Why use a music streamer?

[gasolin]

What is the point,advantage of having a streamer if you just can use your pc, open the tidal,spotify app and listen to music.

If you have a bluetooth reciver,unit for a few bucks you can easily use it to stream wireless from a phone or tablet.

 

[davedotco]

I kind of see where you are coming from, hi-fi component streamers are absurdly expensive for what they are and most have far more functionality than many users will ever need.

That said, using a computer or handheld to stream via Airplay or Bluetooth is not ideal, dropouts and network issues are commonplace and of course in many cases the source device can not be used for anything else when music is streaming.

Personally I would look for a simple, inexpensive solution that can be used hard wired and perhaps hidden away. Depending on your needs I am thinking of the CCA or Yamaha WXAD 10 or similar. If you focus on what you actually need these devices need not be expensive.

 

[gasolin]

Personally i don't have dropouts im not running my pc wireless except for my xbox controller and that works very good

 

[insider9]

Streamer

Pros:
Low powered
No noise
Small and usually good looking
Easy to use remotely
No drain on your tablet/smartphone like Bluetooth or Upnp device
Always ready
Budget offerings give better value for money
Sound quality is constant
Many don't require an external DAC

Cons:
Restricted functionality
Upgrades usually mean getting a different device or external DAC

PC

Pros:
Lots of software available
Flexible upgrades (can add RAM, another SSD etc.)
Can be used for other tasks

Cons:
Big
Noisy
Most decent software is paid for
Most software lacks remote solutions
Not always available (system updates)
Most are not optimised for audio playback with often subpar sound quality
Almost always requires and external DAC

Unless it's an audio PC then all above cons are taken care of at a cost and cost far higher than many streamers.

There are solutions in between which with good implementation can mitigate cons and build on strengths. Best I found to date is Roon. Which makes the whole architecture flexible.

 

[CnoEvil]

Here is an old thread - but still some good points made;

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/streamers-what-point

 

[cheeseboy]

Streamer

Pros: Low powered No noise Small and usually good looking Easy to use remotely No drain on your tablet/smartphone like Bluetooth or Upnp device Always ready Budget offerings give better value for money Sound quality is constant Many don't require an external DAC

Cons: Restricted functionality Upgrades usually mean getting a different device or external DAC

PC

Pros: Lots of software available Flexible upgrades (can add RAM, another SSD etc.) Can be used for other tasks

Cons: Big Noisy Most decent software is paid for Most software lacks remote solutions Not always available (system updates) Most are not optimised for audio playback with often subpar sound quality Almost always requires and external DAC

Unless it's an audio PC then all above cons are taken care of at a cost and cost far higher than many streamers.

There are solutions in between which with good implementation can mitigate cons and build on strengths. Best I found to date is Roon. Which makes the whole architecture flexible.

sorry, have to disagree, that list is pretty much made up out of nothing.

All music streamers are computers In order to do what they do. Lets not confuse things by saying that a streamer isn't a computer it is. It's all about implementation. So called "audio pc's" are a lot of the time are just off the shelf parts with a big markup. There's plenty of audio based software such as daphile, volumio (all have excellent remote support) etc that are just as good, if not better supported than dedicated audio streamers as some manufacturers have a habit of just dropping models at whim, whereas comminuty based solutions keep going. The whole misnomer of a pc being and noisy is also false. Why would one buy a big noisy pc to play music? Something like this would be golden - http://www.asrock.com/microsite/Beebox/index.html - the N3000 model is completely fanless (silent) and just requires a usb dac if you don't want to use the onboard. Either that or you can grab one of many rasperry pi's with excellent dacs already pre assembled with rune audio/volumio etc already to go out of the box. Either that or grab yourself a windows 10 tablet and a usb dac and you instantly have a touch screen interface for whatever music software you want to run which will be silent.

 

[cheeseboy]

What is the point,advantage of having a streamer if you just can use your pc, open the tidal,spotify app and listen to music.

If you have a bluetooth reciver,unit for a few bucks you can easily use it to stream wireless from a phone or tablet.

people like to spend money, especially in the hifi world.

