An evening with Arcam, Kef and Audioquest

CnoEvil

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Half day booked off work, myself and Mrs Cno headed to Belfast early to get parked, have a meal and dander about, as the big football match between NI and Greece was being held down the road from Lyric and crowds were expected.

Fed watered and comfortable, we strolled into Lyric at the allotted time. There were about 14 people, which included Michael and Ross (Lyric), Jonathan (Kef), Mick (Arcam), as well as Rob and Nick (Audioquest).

Mrs. Cno being the only lady there decided to make a beeline for the wine, while I went into the room with the Arcam Solo Movie playing through Kef T Series speakers. It was very pleasant and immersive with no headache inducing treble...then after the last straggler arrived, having been held up by the match traffic, the evening began.

First on the podium was Jonathan from Kef, who was amusing, knowledgeable and very affable. He took us through his products and how they came about. The speakers being demonstrated were LS50, Ref 1 and Ref 3, though at this stage, the only thing we heard was their very new portable Bluetooth speaker called Muo. It was small, had no wires and held a 12 hour charge, cost £300.....and sounded better than it had any right to, given its size. If you want stereo, you need 2 of them. As a small, portable, wireless speaker, it's the best I've come across...and was Mrs. Cno's favourite item out of the whole evening.

It was at this point that the evening took a few unexpected turns, in the way that only hifi can. Following on from Kef, Rob from Audioquest stepped up. For those of you old enough to remember the Nyteck amp...it was the brainchild of his father....anyway, despite having a lot of expensive cables attached to the back of the various bits of kit, he demoed ETHERNET CABLES!! Now, as I can already sense the hackles of every sane person on this forum rise at the insanity of this, I'm not going to go into what I heard...but will reluctantly do so, if there is a general appetite for such madness. My credibility is bad enough already.

Passing swiftly on, it was Arcam's turn. Mick demoed the 3 amps he had there. Well, strictly it was 4, but the left channel of the P49 had been blown the previous day, due to some over enthusiastic "setup enjoyment".

The source for all demos was their CD/Streamer, which is around £900.

The 3 working amps were the A29/39/49 and played through LS50/Ref1/Ref3. This again is where things were unexpected. The basic system (A29/LS50) sounded clean and musical, with surprising scale and impact for its size. As the systems got more expensive, they sounded very "Hifi" and initially impressive, but there was a hardness to the treble that that got worse with each "improvement". I have heard the A49/Ref 3s sounding wonderful, but that was with an Akurate DS. I strongly suspect that the Arcam Streamer was increasingly out of its depth as the systems got more revealing. It's a great example of how you can get very different impressions of the same amp/speakers/room....last time I heard them I eulogised on here about how good they were and on Thursday night I could see the potential, but was ultimately left cold.

Their new AVR 850 was not available in time for them to bring over, which was a pity.

At 10.30pm, the evening disbanded and we fought our way out of Belfast through the mass of happy NI supporters who were revelling, having qualified .

I would like to give a big thank you to the good folk from Arcam, Kef and Audioquest, who gave up their time and made the evening interesting and informative....and all done in a spirit of friendliness and humour. I would also like to mention Lyric Hifi for hosting the event and thank them for the hospitality.
 

jjbomber

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CnoEvil said:
Fed watered and comfortable, we strolled into Lyric at the allotted time. There were about 14 people, which included Michael and Ross (Lyric), Jonathan (Kef), Mick (Arcam), as well as Rob and Nick (Audioquest).

Just wondering how you got a ticket? Was it invitation only for Lyric customers? A competition win? With just 8 guests there, it would have been easier to get a ticket to the soccer!!!
 

Native_bon

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Hey Cno, seems you had a good time there. One thing I know for sure, you are very particular about bright & brittle sounding Hifi. I am of the opinion that 90% of hifi sounds brittle, harsh & with presence of sibilance. I suppose at this point in time, prices & specifications are not to hand. I happen to listen to the Akurate DS at Oranges & lemons Hifi shop in London & was very impressed. I would go as far as saying one of the best source players I have heard till date.

