6XP and ATC SCM7 or B&W 685

[edplaysdrums42]

Hi All

I currently have some MA RS1's with the Cyrus 6xp but there just not for me. I recently dug out my old B&W DM602's and wired them up to check they were working ok as i'm putting them up for sale and they sounded better to me than the RS1's.I dont have a lot of space and i've always liked the look of ATC speakers and being a closed design would help with positioning.I suppose the main thing is will 6XP have enough power for the ATC's? i only normally listen at low to medium levels or does it not really work like that?

The 685's have had some great reviews and hearing the DM602's again has made really consider them too? I listen to most kinds of music but rarely cranked up.

I found the RS1's a bit too uncontrolled and boomy with the bass and when i put the bungs in it seems to take the life out of the sound.

I cant really afford to upgrade the 6XP at the moment.

I'd be glad of any advice or opinions

Cheers Ed

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hi Ed

The thing to do is think long term - you need to know now what you want to end up with, and work towards it. The SCM7's are gutsy little speakers, but they are quite a low sensitivity (a trade off for being small and sealed). Many amps will drive them, but will come up short getting the best from them.

For these low sensitity speakers, an amplifier will need to powerful enough to bring them to life. If it lacks grunt and dynamics, the speaker will be left sounding lacklustre. The 6xp will drive the SCM7's, but don't expect the resultant sound to be spectacular.

The 685's are a higher sensitivity thanks to their ported cabinet, but their impedance drops to 4ohms in the bass region. Even though this should make them harder to drive than the ATC's, in practice they're actually easier to drive. Whether the 685's bear any close resemblance to your 602's really depends which version you have. If you have 602 S3's, then yes, they'll be similar in many ways, although they're not going to have that big punchy bass and soundstage of the 602's.

Basically, if you want to go for the SCM7's, you'll need to be looking at different amplification, unless you're going to add a power amplifier at a later date, or consider the 8xp instead. Audiolab's 8200A will be a better investment for the SCM7's.

 

[edplaysdrums42]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. What you are saying makes sense, ideally i need to upgrade the amp but i'll have to do it at a later date.

Do the ATC's need more power than the 6XP even at lower listening levels? i ask this because i could get the speakers first and sort out the amp when i can afford it. i suppose i'd be worried about how the speakers sound until the amp upgrade.

Cheers Ed

 

[BenLaw]

IME ATC sounds good at all volume levels. Louder just means more. If you like a detailed, neutral sound i couldn't recommend the SCM7s enough

Given that you have a concern over boomy bass, the sealed design of the 7s will be ideal, the B&W will not. I would have thought the Cyrus will drive them more than adequately, while the ATC will be a better long term bet as they will cope better with component such as amp upgrades.

 

[edplaysdrums42]

Thanks for your opinion Ben.

I suppose its down to if i think long or short term with my set up. Ever since i heard some ATC's at Maida Vale studios i've always wanted to own some, they blew me away, literally!

What i want is a very detailed sound but obviously with a limited budget.

Thanks again for your thoughts

Ed

 

[Frank Harvey]

edplaysdrums42:Do the ATC's need more power than the 6XP even at lower listening levels? i ask this because i could get the speakers first and sort out the amp when i can afford it. i suppose i'd be worried about how the speakers sound until the amp upgrade.
I find many hard to drive speakers tend to sound, not dull, but just not as they should if they're not driven sufficiently. It's not that the ATC's need more power (they will for higher volumes), but they tend to need more current in order for them to sound as dynamic and precise as they should do, and they need a fair degree of control too. They're a little like some KEF models, which need a good enough amplifier to bring out their true potential.

Which amplifier do you use at the moment?

 

[edplaysdrums42]

Cyrus 6XP

Ed

 

[MUSICRAFT]

edplaysdrums42:
Thanks for your opinion Ben.

I suppose its down to if i think long or short term with my set up. Ever since i heard some ATC's at Maida Vale studios i've always wanted to own some, they blew me away, literally!

What i want is a very detailed sound but obviously with a limited budget.

Thanks again for your thoughts

Ed

Hi Ed

Which ATC monitors did you hear at Maida Vale studios please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

edplaysdrums42:i suppose i'd be worried about how the speakers sound until the amp upgrade.
They'll be ok, just not sounding their best. Like I said, think long term.

 

[edplaysdrums42]

Hi Rick at Musicraft

I was at Maida Vale studios in about 1992 in studio 4 (i think) and the monitors looked like the SCM300ASL PRO or the equivalents at that time, they were built into the wall, they could of been custom made. When i heard them they brought a lump to me throat, i'd never heard anything as good as those before and i dont think since. Ever since then i've been a big ATC fan and wanted to own a pair.

I suppose i've already made my mind up but i'll try and audition some first.

Thanks again everyone for your opinions and advice, much appreciated

Cheers Ed

 

[BenLaw]

Hi Ed

The thing to do is think long term - you need to know now what you want to end up with, and work towards it. The SCM7's are gutsy little speakers, but they are quite a low sensitivity (a trade off for being small and sealed). Many amps will drive them, but will come up short getting the best from them.

For these low sensitity speakers, an amplifier will need to powerful enough to bring them to life. If it lacks grunt and dynamics, the speaker will be left sounding lacklustre. The 6xp will drive the SCM7's, but don't expect the resultant sound to be spectacular.

The 685's are a higher sensitivity thanks to their ported cabinet, but their impedance drops to 4ohms in the bass region. Even though this should make them harder to drive than the ATC's, in practice they're actually easier to drive. Whether the 685's bear any close resemblance to your 602's really depends which version you have. If you have 602 S3's, then yes, they'll be similar in many ways, although they're not going to have that big punchy bass and soundstage of the 602's.