As for the reasons, varies from person to person, but then again people are able to convince themselves of all sorts of things so who the hell knows

 

[insider9]

sorry, have to disagree, that list is pretty much made up out of nothing.

What are you disagreeing about?

Are you saying I can run Minecraft on a streamer? Or are you saying Chromecast Audio can do Airplay? Or that Windows doesn't want to do updates at most annoying of times?

All music streamers are computers In order to do what they do. Lets not confuse things by saying that a streamer isn't a computer it is. It's all about implementation.

And where did I say streamers isn't a computer? I see what you call a PC and what I would class as one are completely different devices. NUC is no better than a streamer when it comes to upgrade potential.

There's plenty of audio based software such as daphile, volumio (all have excellent remote support) etc that are just as good, if not better supported than dedicated audio streamers as some manufacturers have a habit of just dropping models at whim, whereas comminuty based solutions keep going.

Sure and I quite agree but which one is the most popular player for Windows?

The whole misnomer of a pc being and noisy is also false. Why would one buy a big noisy pc to play music?

I think you will find that most people will use whatever PC they have to play music.

Something like this would be golden - http://www.asrock.com/microsite/Beebox/index.html - the N3000 model is completely fanless (silent) and just requires a usb dac if you don't want to use the onboard. Either that or you can grab one of many rasperry pi's with excellent dacs already pre assembled with rune audio/volumio etc already to go out of the box.

You can indeed but that the whole point I was making. The minute you want to upgrade you're replacing the whole unit no different to a streamer. If you use what is a traditional PC you can change each component. Also what you're suggesting is severely underpowered should you want DSD and DSP at the same time. And in such a case you'd probably not use it as a PC and just as a stremer due to very limiting hardware.

So called "audio pc's" are a lot of the time are just off the shelf parts with a big markup.

Sure if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[insider9]

people like to spend money, especially in the hifi world.

Yes and you can also do this by buying inadequate solutions and changing them all the time. It's important to actually know what you want to achieve and where the priorities lie. There's many ways but don't think the results will always be the same. Digital can and does go wrong.

 

[andyjm]

Putting all the guff to one side, a streamer is a format converter with some ability to interface and index a file system. As has been pointed out above, even the lowest spec RasPi will do this without raising a sweat, and can be yours for £27 or there abouts.

There is some excellent open source software available, and I believe a number of high quality piggy back audio boards if you don't want to use a separate DAC.

No reason for a streamer to cost more than £100 unless it has a fancy expensive case, or fancy expensive marketing.

 

[MajorFubar]

PC...Cons: Big

Noisy

Has this this post been time-warped from 1999 *biggrin*

Modern all in one PCs and laptops are pretty-much silent unless you're hammering the processor with a strenuous task like realtime rendering of HD graphics at 60fps. Playing music isn't strenuous. Who but gamers with home-built PCs have bulky, noisy desktop tower units these days?

Anyhow, streaming from a computer is so five years ago, darling. I stream pretty much everything from my phone, lossless via Airplay.*drinks*

 

[cheeseboy]

What are you disagreeing about?

apologies, I should have been more specific. I was disagreeing with your pc list.

And where did I say streamers isn't a computer? I see what you call a PC and what I would class as one are completely different devices. NUC is no better than a streamer when it comes to upgrade potential.

Depends on what you want to upgrade. Most NUC's you can upgrade cpu, ram, hard drive. What more do you need to upgrade?

Sure and I quite agree but which one is the most popular player for Windows?

who said anything about windows? Volumio, daphile etc all run linux backend - they are complete packages designed to do one thing - play music. As for the most popular player for windows, no idea, does it matter? I'm sure it's more "popular" to listen to music purely on a phone

I think you will find that most people will use whatever PC they have to play music.

totally agree, but doesn't mean you can use that as a con when there are many alternatives available

You can indeed but that the whole point I was making. The minute you want to upgrade you're replacing the whole unit no different to a streamer.

what would you be looking to upgrade though? Memory and drive space are all upgradeable on that particular model I linked to. Other models allow you upgrade the cpu.

