A balanced system?
- Thread starter plastic penguin
- Start date
Al ears
Well-known member
Answer is yes, as is mine, if we are talking about electrical connection.
It's not about whether your system has synergy or anything like that, assuming that is what you are thinking.
Hopefully others will contribute soon
I've just phoned SSAV at Guildford. He had trouble explaining and just put the phone down. Perhaps he thought I'd just escaped 😁
Still none the wiser.
Still none the wiser.
I've just called Henley Audio, UK distributor for Pro-ject. He explained it's to do with the signal path, which results in almost zero background noise. He's also directed me to a link in the Pro-ject audio section which explains all.
I'll have a goosey later.
I'll have a goosey later.
Oxfordian
Well-known member
I know very little about this 'Balanced' set up but enjoyed my demo of ProJect's X9 balanced turntable a few weeks back, and am interested in finding out a bit more about what this balanced actually is, is it a better connection for a TT or is it just marketing hogwash.
I am also conscious that there are a good number of amplifiers and phono stages that I have looked at on the internet that have these balanced inputs and outputs.
What are they and how do they work?
The spiel below is taken from the blurb on Project's web page for the X2B, hopefully this makes some sense;
Balanced audio connections are usually known from the professional sector like recording studios or live concerts. It is very important to have a stable & interference free connection, as these signals will be highly amplified. The same applies to the connection from your turntable to the phono preamplifier. The big advantage of a balanced connection is its ability to remove picked up noise and interferences. And best of all, cartridges by nature are already balanced signal transducers! With True Balanced your are simply using everything, literally everything, that your cartridge is picking up from the record groove. You are not throwing away half of the usable signal, like is done in typical single-ended RCA phono connections.
The X2 B comes with mini XRL and RCA outputs and with our standard semi-balanced Connect it Phono E RCA cable. By upgrading it to our fully balanced mini XLR to mini XLR version (available separately) and using a balanced phono stage, like our Phono Box S3 B or DS3 B, you are fully set-up for the True Balanced experience. This leads to increased dynamics, less noise and improved signal to noise ratios. You can imagine it, like hearing parts of your music that literally were not there before.
I am also conscious that there are a good number of amplifiers and phono stages that I have looked at on the internet that have these balanced inputs and outputs.
What are they and how do they work?
The spiel below is taken from the blurb on Project's web page for the X2B, hopefully this makes some sense;
Balanced audio connections are usually known from the professional sector like recording studios or live concerts. It is very important to have a stable & interference free connection, as these signals will be highly amplified. The same applies to the connection from your turntable to the phono preamplifier. The big advantage of a balanced connection is its ability to remove picked up noise and interferences. And best of all, cartridges by nature are already balanced signal transducers! With True Balanced your are simply using everything, literally everything, that your cartridge is picking up from the record groove. You are not throwing away half of the usable signal, like is done in typical single-ended RCA phono connections.
The X2 B comes with mini XRL and RCA outputs and with our standard semi-balanced Connect it Phono E RCA cable. By upgrading it to our fully balanced mini XLR to mini XLR version (available separately) and using a balanced phono stage, like our Phono Box S3 B or DS3 B, you are fully set-up for the True Balanced experience. This leads to increased dynamics, less noise and improved signal to noise ratios. You can imagine it, like hearing parts of your music that literally were not there before.
Al ears
Well-known member
This review might help, at least the analogue front end bit.
Pro-Ject X2 B/Phono Box S3 B Turntable/Phono Preamp
Moving-coil pick-ups are inherently 'balanced' and Pro-Ject is determined to reveal them at their best with this balanced-wired version of the X2 deck and phono preamp One burning question is begged by the arrival of Pro-Ject's X2 B turntable and Phono Box S3 B phono stage: why did it take so...
As might this when it comes to connections...
Balanced vs unbalanced connections—what does it mean and what are the benefits?
A balanced connection is touted as the best you can get with audio gear, but what are the real-world benefits to these connectors?
www.soundguys.com
matthewpianist
Well-known member
Not a turntable, but still relevant I think...
When I had the Quad Artera Play (Pre) and Artera Stereo (Power), they had the option of being connected together using either single-ended RCA or balanced XLR. I tried both, and it made zero difference.
Balanced cables make a difference over the long runs used in pro audio studio and backline applications, but IME aren't worth getting hung up on in a domestic setting.
When I had the Quad Artera Play (Pre) and Artera Stereo (Power), they had the option of being connected together using either single-ended RCA or balanced XLR. I tried both, and it made zero difference.
Balanced cables make a difference over the long runs used in pro audio studio and backline applications, but IME aren't worth getting hung up on in a domestic setting.
