B&W or Monitor Audio

[Stone6000]

Maybe I should just try and pair the B&Ws with another amp at first. The Arcam A32?
I know the 603 S2 should be good acording to reviews and I like them too, but just not at louder volumes.
Maybe I also need to look at the cables in my system.

 

[DougK1]

Maybe I also need to look at the cables in my system.

As long as your current cables are of sufficient gauge and well terminated you'd be wasting your money. Just my opinion.

 

[Rui]

603 s2 sound challenged when playing loud? thats not my experience at all with them.

BUT they do require really good amplification to control them , NADc370 for example from the same time frame would have been the been the bare minimum.

Marantz PM7200 was a good match and as were most Yamaha amps back then I havent tried any modern gear with them so can comment.

IMO, MA will be a side step or possibly a down grade from that time. I dont remember the reviews being good.

MIssion from the time were amazing, 783's were amazing and still are amazing just make sure the ones you look at have the driver recall done and replaced. These would be very much a step up from you have.

if you cant stretch to them, mission 703's big and bold and play loud with ease. or the newer m74 and m74i
mission and B&W in the budget -midrange had it all tied up at that time, nothing really challenged them for price to performance.

i´m not sure now but i have the mission argonaut MKII 200watts at 4ohms that were the 780 model, and other are the Mission 761 at 4ohms that are not big but release a very good sound with any amplifier ,recentelly i discovered that this model was developed by Philips in Belgium, there are many variations from the 761 but all with a not so good sound at 8ohms , but i didn´t refer to the B&W 603 S2 which sound good with the right amplifier , a friend of mine as the so badly talked about ,when released Pioneer A-676 (91) , i have a later model and totally diferent inside for the better A-717MKII that was ofered by a friend from the nethrlands that came to live near my hometown, it sure is good as a integrated amplifier, i had at the time bought a Sony ES TA-F570ES ,that surprised me for it´s clean and very good phono stage for the time being, but only sold in the U.K and Portugal with the same specifications in all other european countries they are far from mine, but i sold it after 5 years of using it ,i had better , i think Mission as very good speakers but i heard some who are not that good

i wrotte this because i thought the before coment was an answer to my coment about speakers , i´ve read it wrong on the new posts Bell

 

[Rui]

Maybe I should just try and pair the B&Ws with another amp at first. The Arcam A32?
I know the 603 S2 should be good acording to reviews and I like them too, but just not at louder volumes.
Maybe I also need to look at the cables in my system.

the arcam 22 for these speakers is not the best ,this if played loud sound very good , the amplifier might not be the best for this model.

Also were tried out with a Hegel pre and power amplifier ,who made them sound horrible,

I also have a bit of bad experience with arcam alpha integrated amplifiers ,A&R cambridge it says in the right top corner

i have an older cambridge audio that is very good sounding with this particular model that i´ve tried them

we took them to my place and they sound really well with the cambridge audio integrated amplifier, a older model ,maybe late 90´s or early 2000´s not sure ,i have it stored

 

[plastic penguin]

I read that the A39 was not quite as superb. The test was on WhatHiFi "Arcam’s A39 is a powerful, authoritative stereo amplifier, but it needs to pay a little more attention to timing and subtle detail to be the full package"

Home review

Arcam’s A39 is a powerful, authoritative stereo amplifier, but it needs to pay a little more attention to timing and subtle detail to be the full package

www.whathifi.com

In real world listening, the A39 is hard to beat at used prices.

Not being funny, if you're drawn so much to reviews, what are you doing here?

Bear in mind WHF reviews are carried out in rooms that cost them a million pounds (or thereabouts.)

I've visited WHF building (or the Towers as I used to call them) and they are stunning sonically but do not represent real world listening. No background or white noise that you get in normal houses or flats or bungalows.

 

[Rui]

In real world listening, the A39 is hard to beat at used prices.

Not being funny, if you're drawn so much to reviews, what are you doing here?

Bear in mind WHF reviews are carried out in rooms that cost them a million pounds (or thereabouts.)

I've visited WHF building (or the Towers as I used to call them) and they are stunning sonically but do not represent real world listening. No background or white noise that you get in normal houses or flats or bungalows.

i think you couldn´t be more right ,that´s why some friends of mine have more recent(2000´s) systems but without listening they see what , what hi-fi says it´s best than the sound coming from any source it´s like... not good, one bought cambridge audio speakers with a arcam alpha simple integrated amplifier using a cd player that even i can´t recall the brand but it was very good when described, i can´t remenber what example i could give to express how it sounded to me,
when a teenager i had a receiver from Pioneer and some Philips speakers, i still have them but being all from second half of the 60´s, it sounded far better , so it seems the forward we advance in time the worst nice looking components are , i have listening rooms at home(2) but can´t imagine how can they make a arcam Delta 60 sound good, not an Alpha but maybe it´s me, an Alpha also sounded so bad no matter what speakers i throw at it ,maybe the mission 761 from the 80´s at 4ohms, not saying that will change it but ...maybe, i do not have access to all speakers models.
As said in the coment before there are several arcam alphas for sale very cheap, they might not made happy it´s previous owners.

