. The sound of accuracy.

Here is some info about them - http://atcforums.co.uk/pdf/ATC%20CORP%20BROCHURE.pdf

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Rick,

What is according to you a good amplifier match in the price range to max £1500 with the SCM11 (curved and non curved)?

 

[ellisdj]

The atc being sealed box designs will require more power to equal that of a ported design in terms of bass - simple law physics

However it wont suffer the problems ports cause and should give tighter more controlled bass - in theory.

I would expect much less.extension or control to the.extension without good quality and.substantial power.

 

[ErwinC]

However it wont suffer the problems ports cause and should give tighter more controlled bass - in theory.

In fact, the bass from the 685 S2 is more controlled and tighter than that of the SCM11. This has probably something to do with the Naim UnitiLite not being able to fully control the SCM11.

 

[plastic penguin]

However it wont suffer the problems ports cause and should give tighter more controlled bass - in theory.

In fact, the bass from the 685 S2 is more controlled and tighter than that of the SCM11. This has probably something to do with the Naim UnitiLite not being able to fully control the SCM11.

Is there anything you don't like about the B&Ws?

 

[ErwinC]

However it wont suffer the problems ports cause and should give tighter more controlled bass - in theory.

In fact, the bass from the 685 S2 is more controlled and tighter than that of the SCM11. This has probably something to do with the Naim UnitiLite not being able to fully control the SCM11.

Is there anything you don't like about the B&Ws?

I like the sound of the 685 S2, but i was looking to upgrade since i thought that the UnitiLite deserves better.

The ATC SCM11 has more detail and is more smooth sounding. I like that more than the drier sound of the 685 S2.

Either way, the next candidates to test will be the B&W CM5, Dali Ikon 2 mk2 and PMC twenty.21 or DB1i.

 

[plastic penguin]

However it wont suffer the problems ports cause and should give tighter more controlled bass - in theory.

In fact, the bass from the 685 S2 is more controlled and tighter than that of the SCM11. This has probably something to do with the Naim UnitiLite not being able to fully control the SCM11.

Is there anything you don't like about the B&Ws?

I like the sound of the 685 S2, but i was looking to upgrade since i thought that the UnitiLite deserves better.

The ATC SCM11 has more detail and is more smooth sounding. I like that more than the drier sound of the 685 S2.

Either way, the next candidates to test will be the B&W CM5, Dali Ikon 2 mk2 and PMC twenty.21 or DB1i.

IME of Naim integrated amps, they are, to my ears, speaker sensitive. Hook up a Rotel amp or Arcam the 685s should sound less dry. Likewise, Naim sounds wonderful with PMCs, but by the same token, hook them up to hard domed tweeters and it can throw the soundstage off kilter.

 

[ellisdj]

The internals on the unitilite look decent - amazing to squeeze what they do into what they do.

Maybe the ATC requires proper power amp type power/ control - or maybe not as good in the bass?

 

[ErwinC]

IME of Naim integrated amps, they are, to my ears, speaker sensitive.

Agreed, that is indeed what i found out in the meantime.

But i also discovered that Naim amplifiers are very speaker cable sensitive. In the beginning i used my Kimber 4TC with the Naim and found the sound of my setup very inconsistent. I was not happy with the sound . The Kimber 4TC is a very good speaker cable imo that i used before (about 10 years) with many different amplifiiers/speakers with very good results.

When i went to a Naim demonstration day a few weeks ago, the Naim distributor told me that Naim amplifiers do not work well with Kimber speaker cables although he did not know i used Kimber 4TC.

I asked him for a decent speaker cable (not too expensive) that works well with Naim and he told me to use Chord Carnival SilverScreen. So i ordered a 3.5 meter pair. After i installed the Chord in my setup, i was really surprised with the resulting sound. Everything sounded so much better. :O I never heard such a big difference in speaker cables.

 

[ErwinC]

The internals on the unitilite look decent - amazing to squeeze what they do into what they do.

Maybe the ATC requires proper power amp type power/ control - or maybe not as good in the bass?

I don't know, but i have the impression that the lower range Naim amplifiers don't have the tightest bass.

 

[nopiano]

Hi ErwinC

I have also heard the small PMC series sound great with Naim Unitilite, but they are quite pricey. Just as good in my view were Guru junior, which I heard in early 2013 with the same system. Very room friendly, but if you are in Belgium I am unsure if you have local dealers.

Your own reports of what you heard suggest you can trust your ears without needing much advice! Good luck.

 

[ErwinC]

Hi ErwinC

I have also heard the small PMC series sound great with Naim Unitilite, but they are quite pricey. Just as good in my view were Guru junior, which I heard in early 2013 with the same system. Very room friendly, but if you are in Belgium I am unsure if you have local dealers.

