Are separates on borrowed time?

[steve_1979]

In many respects my Sony MP3 player and Westone earphones are on par sound quality wise with £10K+ worth of ATC active floorstanders IMO.

Maybe I should rephrase this comment.

Apart from lacking a proper stereo image and not being able to 'feel' the bass my portable MP3 player and IEM's sound just as good as ATC's top of the range active speakers.

I've heard top of the range open backed 'on-ear' headphones that sound even better too.

 

[moon]

I now also feel so pitiful and worthless because I only have a rubbish pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's . I wonder when I will be able to afford a proper grown up pair....... hmm .

 

[matthewpiano]

Nothing to be ashamed of moon. The Diamond 9.1s are excellent speakers and I've heard much more expensive speakers that don't sound as good.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'll refrain from using "yawn", as it's already been used today.

(regarding the ATC comment, just for clarity, as there's been a few posts since)

 

[naughty573]

Er, you're getting this slightly wrong. You're taking the physical size against the capability of the headphone design, the source and the recording quality

no sir - the concept of hi fidelity is that it should sound as close to the original as it can and this would include scale and size (it has to because thats why high end hi-fi exists). The absolute best hi-fi system i have heard actually sounded so holographic that you FELT as if you could stand up and walk amongst the performers and possibly shake hands with all of them and it was a combination of equipment and room size as well as room treatment in the dedicated room that made all the difference

Headphones does not get you to anywhere close to this effect and granted if you listen to wharfedale 9.1's then possibly you have never experienced what im talking about but saying that headphones beats any system you have heard is a gross exaggeration. The owner of that system that i listened to also owns a pair of sennheiser HD800's which are respectable headphones i would assume as well as having those connected to a headphone amplifier and we played back the same recordings with the same source as we used for listening to the speakers and separates combination and the effect was nowhere as near convincing or even close to having the same amount of fidelity

so im sure it all depends on your experience of hi-fi equipment and im happy for you if your headphones sound good on the train but to say it beats all hi-fi's out there is ridiculous and IMHO that is the actual trolling because im not the one who is trolling

i have also noticed a trend that whenever the same poster encounters anyone with an opinion different to his then those posters are accused of trolling ... why do i sense a pattern from him AND one more thing even though i dont post much it doesnt mean im a newbie on the forum (hint look at my join date) and it also does not mean that im a newbie to hi-fidelity equipment

 

[moon]

I'll refrain from using "yawn", as it's already been used today.

That wasnt to do with subject matter.

 

[the record spot]

yep - you really need to hear high fidelity music on a moving train :roll:

Er, why not? I mean you've just made a big deal about high fidelity so why shouldn't I? Greater storage space on digital music players permits higher quality files to be held (WAV, etc), so what's your problem? Meh.

and you also need to wear your headphones and listen to music while walking in the street - if i had a quid for everytime i missed to knock over some idiot wearing headphones and walking across an intersection without looking at traffic lights cos he was busy listening to his headphones with an ipod or phone i would be able to probably afford those 800 diamonds i mentioned above

Yeah, and if I'd had to wait to make sure some halfwit behind the wheel jumped the lights, ran on amber, crossed over on red when it's MY right of way on the road, I'd be ******* loaded as well. Cuts both ways.

 

[steve_1979]

Same with my iPod Touch and Sennheiser CX300-IIs, which I've just bought another pair of. Fantastic sound quality.

I used to have some Sennheiser CX300-IIs IEM's too. They do have fantastic sound quality for the price.

Have you ever tried any dual or triple driver balanced armature IEM's? They're even better sounding than dynamic driver IEM's.

 

[John Duncan]

I now also feel so pitiful and worthless because I only have a rubbish pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's . I wonder when I will be able to afford a proper grown up pair....... hmm .

I like Diamond 9.1s. Sometimes I swap them for my PMCs just for fun.

 

[steve_1979]

.

 

[Ryan92]

Okay, present the argument to a normal non-audiophile person. Give them a set of reference headphones and system at a similar price. Someone who isnt aware soundstage should even exist probably doesn't care at all, they just want nice sounding music. In some ways I think listening to really high end stuff can ruin your actual music experience ie. 5 years ago I was perfectlt happy listening to ipod headphones (how foolish I was). Now borrowing a friends headphones on the bus I'm appauled by them. This gave me the reputation as "sound snob" at work. Despite my system being pretty modest by this forums standards.