Interesting on your findings about the the limitations of the Arcam streamer in a revealing system. If any updates am more than Interested to hear them. *yes3*
 

iceman16

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Hi Cno..I was also surprised when I first listened to the A29/LS50 combo. I wasn't expecting a big scale and "grip" from the A29 despite its modest 80w/pc output. It's so musical and detailed even at low volume which I really liked.
 

CnoEvil

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jjbomber said:
CnoEvil said:
Fed watered and comfortable, we strolled into Lyric at the allotted time. There were about 14 people, which included Michael and Ross (Lyric), Jonathan (Kef), Mick (Arcam), as well as Rob and Nick (Audioquest).

Just wondering how you got a ticket? Was it invitation only for Lyric customers? A competition win? With just 8 guests there, it would have been easier to get a ticket to the soccer!!!

I have known the owner (Michael) for over 30 years and was invited by email.

There are a very small, but hardy group of old farts that go to these events...and with the football on, maybe less than might have been there.

On a recount, there might have been 12, including us and the stragglers who came in late.
 

CnoEvil

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Mrs. Cno would like it to be known, that half way through the evening she was tempted to escape through the toilet window, but decided she wouldn't fit. She has now decided to lose weight, in order for this to be an option for the future.
 

Infiniteloop

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Hi Cno, your findings on the Ref's treble echo mine from a few weeks back. If you remember, I heard the Ref 1's with a SME TT through my Devialet 200 and thought they sounded a little dry. This was confirmed when they were swapped out for my present in-system Focals, which were much more liquid and natural (less HiFi, I guess!) than the Ref 1's. I was expecting to be thrilled by them, but they left me non-plussed.

Anyway - Ethernet cables.

Please. DO tell....*diablo*
 

CnoEvil

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Native_bon said:
Hey Cno, seems you had a good time there. One thing I know for sure, you are very particular about bright & brittle sounding Hifi. I am of the opinion that 90% of hifi sounds brittle, harsh & with presence of sibilance. I suppose at this point in time, prices & specifications are not to hand. I happen to listen to the  Akurate DS at Oranges & lemons Hifi shop in London & was very impressed.    I would go as far as saying one of the best source players I have heard till date.

Interesting on your findings about the the limitations of the Arcam streamer in a revealing system.  If any updates am more than Interested to hear them.  *yes3*
What system was the Akurate DS playing in.....it's a very impressive bit of kit (IMO).
 

drummerman

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CnoEvil said:
It was at this point that the evening took a few unexpected turns, in the way that only hifi can. Following on from Kef, Rob from Audioquest stepped up. For those of you old enough to remember the Nyteck amp...it was the brainchild of his father....anyway, despite having a lot of expensive cables attached to the back of the various bits of kit, he demoed ETHERNET CABLES!! Now, as I can already sense the hackles of every sane person on this forum rise at the insanity of this, I'm not going to go into what I heard...but will reluctantly do so, if there a general appetite for such madness. My credibility is bad enough already.

You know I would never normally ask you this ... but what did you hear? ;-)
 

CnoEvil

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Infiniteloop said:
Hi Cno, your findings on the Ref's treble echo mine from a few weeks back. If you remember, I heard the Ref 1's with a SME TT through my Devialet 200 and thought they sounded a little dry. This was confirmed when they were swapped out for my present in-system Focals, which were much more liquid and natural (less HiFi, I guess!) than the Ref 1's. I was expecting to be thrilled by them, but they left me non-plussed.
Yet, as stated, I have heard them sounding absolutely superb.

They have astonishing resolution and show up even the tiniest weakness, or tonal character in a system.

They are less "System Dependant" than my older Refs, which allows them to pair with a greater variety of amps...but the resolution and ambient detail retrieval is at another level...so be prepared to hear exactly how good the system is. The guy from Kef said the sweeter tone was IIRC, something to do with a simpler "lower order" crossover, which came from the Blade and gave less distortion.

There has been a review in Hif+ of the Ref 1s, where the reviewer concludes by saying that if he got any more enthusiastic, he would be locked up in a rubber room.
 

CnoEvil

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Infiniteloop said:
Anyway - Ethernet cables.