Your own reports of what you heard suggest you can trust your ears without needing much advice! Good luck.

The dealer where i bought my UnitiLite also sells Guru speakers. The problem is i don't want speakers anymore without a protective grille and as far as i know Guru speakers don't have a grille.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi ErwinC

I am sorry for my late reply as your post slipped my mind

Try and listen to a NAP 155 XS and a NAP 200 with the UnitiLite.

As I mentioned previously for alternative speakers the Focal JM Lab Aria are also worth a listen to as the Aria Series of speakers was partly developed with Naim electronics.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[lpv]

However it wont suffer the problems ports cause and should give tighter more controlled bass - in theory.

In fact, the bass from the 685 S2 is more controlled and tighter than that of the SCM11. This has probably something to do with the Naim UnitiLite not being able to fully control the SCM11.

Is there anything you don't like about the B&Ws?

I like the sound of the 685 S2, but i was looking to upgrade since i thought that the UnitiLite deserves better.

The ATC SCM11 has more detail and is more smooth sounding. I like that more than the drier sound of the 685 S2.

Either way, the next candidates to test will be the B&W CM5, Dali Ikon 2 mk2 and PMC twenty.21 or DB1i.

IME of Naim integrated amps, they are, to my ears, speaker sensitive. Hook up a Rotel amp or Arcam the 685s should sound less dry. Likewise, Naim sounds wonderful with PMCs, but by the same token, hook them up to hard domed tweeters and it can throw the soundstage off kilter.

I have too disagree about PMC/ Naim being wonderfull.. have heard £13500 PMC speakers with 20k+ Naim boxes and on low volumes sound was dull and thin and on higher volumes shouty and uncontrolled... some PMC speakers sounds really good with Electro amps and I would describe this combination as closer to wonderfull.

From your shortlist I would scrap B&W's, I would keep Dali's and add AE as they were "predominantly designed on Naim amps " as well as Neat.. Neat's were on my shortlist together with SuperUniti before I've deicided on SCM 11's.

 

[ErwinC]

From your shortlist I would scrap B&W's, I would keep Dali's and add AE as they were "predominantly designed on Naim amps " as well as Neat.. Neat's were on my shortlist together with SuperUniti before I've deicided on SCM 11's.

Thanks for the info. What AE speakers would you advise?

 

[ErwinC]

Hi ErwinC

I am sorry for my late reply as your post slipped my mind

Try and listen to a NAP 155 XS and a NAP 200 with the UnitiLite.

As I mentioned previously for alternative speakers the Focal JM Lab Aria are also worth a listen to as the Aria Series of speakers was partly developed with Naim electronics.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Thanks for the feedback. I will try to find a pair of Focal JM Lab Aria speakers tot test with my Naim.

I will also try to add a Naim power amp.

 

[ErwinC]

Yesterday i was reading a review of the Naim Nait 5si amplifier in the German audio magazine "Stereo". I noticed that, according to the magazine's measurements, the damping factor of the Naim Nait 5si is really low: 15 at 4 Ohm.

If the UnitiLite has a similar damping factor, than this is possibly the reason of the 'slow' bass and the less agile sound compare to my B&W 685 S2.

 

[lpv]

From your shortlist I would scrap B&W's, I would keep Dali's and add AE as they were "predominantly designed on Naim amps " as well as Neat.. Neat's were on my shortlist together with SuperUniti before I've deicided on SCM 11's.

Thanks for the info. What AE speakers would you advise?

As the synergy between amp and speakers is paramount for your amp I would try some 301's.

 

[ErwinC]

Yesterday i was reading a review of the Naim Nait 5si amplifier in the German audio magazine "Stereo". I noticed that, according to the magazine's measurements, the damping factor of the Naim Nait 5si is really low: 15 at 4 Ohm.

If the UnitiLite has a similar damping factor, than this is possibly the reason of the 'slow' bass and the less agile sound compare to my B&W 685 S2.

Just found out from the Stereophile review of the Supernait that the damping factor of the Supernait is also very low: 13 at 4 Ohm (output impedance 0.3 ohm). That means the Supernait should also have problems controlling the bass of certain speakers.

 

[chrisup]

ErwinC

I have the B&W 685 Theatre and use the Chord Carnival SilverScreen cable with my Onkyo 905 receiver. Which I love and I tried the B&W 685 with my Arcam Hifi and they were brilliant. I would love to hear how good the 685 Ss are compared to my original 685s. I hope you have fun auditioning your replacement speakers. I still have my Rega Planar 3, Nytech CTA252 and Mordaunt Short Pageant 2s and this provides me immense pleasure despite being 30 years old and thats value for money!!

Best wishes

Chris