What I'm trying to get at is, all this soundstage rubbish (which I agree exists) only comes into play when you factor it as a requirement for good sound. For me at least, I'd take better sound over a vague idea of where it's apparently coming from any day.

 

[the record spot]

Er, you're getting this slightly wrong. You're taking the physical size against the capability of the headphone design, the source and the recording quality

no sir - the concept of hi fidelity is that it should sound as close to the original as it can and this would include scale and size (it has to because thats why high end hi-fi exists). The absolute best hi-fi system i have heard actually sounded so holographic that you FELT as if you could stand up and walk amongst the performers and possibly shake hands with all of them and it was a combination of equipment and room size as well as room treatment in the dedicated room that made all the difference

Headphones does not get you to anywhere close to this effect and granted if you listen to wharfedale 9.1's then possibly you have never experienced what im talking about but saying that headphones beats any system you have heard is a gross exaggeration. The owner of that system that i listened to also owns a pair of sennheiser HD800's which are respectable headphones i would assume as well as having those connected to a headphone amplifier and we played back the same recordings with the same source as we used for listening to the speakers and separates combination and the effect was nowhere as near convincing or even close to having the same amount of fidelity

so im sure it all depends on your experience of hi-fi equipment and im happy for you if your headphones sound good on the train but to say it beats all hi-fi's out there is ridiculous and IMHO that is the actual trolling because im not the one who is trolling

i have also noticed a trend that whenever the same poster encounters anyone with an opinion different to his then those posters are accused of trolling ... why do i sense a pattern from him AND one more thing even though i dont post much it doesnt mean im a newbie on the forum (hint look at my join date) and it also does not mean that im a newbie to hi-fidelity equipment

I think, first of all, if you want to quote me, then quote me accurately. Never accused you of trolling, so try to get your posting facts as well as your other ones straight too eh?

Your posting your opinion, I'm not trying to change your mind, though I believe you are wrong.

I've heard a good range of stereo gear over the last 30 years or so and the only system that ever gave me the sense of a live setting was the live setting. Everything else has been a facsimile; that goes for humble systems and high end alike and we're talking systems up to £50k -worth (dcs Scarlatti system, Wilson speakers and whatever amp it was).

No, you don't get the bass thump or the physicality of live performance, but you do get, with a good headphone setup, accuracy and realistic presentation. My take? Yes, excellent reproduction is more than possible, that you don't get that isn't a shortcoming of the hardware, just your willing ness to see beyond a shortsighted standpoint.

 

[steve_1979]

No, you don't get the bass thump or the physicality of live performance, but you do get, with a good headphone setup, accuracy and realistic presentation.

+1

 

[the record spot]

Same with my iPod Touch and Sennheiser CX300-IIs, which I've just bought another pair of. Fantastic sound quality.

I used to have some Sennheiser CX300-IIs IEM's too. They do have fantastic sound quality for the price.

Have you ever tried any dual or triple driver balanced armature IEM's? They're even better sounding than dynamic driver IEM's.

Not yet Steve, the CX300s do the job nicely and for the right money. Amazingly good for the price. Planning to run mine in overnight, should be ready to go by morning.

 

[Anonymous]

Headphones can sound great, but even when i had no hifi for a while recently, i never used them at home, only walking and in the gym, not sure why but it just didn't feel right using them at home.

 

[moon]

Headphones can sound great, but even when i had no hifi for a while recently, i never used them at home, only walking and in the gym, not sure why but it just didn't feel right using them at home.

look what you started .... Max.........

still rocking out?

 

[Anonymous]

Headphones can sound great, but even when i had no hifi for a while recently, i never used them at home, only walking and in the gym, not sure why but it just didn't feel right using them at home.

look what you started .... Max.........

still rocking out?