Please. DO tell....*diablo*

WARNING!

I am now going to head off into an alternative reality, which is governed by a different set of rules and where things are turned on their head

I strongly suggest that anyone of a sound mind or scientific bent, retreat quickly and safely into the comfort of the Laws of Physics, Placebo, gullible Audiophools and Snake Oil salesmen.

I also suggest that newbies read no further in case they get infected by my heresy.

At this point, I would also like to point out that no blind tests were conducted....so if this is the only yardstick that you judge anything by, then these thoughts and insights will hold no credibility what so ever. Right, with those warnings and provisos out of the way, here is my perception of what happened...

After Mr. Kef had finished, Rob from Audioquest took the stage. He was gentle, humble, amusing and straightforward (if that's possible for someone selling cables).

It would have been much easier for him to demo the raft of expensive cables that he had with him....but no....he was going to try and persuade a room full of very sceptical audiophiles that Ethernet cables make a difference. I'm a cable believer....but Ethernet Cables...now that was a stretch too far.

IMO. This was a high risk strategy, because if no differences were heard, then whatever credibility that him and his products might have had, would be trashed. I can say with certainty, that not one of us expected to hear a difference....especially as there were meters of ordinary Ethernet cable coming from the top floor of the shop, through various switches and hubs to another switchbox at the back of the Streamer. The only bit of cable being replaced was 1.5 meters from the switch to the streamer. Totally bonkers to even attempt this, as it simply couldn't have any effect.

He played the movie soundtrack, Down to the river, by Alison Krauss. First off was the standard stuff. Everything was played twice before changing...though the changing was not seamless, but the volume setting on the amp remained untouched.

He used 3 different priced offerings - Pearl, Cinnamon and Diamond. He didn't tell us what to listen for, or what he expected us to hear...he just swapped between cables and asked us if we heard anything.

When some gave their impressions and asked what was going on, Rob simply said that he had no idea, as this was something that nobody ever believed was possible. It was something that you had to try for yourself, preferably in your own home, with your own system and music.

When asked why Audioquest had even considered making these in the first place, he replied that it was by accident. During trials of their other cables, somebody trod on the Ethernet cable, which pulled it out of the back of the system.

When it was replaced with a different one, the system sounded different..they tracked it down to the Ethernet cable and started messing about and to their immense surprise, found it made a difference.....now I can't possibly comment on the validity of this story.

I am very aware how bizarre all this sounds and certainly don't expect anyone to believe me.

I deliberately haven't described what I heard, as I hope that I can persuade Mrs Cno to give her impressions. She has no geeky interest in equipment or cables or anything else....she simply has great hearing and knows if the music sounds right to her.

If she isn't up for this, I will do my best to describe what I believe I heard.

If any nutters are still reading, thank you for entertaining my nonsense.
 

MickyBlue

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12088474_915984631808426_2514708725256482899_n_zpsdow1uk0q.jpg
 

Infiniteloop

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CnoEvil said:
Infiniteloop said:
Anyway - Ethernet cables.

Please. DO tell....*diablo*

WARNING!

I am now going to head off into an alternative reality, which is governed by a different set of rules and where things are turned on their head

I strongly suggest that anyone of a sound mind or scientific bent, retreat quickly and safely into the comfort of the Laws of Physics, Placebo, gullible Audiophools and Snake Oil salesmen.

I also suggest that newbies read no further in case they get infected by my heresy.

At this point, I would also like to point out that no blind tests were conducted....so if this is the only yardstick that you judge anything by, then these thoughts and insights will hold no credibility what so ever. Right, with those warnings and provisos out of the way, here is my perception of what happened...

After Mr. Kef had finished, Rob from Audioquest took the stage. He was gentle, humble, amusing and straightforward (if that's possible for someone selling cables).

It would have been much easier for him to demo the raft of expensive cables that he had with him....but no....he was going to try and persuade a room full of very sceptical audiophiles that Ethernet cables make a difference. I'm a cable believer....but Ethernet Cables...now that was a stretch too far.