If you use what is a traditional PC you can change each component. Also what you're suggesting is severely underpowered should you want DSD and DSP at the same time. And in such a case you'd probably not use it as a PC and just as a stremer due to very limiting hardware.

hang on, where did dsp suddenly come in to it? Genuine question, are there any dedicated music streamers with build in dsp?

As for DSD playback, should be fine, I use a similar powered CPU and that does DSD fine. Most dedicated music streamers will have a lesser powered cpu in it than that one.

Sure if you don't know what you're doing.

agreed, but I personally object to the mark up level playing on what people don't know, that goes for life as well. here is an exmaple:

http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/nimitra-computer-audio-server/ - cost to you $1395

cost for the motherboard they are using - https://www.logicsupply.com/nl-nl/pd10bi/?cpsrc="nl_shop&agid=mobo&kw=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6tzTs_2x2QIVGZSyCh3JrQivEAYYASABEgLgcfD_BwE" - approx $169

cost for the memory they are using - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-Non-ECC-SODIMM-204-Pin-Memory/dp/B00CQ35GYE - approx $46

cost for the hard drive - doesn't even specify the size, but lets be generous and give it 128gig - https://www.amazon.co.uk/ADATA-Superior-Ultrabooks-Notebooks-ASX8000NP-128GM-C/dp/B01MFH0I0S/ref=sr_1_sc_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1519043705&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=mPCIe+SSD+128gb - approx $100

case - I think this is the newer version - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inter-Tech-ITX-E-i7-W60-Black-88881238-Case-60-W/dp/B018J4E80Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519043968&sr=8-1&keywords=Inter-Tech+E-W60 - approx $98

then they just install windows on it and lob jriver on it and suddenly it's "an audiophile music server"... lol.

So, rough cost say $450 dollars, and they are charging almost 3x that. Yes, I know about overheads, yes I know about support etc, but to me, that's just taking the pee because they stick the word audiophile on it.

I've seen some suppliers that do similar but have very good prices, and hats off to them.

 

[Sliced Bread]

The remote control

i have two options at home:

iPad -> Mojo -> Amp

iphone app -> tidal connect built into the Amp

The former sounds marginally better, but it’s such a faff to keep getting up and down to change the tracks so 90% of the time I end up using Tidal Connect straight out of the amp.

I can certainly see why many would prefer a streamer.

 

[Sliced Bread]

With the above said, I would love to read some reports comparing af few Manufacurers Streamer vs those same manufacurers external DACs into a tablet / PC.

It'll be interesting to see where the best performance per pound sits.

 

[cheeseboy]

As has been pointed out above, even the lowest spec RasPi will do this without raising a sweat, and can be yours for £27 or there abouts.

There is some excellent open source software available, and I believe a number of high quality piggy back audio boards if you don't want to use a separate DAC.

The Pi Zero W is only a tenner, the Pi Zero is only a fiver, but by the time you've bought an Ethernet or WiFi dongle for it you may as well just buy the W.

My original Pi Zero, Pimoroni pHAT DAC, adapters and case cost me just under thirty notes at the ti

Though the Pi Zero and pHAT DAC require soldering of the GPIO headers. So if soldering isn't your thing, then a Zero WH or Pi 3 and DAC from Justboom, HiFiBerry IQaudIO et al will make it plug and play..

hows the sounds with the pHAT Dac? I've been sorely tempted for a while to knock up something so small with the zero

 

[daveh75]

As has been pointed out above, even the lowest spec RasPi will do this without raising a sweat, and can be yours for £27 or there abouts.

There is some excellent open source software available, and I believe a number of high quality piggy back audio boards if you don't want to use a separate DAC.

The Pi Zero W is only a tenner, the Pi Zero is only a fiver, but by the time you've bought an Ethernet or WiFi dongle for it you may as well just buy the W.