 

[Stone6000]

Hmm, now I'm confused hehe
I never thought it would be easy to find new equipment, I tried to imporove my system over the last 20 years. But one says Arcam amps are a bad combo with my B&W, another says Cambridge are good, a third says Cambridge are bad with B&W... I mean, how am I supposed to filter that. I know its every ones own oppinion and thats perfectly fine. Maybe thats why I looked at reviews at first. To have a foundation to work from. If WHF have the same test conditions all the time, then it would be easy to hear the difference between two amps. If you want to compare things, you need the same conditions. Not random background noise or other interfering things. And assuming they're not in the pocket of any manufacturors, I hoped they'd give a clear review of a product as professionals.
I have no problem keeping my B&Ws, they have a nice sound. I have tried MA RX-series before and Dali and others, but always returned them because he B&Ws were more clear or open sounding. But just not at higher volumes. I just wanna add a good amp to them.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hmm, now I'm confused hehe
I never thought it would be easy to find new equipment, I tried to imporove my system over the last 20 years. But one says Arcam amps are a bad combo with my B&W, another says Cambridge are good, a third says Cambridge are bad with B&W... I mean, how am I supposed to filter that. I know its every ones own oppinion and thats perfectly fine. Maybe thats why I looked at reviews at first. To have a foundation to work from. If WHF have the same test conditions all the time, then it would be easy to hear differences from one amp to another. And assuming they're not in the pocket of any manufacturors, I hoped they'd give a clear review of a product as professionals.
I have no problem keeping my B&Ws, they have a nice sound. I have tried MA RX-series before and Dali and others, but always returned them because he B&Ws were more clear or open sounding. But just not at higher volumes. I just wanna add a good amp to them.

Yes because everyone hears something different.

There are combos that work well: Arcam + MA, Creek + MA, Rotel + B&W. Could put more up but I don't want to confuse you any further.

Go Richer Sounds and listen to a few combos.

 

[Stone6000]

Rotel and B&W? Okay.
What do you personally think of Arcam (A32/A39) + B&W? Or Cambridge Audio + B&W? Or NAD + B&W?

 

[Fandango Andy]

Hmm, now I'm confused hehe
I never thought it would be easy to find new equipment, I tried to imporove my system over the last 20 years. But one says Arcam amps are a bad combo with my B&W, another says Cambridge are good, a third says Cambridge are bad with B&W... I mean, how am I supposed to filter that. I know its every ones own oppinion and thats perfectly fine. Maybe thats why I looked at reviews at first. To have a foundation to work from. If WHF have the same test conditions all the time, then it would be easy to hear differences from one amp to another. If you want to compare things, you need the same conditions. Not random background noise or other interfering things. And assuming they're not in the pocket of any manufacturors, I hoped they'd give a clear review of a product as professionals.
I have no problem keeping my B&Ws, they have a nice sound. I have tried MA RX-series before and Dali and others, but always returned them because he B&Ws were more clear or open sounding. But just not at higher volumes. I just wanna add a good amp to them.

You can listen to all the opinions in the world, but but they don't have your ears (or sonic preferences) and won't have heard what they are recommending in your room. People often forget how much of an Impact the room has on sound, and that preferences are always personal.

To paraphrase my original advice, all you can do is audition the equipment. I seem to remember you suggesting you were looking at some second hand speakers. You may not be able to borrow them to audition the way you can from a shop, but if you buy in good condition at a fair price, you can always sell them on at a similar price.

Finally, don't forget positioning. I swapped the speakers between my main system and the system in my bedroom a few years ago. One pair of speakers are very forgiving and sound OK wherever you plonk them, the others need plenty of space around them and the right toe-in to sound anything like their best. You may be experiencing something similar with either your current or replacement speakers, or you may having limitations on position so will have to choose forgiving or versatile speakers??? Or do you need to consider some room treatment?

Opinions and advice can only go so far, there is no substitute for experiencing a d experimentation!

 

[Fandango Andy]

Yes because everyone hears something different.

There are combos that work well: Arcam + MA, Creek + MA, Rotel + B&W. Could put more up but I don't want to confuse you any further.

Go Richer Sounds and listen to a few combos.

Good advice. He could listen to all the options in the world, none are a substitute for actually listening to music.

