An evening with Touraj Moghaddam (Vertere)

[CnoEvil]

It is not everyone who can inspire me enough to drag my sorry @r$e out of an evening, but Touraj Moghaddam is cetainly one of those people.

My work that day seemed to drag on more than usual, but finally the clock ticked past 5.30 and I was out the door, like an eager school kid who has been given a backstage pass to their favorite band.

I arrived 15 mins early and being only the 2nd person through the door, was able to corner "Mr Roksan" himself for a chinwag. It was truly fascinating to get a glimpse into the mind of the person who had been responsible for such groundbreaking products as the Xerxes de-coupled TT, and the Artemiz Tonearm with its inteligent counter-weight.

Since TM was never a follower of convention, it was going to be intriguing to see how his innovative thinking had been applied to his range of cables.

Before he started, I had a chance to have a poke round the two systems being used......

 

[CnoEvil]

THE EXPENSIVE SYSTEM (£18,500).*

Source: Electro EMC 1 (£3890) with Spider clamp ( £228 ) / PC + Bel Canto Dac 1.5 (£1199)

Pre-amp : Electro EC 4.8 (£2750)

Power amps: Electro 180 monos ((£5700 - pair)

Speakers: Spendor ST (£6000)

Titan Power Cables: Helios (£159) on Monos; Electra (£350) on Pre; Eos (£550) on CDP

THE BUDGET SYSTEM. (£650)*

Source: Sansui CDD 201v (£200) / PC and BC Dac

Int. Amp: Sansui 201v (£300)

Speakers: Tannoy Mercury V1 (£150)

TCI Power Cables: Baby Constrictor (£100)

* Price for basic system without Power Cables and BC Dac.

Anyway, after a little refreshment, the evening began.............

 

[CnoEvil]

With everyone fed and watered, Touraj began by setting the scene, giving a potted history of his career, taking us along the journey that had led him to this point.

Vertere, he was at pains to point out, is not a Cable Co as such, but more of a "think tank" that spends its time looking for the weak link is in the "hifi chain"....he is currently working on a Tonearm.

While setting up expensive systems in different peoples' houses, he found that the same kit sounded very different - and in a way that couldn't be accounted for by room acoustics.

This led him to the conclusion that the differences being heard, were down to the cables used...and in some cases, were doing the system very little favours, by not letting them achieve their full potential.

So strongly did he believe in the importance of cables, that he decided to bring his methodical, but unique approach into focusing on cables rather than hardware.

His first cables were hand made around 6 years ago and were only for his own system. When friends heard the effect, they wanted to "join the party". The results were startling enough for word to get out and demand to grow, and as they say, the rest is history.

So what is different?....or is it just "smoke and mirrors" from yet another cable company claiming to have re-invented the wheel?

Well I'm not technical, but I'll try and give the gist of it. He explained that different metals have different properties, which suited different frequencies. He also noticed that different thicknesses with different amounts of twist had different effects. This accounts for the completely unique structure of his cables.

He went on to point out, that on a speaker, the Red and Black terminals do very different jobs and so the cable into each, should also be different. Black is DC-Ground, and the Red is the AC signal...so his cables are designed to maximize each job, leaving the +ve and -ve wires looking completely different (photos will hopefully follow in a following post).

His knowledge and passion were undiminished by time, and flowed forth like the waves on a Maui beach....and I, like a very average surfer, momentarily went with the flow, before being unceremoniously dumped in the ocean....so if there are gaps in my explanation, it's because I was out of my depth.

Now this is all well and good, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating...and so the budget system was fired up......

 

[BenLaw]

How did he reach the conclusion that the differences he heard could not be accounted for by room acoustics?

 

[CnoEvil]

How did he reach the conclusion that the differences he heard could not be accounted for by room acoustics?

Good question.

I suppose his background as a mechanical engineer, and a lifetime designing some exceptional hifi, should qualify him to make a reasonable assessment.

I also think he experimented in the same room, but it's possible I'm mistaken as he went over a lot of stuff during the evening.

He also claims that all doubt disappeared when he designed his most unusual cable. Now I can almost feel your cynicism from here, but I'm only doing my best to relay what he said......and will report on what I heard in due coarse (hopefully with photos).

 

[Craig M.]

Now I can almost feel your cynicism from here

Just wait til you feel mine!

 

[Alantiggger]

... His first cables were hand made around 6 years ago and were only for his own system. When friends heard the effect, they wanted to "join the party". The results were startling enough for word to get out and demand to grow, and as they say, the rest is history. So what is different?....or is it just "smoke and mirrors" from yet another cable company claiming to have re-invented the wheel? Well I'm not technical, but I'll try and give the gist of it. He explained that different metals have different properties, which suited different frequencies. He also noticed that different thicknesses with different amounts of twist had different effects.......

For real ?

 

[steve_1979]

Just wait til you feel mine!

 

[fr0g]

How did he reach the conclusion that the differences he heard could not be accounted for by room acoustics?

Good question.

I suppose his background as a mechanical engineer

Which he then forgot all about and joined the Moonies. by the sound of it.

 

[CnoEvil]

How did he reach the conclusion that the differences he heard could not be accounted for by room acoustics?

Good question.

I suppose his background as a mechanical engineer

Which he then forgot all about and joined the Moonies. by the sound of it.

....hardly, given his track record (he only left Roksan around 3 years ago):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roksan_Audio

 

[CnoEvil]

... His first cables were hand made around 6 years ago and were only for his own system. When friends heard the effect, they wanted to "join the party". The results were startling enough for word to get out and demand to grow, and as they say, the rest is history. So what is different?....or is it just "smoke and mirrors" from yet another cable company claiming to have re-invented the wheel? Well I'm not technical, but I'll try and give the gist of it. He explained that different metals have different properties, which suited different frequencies. He also noticed that different thicknesses with different amounts of twist had different effects.......