My original Pi Zero, Pimoroni pHAT DAC, adapters and case cost me just under thirty notes at the time

Though the Pi Zero, Zero W and pHAT DAC all require soldering of the GPIO headers. So if soldering isn't your thing, then a Zero WH or Pi 3 and DAC from Justboom, HiFiBerry IQaudIO et al will make it plug and play..

 

[cheeseboy]

https://www.justboom.co/product-category/kits/

nice selection of plug and go pi based streamer solutions if anybody was wanting to try one, but didn't fancy the diy aspect.

 

[tino]

I usually find that beyond the initial setup, streamers are usually much less hassle than the equivalent PC or phone based music app to maintain and operate. They usually have bomb proof reliability and don't mind when you switch the power off, they boot up in seconds, don't require updates every other day etc. etc. Good steamers can be cheap ... I use Squeezeboxes, modified Roomplayers, Yamaha WXAD10 and all are cheap, reliable, versatile and great sounding.

 

[JamesMellor]

I use a mac mini £349, I know they went up after brexit, USB out Optical out , itunes streams to 4 different devices from 2 different makes all over the house all at once, local amps remotes control skip repeat volume play/pause etc, remote app can control every speaker/amp and adjust volume on each, one little remote for £15 does play/pause skip repeat and volume. Eye connect running on the mac means everything can see the hdd as a pnp device if I want to use a device on its own.

Why buy a steamer ?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Some of us...actually don't really like computers and like them even less as a medium for listening to music.

 

[insider9]

I use a mac mini £349, I know they went up after brexit, USB out Optical out , itunes streams to 4 different devices from 2 different makes all over the house all at once, local amps remotes control  skip repeat volume play/pause etc, remote app can control every speaker/amp and adjust volume on each, one little remote for £15 does play/pause skip repeat and volume. Eye connect running on the mac means everything can see the hdd as a pnp device if I want to use a device on its own.

Why buy a steamer ?

 

Have you ever heard of Audirvana?

 

[insider9]

PC...Cons: Big

Noisy

Has this this post been time-warped from 1999 *biggrin*

Modern all in one PCs and laptops are pretty-much silent unless you're hammering the processor with a strenuous task like realtime rendering of HD graphics at 60fps. Playing music isn't strenuous. Who but gamers with home-built PCs have bulky, noisy desktop tower units these days?

Anyhow, streaming from a computer is so five years ago, darling. I stream pretty much everything from my phone, lossless via Airplay.*drinks*

I probably should've mentioned that anything for playback that produces any noise I class as noisy. My PC is near silent and I spent a silly amount of money making it such that even at full pelt (over clocked) it still remains very quiet. But it annoys me that it makes any noise at all

Problems with silent designs are that they often sacrifice performance. And if not then they cost a lot.

You're quite right you don't need a lot of processing power unless you decide to do DSD, DSP, up sampling etc. These things can strain most machines if taken to extreme. And if you're not doing any of it then a steamer might be more convenient.

 

[Gray]

Some of us...actually don't really like computers and like them even less as a medium for listening to music.

Sums me up. I had never owned a PC before 2014....but wanted to rip my CD collection, so thought I might as well 'kill two birds' and bought a laptop. Played the music with that for a while, via an external DAC, but soon went for a Pi, using the same DAC.

 

[cheeseboy]

I probably should've mentioned that anything for playback that produces any noise I class as noisy. My PC is near silent and I spent a silly amount of money making it such that even at full pelt (over clocked) it still remains very quiet. But it annoys me that it makes any noise at all

if you haven't already have a look here - http://www.streacom.com/products/chassis/ - Look at the ones that are tagged as fanles. Then add one of the silent power supplies - http://www.streacom.com/products/power/ and you've gone totally silent. No need to sacrifice on performance.

If anybody is looking to not faff around, I can recommend these http://www.hystou.com/products/fanless-mini-pc/intel-kaby-lake-mini-pc/c-90/ - fully silent from the get go and given they even do i7's, which is more than overkill for all things audio playback, performance should never be an issue.

 

[drummerman]

Chromecast Audio. No faff, well hardly any, instantly ready, better sq than bt and cheap.

What's not to like?