 

[Stone6000]

I fully understand what you mean. I have tried many things through the years. Moving the biwiring cables from bass to mid/treble on my speakers, even crossed them so plus is going to bass and minus to mid/treble. Also switching biwiring brackets for cables. Changing spikes to comcrete tiles. Tilting them. Moving them away from walls etc etc. But I've come to the comclusion that more needs to be done. New equipment.
But I can't just start from A and try it all out. So that's where you guys come in To give a direction or experience.

I haven't thought of Rotel for 20 years. I can get an Rotel A14 amp for 525 pound. Or a set of Rotel RSP-1066/RB-1572 for 450 pound. I think I plan to keep my B&Ws and go with a new amp to see where it brings me.
The question is, should i t be Rotel, Arcam or ...

Rotel A14 for 525,- https://www.whathifi.com/rotel/a14/review
Arcam FMJ A39 for 490,-
Arcam FMJ A32 for 575,-

Can't afford the Rotel Michi amps.

 

[plastic penguin]

I fully understand what you mean. I have tried many things through the years. Moving the biwiring cables from bass to mid/treble on my speakers, even crossed them so plus is going to bass and minus to mid/treble. Also switching biwiring brackets for cables. Changing spikes to comcrete tiles. Tilting them. Moving them away from walls etc etc. But I've come to the comclusion that more needs to be done. New equipment.
But I can't just start from A and try it all out. So that's where you guys come in To give a direction or experience.

I haven't thought of Rotel for 20 years. I can get an Rotel A14 amp for 525 pound. Or a set of Rotel RSP-1066/RB-1572 for 450 pound. I think I plan to keep my B&Ws and go with a new amp to see where it brings me.
The question is, should i t be Rotel, Arcam or ...

Rotel A14 for 525,- https://www.whathifi.com/rotel/a14/review
Arcam FMJ A39 for 490,-
Arcam FMJ A32 for 575,-

Can't afford the Rotel Michi amps.

Not many people can afford the Michi.

Rotel A14 is a good amp but you could look at 10 series or 15 series.

Start demoing Arcam at Richer Sounds with something like MA Silver floorstanders and Dali Oberon 5. Make it clear to them you are starting afresh after so many decades away from 2 channel. If it tugs your rug, ask for a home demo of a entry-level Arcam.

We can all talk about possible brands until the cows come home, but nothing beats listening for yourself.

 

[Fandango Andy]

I fully understand what you mean. I have tried many things through the years. Moving the biwiring cables from bass to mid/treble on my speakers, even crossed them so plus is going to bass and minus to mid/treble. Also switching biwiring brackets for cables. Changing spikes to comcrete tiles. Tilting them. Moving them away from walls etc etc. But I've come to the comclusion that more needs to be done. New equipment.
But I can't just start from A and try it all out. So that's where you guys come in To give a direction or experience.

I haven't thought of Rotel for 20 years. I can get an Rotel A14 amp for 525 pound. Or a set of Rotel RSP-1066/RB-1572 for 450 pound. I think I plan to keep my B&Ws and go with a new amp to see where it brings me.
The question is, should i t be Rotel, Arcam or ...

Rotel A14 for 525,- https://www.whathifi.com/rotel/a14/review
Arcam FMJ A39 for 490,-
Arcam FMJ A32 for 575,-

Can't afford the Rotel Michi amps.

Sounds like you have explored setup and positioning. Looking back, you started the process looking at updating your speakers. Now you are leaning toward a change of amp. You already have a powerful amp, and seem to be looking at others along the same lines. Have you looked at anything with a bit more poise, control and detail? something like a Naim Nait 5si or Rega Elex-R or even an old Audiolab 8000A from the 90s. No idea what the first two are selling for these days but know someone who picked up an immaculate 8000A recently for just over £200.

 

[nads]

Have B&W speakers. Not a fan of MA.

not heard either of the ones you mention. But have others.

 

[Stone6000]

Have B&W speakers. Not a fan of MA.

not heard either of the ones you mention. But have others.

Which B&W speakers do you have? And what amp do you pair them with?

 

[Rui]

Rotel and B&W? Okay.
What do you personally think of Arcam (A32/A39) + B&W? Or Cambridge Audio + B&W? Or NAD + B&W?

the problem here is the amplifier not having good tone controls or loudness for hearing music at low levels ,one buys a cheap 80´s or 90´s pioneer or even better a cheap receiver or amplifier from the 70´s and this B&W will sing perfect ,

if tone controls are there is to be used and correct the sound ,this not having a perfect listening room, i tried it already some years ago and i was admired how the Pioneer cheapest receiver from 79 and a integrated amplifier from 74 gave to this B&W speakers what they couldn´t release with a arcam alpha, arcam delta ,cambridge audio that were said to be good .

