Wife and Hi-Fi

[Broner]

I don't see the moral progress in that. Dave's joke was as harmless as can be.

By today's standards, most people would agree with you (as indeed they seem to be doing). I suspect most people also felt the same way about racist jokes in the 70s.

Making the analogy is one thing, but whether it holds is entirely a different matter. Ethics isn't something entirely obscure and when it comes morality in the sense that it is the practical reality of proper ethical attitudes, it can actually be argued why change would be better or not. In this case, I fail to see why your type of change would make any ethical difference, as Dave's joke did not address the female sex in any way that could have been seen as degrading or offensive and didn't exploit a stereotype that you could plausibly link to the unequal position of women in society. There doesn't seem to be anything to improve upon.

The trouble is that it is often difficult to discern when something is actually morally problematic and, indeed, it often takes a while to make people see the truth of some things. But just saying[/b] that people make mysogynystic remarks and making analogies to racist jokes, doesn't automatically make one right.

 

[davedotco]

I don't see the moral progress in that. Dave's joke was as harmless as can be.

By today's standards, most people would agree with you (as indeed they seem to be doing). I suspect most people also felt the same way about racist jokes in the 70s.

No. I think you are being most unfair in comparing the two. An awful lot of people, myself included wanted nothing to do with them.

The racist jokes you refer to were just that, meant to be racist, purient in the extreme. The joke I posted was meant to be absurd and ridiculous, if I had considered it sexist I would not have posted it.

 

[professorhat]

But just saying[/b] that people make mysogynystic remarks and making analogies to racist jokes, doesn't automatically make one right.

No, indeed. Obviously all my comments are my opinion on the matter - that should really go without saying, but it's amazing how often you have to state this on the internet. However, I think if we lived in a society that genuinely considered women as equals, there would be no issue with the joke. This is why there is no issue in making fun about white men in this country - they don't have to fear the underlying current of menace that might be involved with a joke (whether that menace be real or imagined is in many ways irrelevant).

But until that point is reached, I think jokes involving domestic abuse (of either sex) really need to be (a) funny and (b) challenging in terms of people's opinions on the matter - i.e. holding their potentially misogynistic views up to a mirror for them to see and reflect upon. In this respect, that joke failed on both counts for me and this is why, as I originally stated, in 30 years time I would hope jokes like that are generally not tolerated in society.

 

[davedotco]

Maybe it's the weather that is making you all so fractious. :?

I'm guessing male period.

Getting ready for a night out at Blitz, circa 1980.

How did you get that photo.......... :doh:

 

[davedotco]

But just saying[/b] that people make mysogynystic remarks and making analogies to racist jokes, doesn't automatically make one right.

No, indeed. Obviously all my comments are my opinion on the matter - that should really go without saying, but it's amazing how often you have to state this on the internet. However, I think if we lived in a society that genuinely considered women as equals, there would be no issue with the joke. This is why there is no issue in making fun about white men in this country - they don't have to fear the underlying current of menace that might be involved with a joke (whether that menace be real or imagined is in many ways irrelevant).

But until that point is reached, I think jokes involving domestic abuse (of either sex) really need to be (a) funny and (b) challenging in terms of people's opinions on the matter - i.e. holding their potentially misogynistic views up to a mirror for them to see and reflect upon. In this respect, that joke failed on both counts for me and this is why, as I originally stated, in 30 years time I would hope jokes like that are generally not tolerated in society.

That is interesting and somewhat pessimistic, by implication you do not think that women will be treated as equals in 30 years time.

Interestingly I considered the joke ok, even by your standards, because it was funny (I thought so, as do others) and by way of it's patent absurdity, completely non threatening.

I guess that is where we differ.

 

[Broner]

But just saying[/b] that people make mysogynystic remarks and making analogies to racist jokes, doesn't automatically make one right.

No, indeed. Obviously all my comments are my opinion on the matter - that should really go without saying, but it's amazing how often you have to state this on the internet. However, I think if we lived in a society that genuinely considered women as equals, there would be no issue with the joke. This is why there is no issue in making fun about white men in this country - they don't have to fear the underlying current of menace that might be involved with a joke (whether that menace be real or imagined is in many ways irrelevant).

But until that point is reached, I think jokes involving domestic abuse (of either sex) really need to be (a) funny and (b) challenging in terms of people's opinions on the matter - i.e. holding their potentially misogynistic views up to a mirror for them to see and reflect upon. In this respect, that joke failed on both counts for me and this is why, as I originally stated, in 30 years time I would hope jokes like that are generally not tolerated in society.

I generally agree with your first paragraph, though I don't see the complaints over such a joke as proof that there still is a problem with gender inequality. It could just be a case of moral misunderstanding.

