A new system for £857 what are you buying?

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Fandango Andy

Well-known member
We're actually comparing apples to oranges here as the standard inflation rate (pound value in 2002 compared to today's £ value) does not apply to consumer electronics.

Yes, and no! Firstly this was just for fun, to see what people suggested.

A few months ago What HiFi suggested that the budget amplifiers of the 80s-early 00s no longer existed. Something that was roundly disproved on this forum. The flip side to this, others have suggested small inexpensive class D amps from China are the future of budget HiFi.

The thing I was interested in was what people would choose as a source. Early 2000s it was a about CD. But since the streaming has taken over, and a the vinyl revival is in full swing. For me (unless you want to go like for like on components) the obvious choice is amp, speakers, and Streamer. I think one person went with actove/powered speakers. And there is always the option of vlowing the budget on amp and speakers, and using a hdmi or rca from a PC or smartphone. In short, there are more options today. So maybe you correct about apples and oranges!
 

Fandango Andy

Well-known member
Does it have to.be brand new. If not, that opens a wealth of choice.
Interpret it how you want. Imagine you are starting from scratch and have budgeted around £857 (plus the price of some modest cables) to spend on a hifi what would you buy?

From reading comments on this forum some people will never consider second hand as it will explode as soon as you plug it in. Others refuse to buy new as its a waste of money. A few months ago I put together a hypothetical system (based on watched components sold on ebay) for £99. There were comments suggesting "you can't get hifi foe £99" rathe than those components aren't hifi. For the record I have three systems throughout my house, all contain components purchased new and second hand.
 
Yes, and no! Firstly this was just for fun, to see what people suggested.

A few months ago What HiFi suggested that the budget amplifiers of the 80s-early 00s no longer existed. Something that was roundly disproved on this forum. The flip side to this, others have suggested small inexpensive class D amps from China are the future of budget HiFi.

The thing I was interested in was what people would choose as a source. Early 2000s it was a about CD. But since the streaming has taken over, and a the vinyl revival is in full swing. For me (unless you want to go like for like on components) the obvious choice is amp, speakers, and Streamer. I think one person went with actove/powered speakers. And there is always the option of vlowing the budget on amp and speakers, and using a hdmi or rca from a PC or smartphone. In short, there are more options today. So maybe you correct about apples and oranges!
To my mind blowing the budget on amp and speakers is cheating as the system must include a source, and that cannot be something you have hanging around at home as that defeats the object of the question you posed.
If you intend using a tablet or mobile phone as an integral part of the system or a router etc. then the cost of these items should be included in the total cost of said system
 
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DCarmi

Well-known member
If you intend using a tablet or mobile phone as an integral part of the system or a router etc. then the cost of these items should be included in the total cost of said system
It depends what you mean by scratch. Most people will already have a phone and internet. They may also have a streaming service which they use with their phone and maybe even a smart speaker. The issue then becomes how do I get this into a hifi setup.

For example not one of my adult kids have hifi but they all have little speakers of some description, internet and a streaming service. So in the unlikely event they want to up the audio quality, what should they do.

Personally I'd go the PM6007, CD6007 and QA 3020i as suggested my @My2Cents or I'd swap the CD player for a WiiM Pro (or if I were smart I'd keep the CD, I'd ask Dad if he has any CCAs going free).
 

Cricketbat70

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It depends what you mean by scratch. Most people will already have a phone and internet. They may also have a streaming service which they use with their phone and maybe even a smart speaker. The issue then becomes how do I get this into a hifi setup.

For example not one of my adult kids have hifi but they all have little speakers of some description, internet and a streaming service. So in the unlikely event they want to up the audio quality, what should they do.

Personally I'd go the PM6007, CD6007 and QA 3020i as suggested my @My2Cents or I'd swap the CD player for a WiiM Pro (or if I were smart I'd keep the CD, I'd ask Dad if he has any CCAs going free).
Almost the same in my house. Three adult kids still at home two of them just use Spotify and phones, the other has a pioneer AV receiver connected to his PC in the cellar. I have two old systems in my house both with CCA's connected via ethernet adaptors, I found out about thanks to the what hi-fi forums
 
It depends what you mean by scratch. Most people will already have a phone and internet. They may also have a streaming service which they use with their phone and maybe even a smart speaker. The issue then becomes how do I get this into a hifi setup.

For example not one of my adult kids have hifi but they all have little speakers of some description, internet and a streaming service. So in the unlikely event they want to up the audio quality, what should they do.