People can listen to direct sound it´s perfect but i do it with a early 60´s tube amplifier from Dynaco or sony pre and power amplifier from Sony ES with speakers from the same catalog in 81 or 82 ,normally with a turntable with a good cd player the sound is not that good,

the dynaco i have two speakers that i don´t know the brand that seem more like two closets with huge woofers behind a old but nice looking grill with wood work incredible well done and i think they are only 80 watts and the dynaco is also 70 watts but it sounds loud and perfect ,

this using a old thorens from second half of the 60´s with a shure cartridge(a old one),


this new with a nice design amplifiers are not that good but one trick if one doesn´t understand the specifications of the speakers is seeing it´s sensivity ,normally 89DB are good but if above 90 DB´s will work if the amplifier is aceptable in sound quality,

check also the frequency response that shows the spectrum of frequencies displayed by the amplifier or speakers, normally it is said that we can only hear from 20hz to 20khz, lows and high´s values at both sides of the sound spectrum ,knowing this is looking for this frequencies in a amplifier or speakers ,the far the low frequencies are from the high frequencies the better will sound

 

[nads]

Which B&W speakers do you have? And what amp do you pair them with?

All the info is in my signature.

 

[Stone6000]

All the info is in my signature.

Can't see the signature on phone

 

[plastic penguin]

Can't see the signature on phone

703 paired with NAD.

 

[Rui]

703 paired with NAD.

I noticed the personal components before the coments, i tried to do it myself but or i´m not that good in site organisation or i´ve missed something

and i have a degree in informatic engeniering ,also agriculture degree and worked in detecting plagues ,deseases and how to prevent them efectivelly,

to reduce the use of quimicals by not using in the wrong day or week , a laboratory i worked in , as a civil servant,

where i have devices i can see the stylus like if it had 2 meters high that i use on my turntables ,

recentelly i bought a P10 but already had much better but having a more modern system wanted a more recent turntable design that also sounded good,

even bought a bluesound node II, this told by a younger friend that he said to buy this one

 

[TrevC]

The mentioned ma speakers can have extreme peaks in the highs

Monitor Audio Silver RS6 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

View attachment 6121

Monitor Audio Silver 500 7G loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements I measured the Monitor Audio Silver 500 7G's farfield behavior with DRA Labs' MLSSA system, an Earthworks microphone preamplifier, and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone. I used an Earthworks QTC-40 mike, with its small ¼"-diameter capsule, to measure the nearfield...

www.stereophile.com

View attachment 6122

Those graphs look pretty good. No audible peaks.

 

[Rui]

Those graphs look pretty good. No audible peaks.

in reality i never noticed the excess of high frequencies but enough sensitivety to fire them up and listen a more detailed sound , not saying there arent good B&W speakers just prefer the monitor audio being more compatible with several amplifiers i own ,even from the 70´s or early 60´s vales or tube amplifiers from dynaco, this particular model from B&W were bought by some friends of mine and they sounded also very good , but i found it strange because if the high´s are still higher than usual even putting the treble knob to the left end of the scale seems more of a problem related with the amplifier than the speakers, i inn early 90´s bought a ES sereies power and pre and even in direct they ,monitor audio spekaers were playing perfect the sound but only from a 74 pioneer turntable that is not like that years catalog but bigger and better built with original cartridge the PC-30 ,before they used to be sold with a PC-11 in 72 ,mine was a late 74 and the at the time available sony turntables were worst sounding than the 74 pioneer also with it´s original cartridge, and both brand speakers sounded good but better in detail the monitor audio ,and i may say that i never heard before no one critising, the monitor audio speakers ,the B&W were even cheaper with a higher quality, i ´ve seen them today for sale above the price asked when new in late 80´s, the first set i bought was because the specifications were very good and price wise they were cheaper than tannoy´s, KEF´s and Celestion before joining this brands and sent it´s production to China who made them very strange compared to older models, the "concerto" model was available in the two brands, now wharfedale did the same let´s see if the brand still releases good speakers, the Linton are very good , i´ve seen comparisons to other brands made basically on their frequency response, and giving better quality to spekers with more mid frquency´s who are the easier to be listened, both ends of the spectrum are much more dificult to achieve in that wharfedale are better than the equivalent klipsch but the best to me are the KLH model 5 in this release of new old models

 

[manicm]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread. But those who suggest you replace your excellent amp is throwing the baby out with the bathwater imho.

My advice would be to save up a bit and get a later Monitor Audio Silver series floorstander. The Silver Series were generally not a bright speaker really.

There are also many other speakers that would go well with your amp. But if your budget can stretch get a more recent speaker, if not necessarily a new one. There are many choices out there. Keep your amp.

 

[Rui]

All the info is in my signature.

those are very good sounding and i heard them with a 91 A-676 pioneer reference integrated amplifier ,critisised a lot for having decreased the building quality of the previous equivalent models but in sound is much better than a arcam alpha cheap amplifier but by far