IMO. This was a high risk strategy, because if no differences were heard, then whatever credibility that him and his products might have had, would be trashed. I can say with certainty, that not one of us expected to hear a difference....especially as there were meters of ordinary Ethernet cable coming from the top floor of the shop, through various switches and hubs to another switchbox at the back of the Streamer. The only bit of cable being replaced was 1.5 meters from the switch to the streamer. Totally bonkers to even attempt this, as it simply couldn't have any effect.

He played the movie soundtrack, Down to the river, by Alison Krauss. First off was the standard stuff. Everything was played twice before changing...though the changing was not seamless, but the volume setting on the amp remained untouched.

He used 3 different priced offerings - Pearl, Cinnamon and Diamond. He didn't tell us what to listen for, or what he expected us to hear...he just swapped between cables and asked us if we heard anything.

When some gave their impressions and asked what was going on, Rob simply said that he had no idea, as this was something that nobody ever believed was possible. It was something that you had to try for yourself, preferably in your own home, with your own system and music.

When asked why Audioquest had even considered making these in the first place, he replied that it was by accident. During trials of their other cables, somebody trod on the Ethernet cable, which pulled it out of the back of the system.

When it was replaced with a different one, the system sounded different..they tracked it down to the Ethernet cable and started messing about and to their immense surprise, found it made a difference.....now I can't possibly comment on the validity of this story.

I am very aware how bizarre all this sounds and certainly don't expect anyone to believe me.

I deliberately haven't described what I heard, as I hope that I can persuade Mrs Cno to give her impressions. She has no geeky interest in equipment or cables or anything else....she simply has great hearing and knows if the music sounds right to her.

If she isn't up for this, I will do my best to describe what I believe I heard.

If any nutters are still reading, thank you for entertaining my nonsense.

Since we've entered the Twilight Zone, I'm going to add that it's a pity you didn't have an Uptone Audio USB Regen to hand.......
 

chebby

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Time to find the 'toilet window' and escape.

All of my digital cables are from Belkin. These are my choice of ethernet cables. (£6.40)

My only AudioQuest product is this 3.5mm Toslink adaptor. It was the only one I could get from Amazon, delivered free the next day (as a Prime member) without having to buy something else to go with it.

It cost £2 more than the £3.88 Belkin optical cable it was attached to! (I actually felt a bit ashamed of this idiocy but it was only a £2 extravagance and it seems to work ok.)

I have since noticed the £3.88 optical cable is now £5.99 so that's made up for it :)
 

chebby

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Infiniteloop said:
If that works for you and you think those cables enable your system to work at its best, so you're getting the best value out of it that's great.

You tease!

I'm not taking the bait.

(Can you hurry up with that crowbar Cno? They are closing in!)
 

CnoEvil

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chebby said:
Infiniteloop said:
If that works for you and you think those cables enable your system to work at its best, so you're getting the best value out of it that's great.     ?

You tease!?

I'm not taking the bait.

(Can you hurry up with that crowbar Cno? They are closing in!)
I only have Wasp Spray I'm afraid....I might rustle up a toothpick though.
 

Infiniteloop

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chebby said:
Time to find the 'toilet window' and escape.

All of my digital cables are from Belkin. These are my choice of ethernet cables. (£6.40)

My only AudioQuest product is this 3.5mm Toslink adaptor. It was the only one I could get from Amazon, delivered free the next day (as a Prime member) without having to buy something else to go with it.

It cost £2 more than the £3.88 Belkin optical cable it was attached to! (I actually felt a bit ashamed of this idiocy but it was only a £2 extravagance and it seems to work ok.)

I have since noticed the £3.88 optical cable is now £5.99 so that's made up for it :)

If that works for you and you think those cables enable your system to work at its best, so you're getting the best value out of it, that's great.
 

Infiniteloop

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chebby said:
Infiniteloop said:
If that works for you and you think those cables enable your system to work at its best, so you're getting the best value out of it that's great.

You tease!

I'm not taking the bait.

(Can you hurry up with that crowbar Cno? They are closing in!)

What bait? I'm genuinely happy that you believe you're getting the best out of your system.

- What more could you ask for?
 

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