Personally I'd go the PM6007, CD6007 and QA 3020i as suggested my @My2Cents or I'd swap the CD player for a WiiM Pro (or if I were smart I'd keep the CD, I'd ask Dad if he has any CCAs going free).
To me "a new system" means exactly that, buying everything you need to create a working system.
This does not include items you might already own.
I have a few spare amplifiers hanging around somewhere.... :cool:
 

gasolin

Well-known member
WIIM amp 385 euros

Cdplayer small size could be Tangent CD II 160 euros or a regular sized player denon,yamaha with digital out so it can be used with built in dac in the amp

Speakers mabye ARGON AUDIO FORUS 5 268 euro

773 euros or 833 dollars + 50 for cables could be qed (with the cheap triangle cdplayer)

Same som money a get a pair of q a 3303i £249 https://www.richersounds.com/q-acoustics-3030i-black.html
 
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DCarmi

Well-known member
To me "a new system" means exactly that, buying everything you need to create a working system.

OK. With all due respect, seems a little pedantic to me because I doubt there are many people who want a music system who don't already have Internet or mobiles, these days. Even my 79 year old Aunt has an iPad, iPhone 14, smart TV system, smart speaker and Kindle (but no hifi).

However the CD solution would allow a person to buy a fair few few discs, with the cash left over. (My Aunt probably would not want CDs though, since she dislikes clutter. She'd probably just stick with the Alexa or more possibly go with something neat and tidy like a Denon CEOL.)
 
OK. With all due respect, seems a little pedantic to me because I doubt there are many people who want a music system who don't already have Internet or mobiles, these days. Even my 79 year old Aunt has an iPad, iPhone 14, smart TV system, smart speaker and Kindle (but no hifi).

However the CD solution would allow a person to buy a fair few few discs, with the cash left over. (My Aunt probably would not want CDs though, since she dislikes clutter. She'd probably just stick with the Alexa or more possibly go with something neat and tidy like a Denon CEOL.)
Not sure what you mean by pedantic.
It's quite simple. If you are buying kit that relies on something you already own to make it a complete system then what you are, in fact, purchasing is a couple of accessories not a system. :)
 

DCarmi

Well-known member
Not sure what you mean by pedantic.
Sorry, I am not trying to be insulting and you are welcome to disagree with me.

When I got my first "hi-fi", I already had a collection of discs and tapes, which I had played on equipment that was definitely not hifi.

So I get an amp, speakers , turntable and cassette deck and I now have something that approximates to hifi. The media is not counted as hifi and pre-existed the new equipment but now sounds so much better. Even if the record I am now playing is somewhat battered the system is still hifi.

So my argument is that the hifi does not include the infrastructure to power equipment or store the music. Hi-fi is the bit that processes the media (disc or signal) to listen to.

In my mind listening to music on phone via £10 BT headphones is not hifi. Nor is listening to Qobuz on a Nest mini hi-fi.

Listening to the same music on a PM6007/WiiM Pro is hifi. The phone and streaming service is just the media source. It does not matter whether I have a £66 phone or a £1500 one, because neither counts as hifi any more than a remote control does.
 

Fandango Andy

Well-known member
To my mind blowing the budget on amp and speakers is cheating as the system must include a source, and that cannot be something you have hanging around at home as that defeats the object of the question you posed.
If you intend using a tablet or mobile phone as an integral part of the system or a router etc. then the cost of these items should be included in the total cost of said system

I think you are over thinking it.

If I think back to 2002, my phone could play MP3 but could hold much, I had a laptop but was still on dialup and had no music on it. I wouldn't know what a tablet was, had the term even been invented? and I was five years away from having an Ipod. But most people have a way of playing music these days such as a smart phone.
 

Fandango Andy

Well-known member
As mentioned on a previous response, I had an answer in mind when I posted this. As others have already posted Richer Sounds are offering the following bundle for £799: Marantz PM6007 & Marantz CD6007 with Q Acoustics Q3020I.

This would be a great system for the budget. Alternatively, Mission LX-2 MkII are only £30 more in store, so I'm sure you could get them within budget instead to make a modern equivalent of the 2002 setup.

But what would I actually spend my money on?
  • Marantz PM6007 £369
  • Triangle Borea BR02 £299
  • WiiM Mini £76.49 *
  • SMSL SU-1 £79.99
= £824.48** £744.49 - EDIT I have just been reminded I don't need a DAC there is one in the amp!

* Pro Plus is over budget, I could go Pro, but for similar money I think Mini + a DACs is a better option.
**All prices based on what you can buy components for today if you shop around. There are a few open box deals that are even cheaper. The RRP would be £928.
 
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gasolin

Well-known member
As mentioned on a previous response, I had an answer in mind when I posted this. As others have already posted Richer Sounds are offering the following bundle for £799: Marantz PM6007 & Marantz CD6007 with Q Acoustics Q3020I.

This would be a great system for the budget. Alternatively, Mission LX-2 MkII are only £30 more in store, so I'm sure you could get them within budget instead to make a modern equivalent of the 2002 setup.

But what would I actually spend my money on?
  • Marantz PM6007 £369
  • Triangle Borea BR02 £299
  • WiiM Mini £76.49 *
  • SMSL SU-1 £79.99
= £824.48**

* Pro Plus is over budget, I could go Pro, but for similar money I think Mini + a DAC is a better option.
**All prices based on what you can buy components for today if you shop around. There are a few open box deals that are even cheaper. The RRP would be £928.
why would you buy a dac when the amp has one ?