For real ?

It's certainly my understanding about what he said; and WHF touched on it in their review here:
http://www.whathifi.com/review/pulse-x

 

[CnoEvil]

Now I can almost feel your cynicism from here

Just wait til you feel mine!

The phone lines aren't open yet, as I haven't posted about what I heard....so keep your real stuff for that! :hand:

 

[fr0g]

How did he reach the conclusion that the differences he heard could not be accounted for by room acoustics?

Good question.

I suppose his background as a mechanical engineer

Which he then forgot all about and joined the Moonies. by the sound of it.

....hardly, given his track record (he only left Roksan around 3 years ago): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roksan_Audio

I'm sure David Icke would still be pretty good at sports reporting too.

 

[steve_1979]

How did he reach the conclusion that the differences he heard could not be accounted for by room acoustics?

Good question.

I suppose his background as a mechanical engineer

Which he then forgot all about and joined the Moonies. by the sound of it.

I expect that he knows exactly how silly his products are from an engineering point of view. I also expect he's happy to pocket the easy money that's earned by selling fancy looking mains cables for £550 a pop.

Out of interest Cno. Are there any scientific tests and results to back up his claims?

 

[steve_1979]

He explained that different metals have different properties, which suited different frequencies. He also noticed that different thicknesses with different amounts of twist had different effects. This accounts for the completely unique structure of his cables. He went on to point out, that on a speaker, the Red and Black terminals do very different jobs and so the cable into each, should also be different. Black is DC-Ground, and the Red is the AC signal...so his cables are designed to maximize each job, leaving the +ve and -ve wires looking completely different (photos will hopefully follow in a following post). His knowledge and passion were undiminished by time, and flowed forth like the waves on a Maui beach....and I, like a very average surfer, momentarily went with the flow, before being unceremoniously dumped in the ocean....so if there are gaps in my explanation, it's because I was out of my depth.

I'm sorry to say this Cno.

But the phrase "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bull" springs to mind.

 

[BenLaw]

How did he reach the conclusion that the differences he heard could not be accounted for by room acoustics?

Good question.

I suppose his background as a mechanical engineer

Which he then forgot all about and joined the Moonies. by the sound of it.

I expect that he knows exactly how silly his products are from an engineering point of view. I also expect he's happy to pocket the easy money that's earned by selling fancy looking mains cables for £550 a pop.

One of the more depressing conclusions that could be drawn from this tale is that one of the most talented hifi engineers around has realised that there is more money to be made in bulls--- cabling than there is by doing proper engineering work.

 

[CnoEvil]

One of the more depressing conclusions that could be drawn from this tale is that one of the most talented hifi engineers around has realised that there is more money to be made in bulls--- cabling than there is by doing proper engineering work.

This tale isn't finished yet, as I haven't talked about the sound....and that, after all, is all that matters.

IMO It is exceedingly unlikely that someone who has designed some of the most repected products in British hifi would tarnish his well earned reputation on snake oil.

 

[steve_1979]

IMO It is exceedingly unlikely that someone who has designed some of the most repected products in British hifi would tarnish his well earned reputation on snake oil.

Some people are willing to do anything for money.

A credible engineer using his reputation to make a quick buck selling audiophile cables isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[BenLaw]

One of the more depressing conclusions that could be drawn from this tale is that one of the most talented hifi engineers around has realised that there is more money to be made in bulls--- cabling than there is by doing proper engineering work.

This tale isn't finished yet, as I haven't talked about the sound....and that, after all, is all that matters.

I've already got a tenner on which way that's heading, but I got very short odds.

IMO It is exceedingly unlikely that someone who has designed some of the most repected products in British hifi would tarnish his well earned reputation on snake oil.

Thing is, he won't tarnish his reputation while reasonable, intelligent, experienced and big-spending individuals such as yourself continue to laud the results.

 

[chebby]

C'mon Cno, this is like waiting for the other boot to fall.

[EDITED BY MODS – simply stirring]

What did you hear?

 

[CnoEvil]

Thing is, he won't tarnish his reputation while reasonable, intelligent, experienced and big-spending individuals such as yourself continue to laud the results.

You credit me with more power than I actually have.

 

[BenLaw]

Thing is, he won't tarnish his reputation while reasonable, intelligent, experienced and big-spending individuals such as yourself continue to laud the results.

You credit me with more power than I actually have.

On your own, of course, but as a group that's exactly how it works.

 

[bigboss]

How did he reach the conclusion that the differences he heard could not be accounted for by room acoustics?

Good question.

I suppose his background as a mechanical engineer

Which he then forgot all about and joined the Moonies. by the sound of it.

I expect that he knows exactly how silly his products are from an engineering point of view. I also expect he's happy to pocket the easy money that's earned by selling fancy looking mains cables for £550 a pop.

One of the more depressing conclusions that could be drawn from this tale is that one of the most talented hifi engineers around has realised that there is more money to be made in bulls--- cabling than there is by doing proper engineering work.

I was going to say something similar, but in a milder manner.

 

[bigboss]

That gives me an idea! I should develop a diet regimen / anti-wrinkle cream / lose-weight-without-exercise machine, use some sophisticated medical words (to impress people), endorse them as a doctor, & market them! :bounce:

 

[CnoEvil]

C'mon Cno, this is like waiting for the other boot to fall.

What did you hear?

I'm at a wedding today and will try to finish off my "tall tale", complete with pictures, over the next day or two....not that anything I say will be given any credibility, given that I'm a gullible plutocrat! :doh:

You can be sure that I will try to get the man himself to defend his position...but that may be a bit if a long shot.

It would be good if anyone else who was at one of the two evenings would see this, and be brave enough to give comment.