A balanced system?

[camcroft]

See what you've started! @plastic penguin

Buy something decent and you will have none of the problems mentioned.

 

[Gray]

Project also claims that the positive and negative voltages are always being generated by both MM and MC:

Which obviously allows for a balanced connection in terms of pro-audio.

They're right about all cartridges giving both positive and negative voltages (with respect to a central 0v).

But no cartridge with a common ground can be used in their balanced system.

 

[Vincent Kars]

Which obviously allows for a balanced connection in terms of pro-audio.

I see, the L- is the inverse of the L+ hence they are the cold and the hot.

 

[Gray]

this has noting to do with common noise rejection as we know it from professional balanced connections.

The way I see it Vincent, it's got everything to do with it - in principle, it's identical to pro balanced microphones.
In the mic, the voice coil connects, via 2 cores and a ground, to the balanced mixer.
In the balanced cartridge, each channel coil connects via 2 cores and a ground.....to their X3B balanced box.

That's what genuinely takes this above snake oil territory 👍

 

[npxavar]

In the mic, the voice coil connects, via 2 cores and a ground, to the balanced mixer.

The mic is mono, correct? For stereo you need 4 cores.

 

[Gray]

The mic is mono, correct? For stereo you need 4 cores.

Yes.

For the cartridge to be balanced, each channel coil needs its own separate pair.
(They can't share a single return, as so many do).

 

[Vincent Kars]

The way I see it Vincent, it's got everything to do with it - in principle, it's identical to pro balanced microphones.
In the mic, the voice coil connects, via 2 cores and a ground, to the balanced mixer.
In the balanced cartridge, each channel coil connects via 2 cores and a ground.....to their X3B balanced box.

That's what genuinely takes this above snake oil territory 👍

I was totally wrong footed there. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[plastic penguin]

See what you've started! @plastic penguin

Yep. This thread is deeper than expected.

 

[npxavar]

And for deep pockets, certainly!

 

[Al ears]

And for deep pockets, certainly!

It was quite a revolutionary move for Project to come out with a system like this, one can hope that over time the whole set-up might be produced more cheaply.

 

[plastic penguin]

It was quite a revolutionary move for Project to come out with a system like this, one can hope that over time the whole set-up might be produced more cheaply.

According to @daytona600 Thorens, Teac and many others use a balanced set-up.

 

[Al ears]

According to @daytona600 Thorens, Teac and many others use a balanced set-up.

I very much doubt it but would be interested to see examples. Did I miss his input into this thread?
To my mind Project have the only balanced analogue front end option to date.

 

[plastic penguin]

Thorens / Teac and many others offer XLR balanced outputs
XLR Fully balanced done correctly sounds better & Fitted as standard to all very expensive hifi components & AV
XLR connector/cables are 95% cheaper than audiophile cables as made & used in Vast volumes globally

View attachment 4870View attachment 4871View attachment 4872

I very much doubt it but would be interested to see examples. Did I miss his input into this thread?
To my mind Project have the only balanced analogue front end option to date.

That's what he said a page back.

 

[Gray]

According to @daytona600 Thorens, Teac and many others use a balanced set-up.

Yeah I do remember seeing the Thorens one now, but I'd forgotten all about it.

 

[npxavar]

Thorens, Teac et al. have it for way more expensive, cost-no-object turntables though.

 

[npxavar]

One reason I can think of why nobody brought MC in this price range before is that MC cartridges don't have replaceable styli. You have to change the whole cartridge. There are a few exceptions but not among the Quintet series.

 

[Al ears]

That's what he said a page back.

Still can't see it on this thread? what was the post number?

 

[WayneKerr]

Still can't see it on this thread? what was the post number?

Post #71.

 

[Al ears]

Post #71.

That's really odd, no wonder I could see it, l don't have a #71.
Mine skip from 70 to 72 for some strange reason.

 

[Al ears]

That's really odd, no wonder I could see it, l don't have a #71.
Mine skip from 70 to 72 for some strange reason.

I have figured it out.
Somehow I had @daytona600 ticked as 'Ignore ', no idea why.
He is correct in the fact they have XLR output options but they wouldn't be balanced necessarily without a MC cartridge and a suitable phono preamp.

 

[Gray]

Is it the case that there are no balanced MM cartridges?

 

[Al ears]

Is it the case that there are no balanced MM cartridges?

No, by their very design it would appear, and this is why Project have fitted a Quintet, although I am no expert here.

 

[npxavar]

One reason I can think of why nobody brought MC in this price range before is that MC cartridges don't have replaceable styli. You have to change the whole cartridge. There are a few exceptions but not among the Quintet series.

Actually Rega introduced the Planar 6 + Ania MC cartridge in 2021? Review here. It includes a separate linear power supply but no balanced outputs.

 

[plastic penguin]

Actually Rega introduced the Planar 6 + Ania MC cartridge in 2021? Review here. It includes a separate linear power supply but no balanced outputs.

Just because a company fits a MC rather than a price compatible MM doesn't necessarily mean it has to be balanced. It's only a relative new approach by Pro-ject.

 

[Oxfordian]

This is a brilliant thread, so much helpful discussion on these balanced TT set-ups.

At the end of July I will be having a demo of Project's X9 with a DS3B Phono stage, and if all goes to plan I will be taking to the DS3B home on loan to test out as a MM phono stage to see how it compares to my Rega Fono.

My aim is to see if the DS3B is a step up from the Fono in terms of sound quality, if it is then does it also give me a potential 'In' to a balanced system at a later date via a Project TT or alternative.

There is still a question over how far up the chain that 'balance' connection could or should be maintained. Many amps now have balanced inputs and the DS3B has balanced outputs so I wonder if there would be an audible difference between the TT balanced to the DS3B, then balanced into an amp compared to a set up where the TT balanced to the DS3B and then RCA to the amp.

This is going to be an interesting journey.