Basically, if you want to go for the SCM7's, you'll need to be looking at different amplification, unless you're going to add a power amplifier at a later date, or consider the 8xp instead. Audiolab's 8200A will be a better investment for the SCM7's.

Steadily going through this month's WHF, I was interested to note one of the systems in the 'Network Streaming' feature - p54 if you're interested. The feature is a suitable streaming solution to add to an existing setup. Setup 2 is the 6XP with SCM11s. WHF say, 'our 2010 amplifier of the year, with the ATC speakers, has simply wonderful all-round sound quality.' Patently, if the 6XP can drive 11s, such that it has 'wonderful all-round sound quality', it will happily drive the 7s also (in the opinion of WHF).

FWIW, as I recall for many months (last year?) either the 6xp or its predecessor featured as a combination in the 'Best Buy' section of the mag. So hopefully not everyone will be put off this combo by David's advice

 

[Craig M.]

as you say Ben, not the first time i've seen the mag recommend that combo.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The SCM7's are actually harder to drive.....

I'll stick by my recommendations. Admittedly I tend to play safe most of the time, but at least I've had no one come back to me with any issues regarding overheating amps or amps that cut out. I'm just making sure people are getting the most from their purchases.

 

[BenLaw]

84 dB v 85 dB, big deal. The problem is you don't 'stick by your recommendations'. See my other post for more.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi Rick at Musicraft

I was at Maida Vale studios in about 1992 in studio 4 (i think) and the monitors looked like the SCM300ASL PRO or the equivalents at that time, they were built into the wall, they could of been custom made. When i heard them they brought a lump to me throat, i'd never heard anything as good as those before and i dont think since. Ever since then i've been a big ATC fan and wanted to own a pair.

I suppose i've already made my mind up but i'll try and audition some first.

Thanks again everyone for your opinions and advice, much appreciated

Cheers Ed

Hi Ed

Thanks for your reply.

Nice one and your welcome.

I use SCM100 Pro monitors and these are already reproduce frightening levels of performance

I dread to think what the SCM300 Pro monitors are capable of :bigsmile:

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

84 dB v 85 dB, big deal. The problem is you don't 'stick by your recommendations'. See my other post for more.

Still technically harder to drive, and seeing as the SCM11's are power hungry, that makes the SCM7's more so. Basics.

Whatever I recommend, I'll stick by it. Granted, my recommendations might not be the same for everyone, as everyone's different, everyone's different, and there's no one solution that suits everyone.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Aaaah, didn't see this post.....

Steadily going through this month's WHF, I was interested to note one of the systems in the 'Network Streaming' feature - p54 if you're interested. The feature is a suitable streaming solution to add to an existing setup. Setup 2 is the 6XP with SCM11s. WHF say, 'our 2010 amplifier of the year, with the ATC speakers, has simply wonderful all-round sound quality.' Patently, if the 6XP can drive 11s, such that it has 'wonderful all-round sound quality', it will happily drive the 7s also (in the opinion of WHF).

FWIW, as I recall for many months (last year?) either the 6xp or its predecessor featured as a combination in the 'Best Buy' section of the mag. So hopefully not everyone will be put off this combo by David's advice

As you know, I recommend people listen to everything they are interested in - if it suits them, go for it. I'm just recommending combinations based on my own experiences. I've ran an 8xp (admittedly quite loud) for the duration of an album on the SCM11's, and it got quite hot. Now if someone's going to have a bumper listening session, they could very well run into problems. I would rather play safe and recommend what I know works.

Everyone's got their opinions - and everyone's free to follow the advice of who they like.

I find the attitude towards me whenever i say anything about ATC by a select number of people from another forum unnecessary and tedious.

 

[BenLaw]

As you know, I recommend people listen to everything they are interested in - if it suits them, go for it. I'm just recommending combinations based on my own experiences. I've ran an 8xp (admittedly quite loud) for the duration of an album on the SCM11's, and it got quite hot. Now if someone's going to have a bumper listening session, they could very well run into problems. I would rather play safe and recommend what I know works. Everyone's got their opinions - and everyone's free to follow the advice of who they like. I find the attitude towards me whenever i say anything about ATC by a select number of people from another forum unnecessary and tedious.

It's not 'an attitude towards you', ie nothing personal, I just disagree with your views on ATC, and am entitled to say so. I can't remember if it's this thread or the other one where you brought up SCM7s and Cyrus, but I've said that every time you mention ATC recently it's to say they're difficult to drive. I'm passionate about ATC speakers, making it fairly obvious why I'd be a member of ATC forums, so if someone's putting them down (which you're doing consistently) I'll jump in.

Your last post just isn't the same as the reasons you gave first time. All you're identifying now is a problem of 'running hot' possibly causing problems with a 'bumper listening session'. In your first post you said 'Many amps will drive them, but will come up short getting the best from them.' and 'The 6xp will drive the SCM7's, but don't expect the resultant sound to be spectacular.' and 'Basically, if you want to go for the SCM7's, you'll need to be looking at different amplification'

So now it's long listening at high volumes (more powerful the amp he better, obvious) whereas before it's just not good enough. Consistent?? As I posted on the other thread, the reality here is that ATC speakers, even modestly priced ones, are so good thay can handle big component upgrades. They would be driven fine by the 6xp, an upgrade of amp later would simply improve the situation (as you would hope and expect).

And it seems to me WHF agrees with this - I don't accept the 1dB difference in impedance makes any significant difference to the abilities of the combination. Might be an easier argument just to say you disagree with WHF!

Btw please feel free to respond to my post on the other thread

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'll continue to give the same advice about the pairing I always do. I care about the combinations people are putting together - I don't recommend a product just for the hell of it.

As far as ATC goes, I'm not putting them down, I'm just being realistic about their efficiency in comparison to other speakers, just as I've mentioned other brands need more current/power or whatever.