I sort of get what you're saying in the second paragraph (jokes need to have some sort of substance in order for them to be able to cross a certain line. I don't agree with that, but it's an interesting view nonetheless), but there is still the underlying assumption that Dave's joke already is ethically problematic and that remains unsubstantiated.

Please note though that I don't feel that we should take this much further. People have said what they felt, and I for one felt the need to express my opinion on the matter, as respectfully as I possibly can. :cheers:

 

[professorhat]

That is interesting and somewhat pessimistic, by implication you do not think that women will be treated as equals in 30 years time.

Call it pessimism if you will, but I would say I'm 100% positive that women won't be treated as equals in 30 years time. We're gradually getting there on many fronts, but I think it will be a long time before genuinely any question of them not being treated as equals is met with astonished looks.

What I do hope for is that in 30 years time, everyone will have realised how misogynostic society today is and will be taking further steps to move towards equality. To be clear, I'm not accusing anyone of doing this on purpose - it's just how society is at the moment. Just take a look at how women are used in advertisements / music videos / TV shows etc. etc. to see what I mean. We've come a long way since the 70s, but there's still a long way to go.

Anyway, enough has been said on this subject by me now, so I'll bow out, much to many people's relief I'm sure

 

[professorhat]

Please note though that I don't feel that we should take this much further. People have said what they felt, and I for one felt the need to express my opinion on the matter, as respectfully as I possibly can. :cheers:

Agreed

:cheers:

 

[Andrew17321]

With a few notable exceptions, most of the contributors to this thread have referred to “My wife”. I would have thought that ownership of another person was not PC these days.

Andrew

 

[spiny norman]

purient

That word may have meant something back in the day when you were a professional in this industry, hanging out with Mick and Keef, selling sigmund Freud his first turntable, getting badmouthed by Sinatra for excessive namedropping, but these days it doesn't seem to exist (as I was saying to John Lennon only the other day).

 

[Anderson]

Of FFS you guys. I come here to let off some steam, because of all the drama I'm going to have to vent at the wife.

BRB pushing my wife down the stairs.

 

[MajorFubar]

I think huge steps have been made to redress male-female inequality in scenarios where females were treated less favourably and had lesss opportunities, though I agree there's still lots to do. But I feel there has been pretty-much no progress where the opposite is true. Like the dearth of male teachers in primary schools being just one obvious example. And it's absolutely entrenched. In fact I can name two mothers I know of, both have primary-school girls, and I've overheard them both say that if their girls ever end up in a class in primary school with a male form-teacher they would ask the school to move their children to a different class. That's absolutely bloody disgusting and if the situation were reversed it would be a national outrage.

 

[busb]

Gosh, I really have missed so much here recently!

Hi Dave - keep up the good work. I'm going to press for you to be canonised (unless I go first). Things ARE improving; only one poster used the term "THE wife" & that was with a degree of irony. There is only one thing worse than sexism, racism, ageism etc & that's political correctness because it's so humourless & prescriptive.

 

[Glacialpath]

Oh my universe its happend again. I can't leave you lot alone for one minute. So what if a Wife thread has happened before, don't bother posting if you posted on the last 10 wife threads. Leave it to the new people.

I loved Dave's Joke. Yeah it's extreamly harsh on the women in it but I stopped being offended when the pucnhline came. I thought, hang on this ain't like Dave, then I thought well I don't know Dave, only what I've read in this forum. Admitedly I haven't found you the warmest bloke Dave with some or your responces to people but that's ok by me, your just some words on a screen and entitled to your professional opinion.

Would be nice though if we all grew some (you know what to insert there) and stop being so sensitive. I'm aware we are all different. Have different ideas and thougts on things. I actually found this thread quite nice and am glad it was posted. I only got married in March but the fact MY wife is a musician too means she is loving the great sound we get from our system. No she's not as into it as I am.

This forum might as well be called We Hate Folk as I read so much hate on here and silly comments. What's worse is any forum you go on pretty much will be full of the same rubbish. "I know better than you" "You Know jack" "you're not professional" "they don't do anything but exist" "you upset me" "This thread is rubbish" well you've all read these threads so you know what I'm talking about.

I thought I could come on here and get some help and hopefully help some people with my experience but seeing as we are all self appointed experts (some of you of course are) half the time I wonder why I bother posting on here or joining in. Because as soon as someone starts a thread (my 2 so far are clean and am greatful to the guys who have contributed to them with open minds) someone having a bad life has to dum it down, put the OP off ever coming back and generally making it an unpleasent place to be.

I ain't special. I know I know very little compared to most. I would never EDITED on anyones thread regardless of how silly the question might be or the comment/opinion.

Chill guys it's like being back at school.