Was earlier but it's getting late

Loving the ADMs though, i got a great price on them as they were Ash's demo pair. A pair of Soundstyle Z1s are due in the morning to replace the two stacks of bricks they're currently sitting on 8)

 

[naughty573]

just your willing ness to see beyond a shortsighted standpoint.

shortsighted? .... really :wall: .... look if you dont get it let me draw another analogy for you

i use a 27" PC monitor then i have a 32" LCD TV mounted on the bedroom wall and then i use a 50" TV in the main lounge where my hi-fi setup is so should i listen to you when you tell me that the best thing you ever saw on a screen was when you ripped a blu-ray to FLV form and saved it onto an SD card to watch it on a 3" screen on your iphone

if that makes you happy be my guest but dont expect everyone to think like you

in fact i just popped in to the local supermarket to buy some stuff and i just saw something that sums it all up about headphone usage for me - theres the guy stopped at the traffic light next to me playing his music loudly and dancing to it in his car system while his mate sat next to him in the passenger seat was wearing his headphones looking thoroughly miffed cos the car system was probably louder than the music he was trying to listen to with his headphones .... it will be an image that probably lives with me till i die as representing the sense (more like lack of) that i personally make out of headphone usage

so yeah each to his own - you can stick to your headphones and be happy .... no skin off my back

 

[the record spot]

Thanks, I am, but of course my main system is listed in my signature. Prior to that the speakers were Mission 752s. The common theme running through them all, headphones included, is the ability to deliver a realistic portrayal of the musical piece I'm listening to. None of the options I use (or have done) lets me down. Simple really; but you can't see beyond your bias and prejudices and the reality is that you're in the minority.

Pop over to the Steve Hoffman forum and see how long you last on there.

 

[the record spot]

shortsighted? .... really :wall: .... look if you dont get it let me draw another analogy for you

i use a 27" PC monitor then i have a 32" LCD TV mounted on the bedroom wall and then i use a 50" TV in the main lounge where my hi-fi setup is so should i listen to you when you tell me that the best thing you ever saw on a screen was when you ripped a blu-ray to FLV form and saved it onto an SD card to watch it on a 3" screen on your iphone

What on earth are you talking about? Who's talking about screens? Why do you think I would think as you appear to? The above is an incorrect reach that you're making, though the iPod Touch I use does have a very good screen and picture performance, I know what I'll watch in my living room. My 32" Sony...why would I be any different.

if that makes you happy be my guest but dont expect everyone to think like you

For TVs? I don't, that was your rant and your (incorrect) reach. Strange boy.

in fact i just popped in to the local supermarket to buy some stuff and i just saw something that sums it all up about headphone usage for me - theres the guy stopped at the traffic light next to me playing his music loudly and dancing to it in his car system while his mate sat next to him in the passenger seat was wearing his headphones looking thoroughly miffed cos the car system was probably louder than the music he was trying to listen to with his headphones .... it will be an image that probably lives with me till i die as representing the sense (more like lack of) that i personally make out of headphone usage

so yeah each to his own - you can stick to your headphones and be happy .... no skin off my back

Umm, this has to do with me what? Two guys sitting in a car - strikes me that all you're doing is taking a bunch of your own prejudices and bringing them out on here. Life's too short and I can't be bothered with the nonsense.

 

[moon]

Headphones can sound great, but even when i had no hifi for a while recently, i never used them at home, only walking and in the gym, not sure why but it just didn't feel right using them at home.

look what you started .... Max.........

still rocking out?

Was earlier but it's getting late

Loving the ADMs though, i got a great price on them as they were Ash's demo pair. A pair of Soundstyle Z1s are due in the morning to replace the two stacks of bricks they're currently sitting on 8)

keep the bricks.......... they're Rock :dance:

 

[steve_1979]

Lookin' good Max. 8)

Once you've swapped the bricks for speaker stands all that's left to do is replace the wooden TV stand for a 10" subwoofer...

 

[naughty573]

What on earth are you talking about? Who's talking about screens? Why do you think I would think as you appear to? The above is an incorrect reach that you're making

i'm curious - did you miss the word analogy or do you simply not understand what it means

Strange boy.

oh the irony cos thats how i see you, only i would word it more strongly

 

[lee37]

i would like to say no,

but unfortunatly most of the sheep out there follow the herd and havent a clue what quality is.

the young folk these days seem to think that mp3 is quality and are happy with music played from a crappy pc cd player on bell wire cable or on a ipod played through a ipod music system costing £50 which im sure i got better sound from my 1980 ghettoblaster tape deck

 

[DIB]

There are days when driving around that I think that my standard Hyundai car stereo sounds better than anything I've ever had in my front room.

Not particularly happy this morning, the left channel on my amp has decided to pack in, so not sure how much that's going to cost to put right

.