Why not a wiim amp and buy better speakers ?
 
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Fandango Andy

Well-known member
why would you buy a dac when the amp has one ?

Why not a wiim amp and buy better speakers ?

You are correct about the DAC. I have two old amps, and am used to using external DAC's with them. If I drop the SMSL, along with the remaining budget, thats enough for a good second-hand CD player!

I will stick with the Marantz over a WiiM Amp for a few reasons, first and foremost I like Marantz. Streaming technology is moving on and prices coming down, keeping amp and streamer separate gives better upgrade options for future. The WiiM amp hasn't been around long enough to understand their longevity. But mainly just because I like Marantz!

As for Speakers, The Triangles are great.
 
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Fandango Andy

Well-known member
I think you can do better https://www.richersounds.com/q-acoustics-3030i-black.html

I might change my setup in #33 to the 3030i's £249 for a pair is very good deal

They are also excellent, I have three pairs of their smaller sibling (3010I) in my AV system.

I would happily hade the 3030!'s. However, I have heard them in a blind test with three other similar priced speakers. There was nothing to choose between the Q and the Triangle in the voting, I put the Triangle slightly ahead. The person who was actually buying went for the Q Acoustics as much for looks as sound!
 

Sound as a Pound

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"If you were starting from scratch and had £857 to spend what are you buying?"

I rely on stored FLAC files. This is my idea of a complete system on a tight budget. The Fosi V3 monos are on Kickstarter so they're cheap at the moment and the price includes import duty and VAT. All the rest are from Amazon UK where you can use a free Prime trial to make delivery costless.

Lenovo ThinkPad T460 14", Core i5-6300U, 16GB RAM, 1TB £244
USB out into
SMSL D-6s DAC Pre £180
Balanced out to
2 * Fosi Audio V3 Mono with 2 * 48V 5A PSU £180
Outputs to
Q Acoustics 3030i £242

The Fosi Kickstarter will come with a pair of 3m XLR (or RCA) cables.

Total £846









 

Sound as a Pound

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Sound as a Pound

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Don't think you can get for that price with shipping and import taxes
Somebody asked about shipping in the comments.
"Regarding the final price for two mono V3 with two PSU 48V 5A plus the transport tax, please specify for the destination in the EU, if the customs tax and the VAT tax are included."

Fosi replied with
"Hi, we will cover all duties and taxes with our shipping logistics to EU."

One of the US backers mentioned the cost of the Muses op-amp as $21 whereas in the UK it is £21 which seems to reflect the higher UK VAT rate already built into the prices that are shown.

Yes, the price is the same with either 2*5A or 1*10A PSU. There have been a few issues reported with sharing the 10A unit between 2 amps. Fosi says they should have that issue resolved by the time they are ready to ship. I'd prefer separate ones anyway.
 

Sound as a Pound

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48 volt/10a so there is 2 power supplies ?
There are two "basic" configurations for a pair of the V3 Mono amps. Either to give each amp its own 48V 5A supply or to share a 48V 10A supply between 2 amps with a splitter cable.
The 2 PSU route means more clutter but the amps can be placed further apart from one another and likely nearer to their respective speaker, enabling shorter speaker cable but longer pre-amp to power-amp cables. The shared supply results in less clutter but the amps need to be nearer to one another.
In terms of performance, the separate supplies should offer theoretical benefits but whether that will be heard in practice unless the amps are driven to the limit of what the supply can deliver is open to debate. Most would say not.
There are also more expensive Gallium Nitride (GaN) power supplies that are a bit smaller and even more efficient in power draw (less heat).
Those who don't plan to drive the amps too hard can use smaller supplies, say a 36V, 6A supply per amp, and the amps will run cooler and be less stressed in moderate use but not be able to deliver as much power as the meatier supplies. That might extend the amps life at the expense of less headroom.
Some are looking to run single amps off the 48V 10A supplies for use with speakers whose impedance drops below 4 ohms as that will deliver marginally more power into low impedances. That might be useful to run passive subs with them for those with the means to do the needed EQ and signal processing.
So, there are a number of PSU options but the 2 primary ones are those being offered by Fosi on the Kickstarter.
The Aiyima supplies will also work on them, they have similar ratings and use the same connector.
 
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gasolin

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i have seen about using one power supply for 2 amps and i think you would choose the 48v, 10 a for that, or else you don't have enough powerhttps://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/fosi-audio-v3-mono-amplifier-review.53474/

2024-05-09 02_00_06-Fosi Audio V3 Mono Amplifier Review _ Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum – G...jpg

mabye 50 watt in 8 ohm and 100 watt in 4 ohm 1% thds with one 48v 10 a psu

is it worth that ?
 

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