 

[Vladimir]

Of FFS you guys. I come here to let off some steam, because of all the drama I'm going to have to vent at the wife.

BRB pushing my wife down the stairs.

She fell. Get your story straight.

 

[sublime]

so many up tight people here - I have to admit I will laugh at anything and everything. It's the only way to live.

 

[busb]

Oh my universe its happend again. I can't leave you lot alone for one minute. So what if a Wife thread has happened before, don't bother posting if you posted on the last 10 wife threads. Leave it to the new people.

I loved Dave's Joke. Yeah it's extreamly harsh on the women in it but I stopped being offended when the pucnhline came. I thought, hang on this ain't like Dave, then I thought well I don't know Dave, only what I've read in this forum. Admitedly I haven't found you the warmest bloke Dave with some or your responces to people but that's ok by me, your just some words on a screen and entitled to your professional opinion.

Would be nice though if we all grew some (you know what to insert there) and stop being so sensitive. I'm aware we are all different. Have different ideas and thougts on things. I actually found this thread quite nice and am glad it was posted. I only got married in March but the fact MY wife is a musician too means she is loving the great sound we get from our system. No she's not as into it as I am.

This forum might as well be called We Hate Folk as I read so much hate on here and silly comments. What's worse is any forum you go on pretty much will be full of the same rubbish. "I know better than you" "You Know jack" "you're not professional" "they don't do anything but exist" "you upset me" "This thread is rubbish" well you've all read these threads so you know what I'm talking about.

I thought I could come on here and get some help and hopefully help some people with my experience but seeing as we are all self appointed experts (some of you of course are) half the time I wonder why I bother posting on here or joining in. Because as soon as someone starts a thread (my 2 so far are clean and am greatful to the guys who have contributed to them with open minds) someone having a bad life has to dum it down, put the OP off ever coming back and generally making it an unpleasent place to be.

I ain't special. I know I know very little compared to most. I would never EDITED on anyones thread regardless of how silly the question might be or the comment/opinion.

Chill guys it's like being back at school.

You obviously fail to understand just how important some of the posters on this forum are! A worryingly large amount of their lives revolve around this sub-universe - to the extent that the concept of ignoring certain threads is just beyond their intellectual capability. It's as if they feel that every thread should be interesting to them personally. Forums are like revolving doors in that they attract new members discussing old topics. If the older members get bored with the repetition - it could be a sure sign they should get out more!

There are also some great people here I should add. I didn't particularly like one poster here. I then met him at a WHF event where I warmed to him although we often disagree. The problem with web-based interaction is that it's so impersonal & people can write stuff they would never say face to face (or would want to).

 

[steve4232]

"Anyway, enough has been said on this subject by me now, so I'll bow out, much to many people's relief I'm sure"

Yes, mine especially!

 

[Vladimir]

 

[MrReaper182]

If the wife starts moaning about your hifi point out that her 46 pairs of shoes, 14 handbags and half a grand worth of perfume is a bigger waste of money.

When me and my girlfriend get married I will not be able to do that as I own more shoes than her, own more clothes than her, spend lots of money getting my hair coloured and styled every month and I own more more hair products than she does.

 

[MrReaper182]

I think the problem here chaps, is that there are very few women on this forum to defend our corner when things like this crop up, but that doesn't mean we don't exist :wave:

Here's a shocking stat for you - half of the WHF review staff are female. Blimey Nora, etc etc...

And just for the record... my husband couldn't give two hoots about hi-fi

I wish their were more woman on this forum as I find it easier to talk to woman (or at lest I do in the real world).

 

[Anderson]

Um, if anyone comes asking about my whereabouts last night I was here the whole time.

kthanxbye

 

[fr0g]

Darn, missed this one.

I shared the same, funny joke that Dave posted recently.

The PC brigade are definitely getting a little OTT imo.

On another note, did you know, that the average male thinks about sex every tits seconds? (Begins with t and rhymes with bits)

 

[robg1976]

I disagree she does enjoy not to extent I do but she does like to upgrade and test new kit

 

[Webern]

Frau Webern refers to my speakers as "the coffins" so you get the general idea what she thinks about hifi! She does love the sound though, and she accompanies me on my infrequent visits to the hifi store. Last time, I had three sets of speakers in the lounge at the same time for ten days, while we made up our minds which ones to take. She will offer opinions as to which sound better, but at the end of the day she isn't really that interested in the subtle differences.

I think there was a moment a few years ago when she was playing Shostakovich 11 at a good volume, and the sheer impact of the orchestra was very impressive, that she started to understand the dedication to hifi. I like having her with me if I'm in a hifi shop, because she tends to see through any sales patter or nonsense from the assistant.