Thanks. I've just read the above on the Pro-ject section.This review might help, at least the analogue front end bit.
Pro-Ject X2 B/Phono Box S3 B Turntable/Phono Preamp
Moving-coil pick-ups are inherently 'balanced' and Pro-Ject is determined to reveal them at their best with this balanced-wired version of the X2 deck and phono preamp One burning question is begged by the arrival of Pro-Ject's X2 B turntable and Phono Box S3 B phono stage: why did it take so...hifinews.com
As might this when it comes to connections...
Balanced vs unbalanced connections—what does it mean and what are the benefits?
A balanced connection is touted as the best you can get with audio gear, but what are the real-world benefits to these connectors?www.soundguys.com
Al ears
Well-known member
thought it might help when it comes to the reasoning behind a balanced turntable as this is the first I am aware of.
Al ears
Well-known member
Balanced cables also, down to the way they handle signals, are also better at all forms of noise rejection.
This is particularly relevant when dealing with very low voltages that you get from a vinyl based front end, perhaps less so when dealing with an amplified digital output, as you note.
Put it this way, if I could somehow make my turntable / phono preamp set-up balanced then I would.
Note: this would only apply if you use a MC cartridge in the first place...
Until I've compared the two side by side (MM & MC) I reserve judgement. But blurb alone doesn't convince me.
Al ears
Well-known member
Al ears
Well-known member
I did say you would have to compare a price equivalent system. However, I know where my money would go...
Oxfordian
Well-known member
Gray
Well-known member
That's the point.
For a metre or two of line level interconnection it's easy to see balanced as unnecessary, a bit of a gimmick.
But with just a few millivolts of signal out of a cartridge this has the potential to be far from a gimmick - credit to Project.
I wouldn't be surprised if they use starquad balanced cable all the way from cart to their box too, which has proven additional interference rejection.
How balanced works is that the screen is only a screen - it's not used as a signal return.
You've got two equal twisted conductors (4 in the starquad cable) carrying the signal.
That balanced box of theirs 'looks' at the pairs for differences. Unlike the wanted signal, interference affects each of the pair legs differently......so it's easily found and very effectively rejected.
And, as we know, for "inky black backgrounds" 🙄, a lower noise floor is never a bad idea.
Oxfordian
Well-known member
Okay, this makes some sense, a tiny signal needs every help it can get so a balanced system is a very good idea if implemented properly.
My question is, why hasn't this been done before as from what I have gleaned from reading article after article today the technology has been around for a while, why has it taken so long to get to TT's being offered with these 'balanced' outputs?
Does any other brand make TT's with balanced outputs for MC carts or is it just Pro-Ject?
Well yes, but it's still puzzling when they slap on a Ortofon Quintet Red MC when it retails for around £300 and the Blue is only £100 more.
Oxfordian
Well-known member
Put the blue on the next TT models up the line, the X6SB and X8, everything is price oriented, spend a few hundred more and get……….
I was looking at the X8 earlier this evening and at £2100 it isn’t cheap, plus a balanced MC phono stage needs to be added to your hifi racks and all of a sudden you’re down £2600 or thereabouts. Eek!!!!!!!!
And if your new phono stage has balanced outputs does your amp have balanced inputs - mine doesn’t, more Eek!!!!!!
At least this is what I believe, if you’re going to get the best out of a balanced set-up then you have to follow it through, or am I missing something?
No idea if my phono stage is balanced or not. All I know about it is it's switchable. Pointless in buying another phono stage, especially as it's a very good for MM carts.
Just seems like a lot of faff for just a subtle improvement.
Perhaps if I had a Tucana it would be more viable, but I'd rather upgrade the turntable to something like a Clearaudio Concept table (assuming it is a upgrade).
I'll give the MC a good comparison with my Classic and see if the difference is worth the additional costs.
Oxfordian
Well-known member
I think that it is accepted that a MC cartridge is better for vinyl replay but with some caveats, namely the system needs to be able to showcase what the cartridge is retrieving.
As a MC cartridge is balanced by design having the rest of the vinyl chain follow that balanced input seems logical but does that mean that everything - Turntable, phono stage, amplifier all have to be balanced?
If they do then heading down this route is going to be expensive.
As a MC cartridge is balanced by design having the rest of the vinyl chain follow that balanced input seems logical but does that mean that everything - Turntable, phono stage, amplifier all have to be balanced?
If they do then heading down this route is going to be expensive.
Symples
Well-known member
Gray
Well-known member
That was my immediate question when I saw this turntable - when it could have been done long ago.
Gray
Well-known member
Switchable gain to cater for both MM and MC ✅
Balanced? ❌
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