What turntable for the Leema?

[ifor]

I don’t know the prices, but you can start with the IQ-1 and upgrade to 2 or 3 by changing the stylus. I think, but am not certain, you can also ‘downgrade’ by fitting a G1042 stylus.

There’s a review at TNT. http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/audionote_iq3_e.html

Pretty sure looking at them they are modified Goldrings. AN like many manufacturers don't make their own cartridges. So unless they are considered cheap I would forget them.

If you're going to buy a cartridge get them from a reknown cartridge manufacturer.

Besides, just try finding one to buy....

Yes, of course we could dismiss them and ignore how highly thought of they are just because Al has not come across them! I’m fairly sure they are easily sourced from, surprise surprise, Audio Note. They are indeed based on a Goldring body.

 

[ifor]

... some may find parts, if not all, of these blog posts interesting. https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/blog/all-about-the-phono-preamp.html

https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/blog/MC-mobile-phone-interference.html

 

[Al ears]

I don’t know the prices, but you can start with the IQ-1 and upgrade to 2 or 3 by changing the stylus. I think, but am not certain, you can also ‘downgrade’ by fitting a G1042 stylus.

There’s a review at TNT. http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/audionote_iq3_e.html

Pretty sure looking at them they are modified Goldrings. AN like many manufacturers don't make their own cartridges. So unless they are considered cheap I would forget them.

If you're going to buy a cartridge get them from a reknown cartridge manufacturer.

Besides, just try finding one to buy....

Yes, of course we could dismiss them and ignore how highly thought of they are just because Al has not come across them! I’m fairly sure they are easily sourced from, surprise surprise, Audio Note. They are indeed based on a Goldring body.

Well I had a look and if I wanted one tomorrow..... for £680 be my guest.

The IQ2 has been around since 1998, overpriced but available..

Best stick to Graham Slee promos...

I am sure AN like Roksan are quite good at selling rebadged Cartridges but if you can find the readily available on the high street then that's just fine if you don't mind the added markup.

 

[ifor]

I am sure AN like Roksan are quite good at selling rebadged Cartridges but if you can find the readily available on the high street then that's just fine if you don't mind the added markup.

Collaboration between companies is not unusual and is certainly not a reason to dismiss a product out of hand. It’s rather different from rebadging, but hey ho Al doesn’t like the look of it.

 

[Al ears]

I am sure AN like Roksan are quite good at selling rebadged Cartridges but if you can find the readily available on the high street then that's just fine if you don't mind the added markup.

Collaboration between companies is not unusual and is certainly not a reason to dismiss a product out of hand. It’s rather different from rebadging, but hey ho Al doesn’t like the look of it.

Never seen one, however doesn't like the price of it is more to the point and I am sure it's out of the OPs budget so not really helpful I feel.

 

[Al ears]

I am sure AN like Roksan are quite good at selling rebadged Cartridges but if you can find the readily available on the high street then that's just fine if you don't mind the added markup.

Collaboration between companies is not unusual and is certainly not a reason to dismiss a product out of hand. It’s rather different from rebadging, but hey ho Al doesn’t like the look of it.

Pretty sure it will not be just me. Never seen one, however doesn't like the price of it is more to the point.

 

[alchemist 1]

Okay I've decided. I've now narrowed it down to two tables. This is because of looks and sound, both should offer the required improvement over the Xpression 1.

Pro-ject Classic SB Super Pack, with the Ortofon Quintet Red MC cart.

ClearAudio Concept MC package.

However, this is where my logic stops: I've never ventured into the moving coil field. Can you please advise on the pros and cons of MCs? I know, from reading on this forum the basic rule of thumb is MCs are best above £300.

The Classic has the retro looks of old Thorens but with the latest technology. The ClearAudio looks quite quirky, which also appeals to me. I need a table that'll blow my current one away, wothout all the faffing about. I love the vinyl playback, but can't be doing with upgrading arms, motors, weights blah blah blah...

Sorry, didn't see this post - this forum is rubbish with regards to keeping track of threads.

MM vs MC. This is like active vs passive, valve vs SS, etc etc. Everyone will have their preferences.

The main drawback with Moving Coil, other than the fact they're usually more expensive, is that the whole cartridge is one piece - there's no option to change the stylus. Some places might rebuild/replace the stylus tip for you, but I have no experience of how well this works or how it compares to just buying a new cart. Moving Coil IS better - when it is done properly. A good moving coil cart will require better electronics to make the most of what it is capable of, which usualy means a bit more money. Your Leema is fine for the decks you're looking at, as I've used it before with the likes of Michell decks like the Gyro. Moving Coil sounds clearer - probably the sort of difference some describe when describing the difference between passive and active speakers. Moving Magnet can sound warm and fuzzy in comparison to MC, lacking that space and clarity that MC generally provides. Don't get me wrong, MC can still have a nice warmth to it, but in a way that doesn't fuzzy things up. As I'm typing, I'm listening to an Audio Technica AT-33sa - not cheap at £679 - but I'm listening to a soundstage and three dimensional detail that I'm not familiar with on the CD version of the album (Peace Orchestra's self titled album). This is on a Technics SL1200G through a Hegel Rost and (just) a pair of £1,000 Amphion Argon 1 speakers.

Moving Magnet is generally cheaper, and allows you to upgrade your stylus, and even move up the range when doing so, if you wish. Whilst the accompanying MM phono stage will still be important, it doesn't necessarily need to be as good as the MC one would be, but again, your Leema will be fine for whichever one you're looking at. There are some great MM carts around, but when you're talking high quality decks, MC carts really do take things up a level. Whilst I wouldn't necessarily go as far to say ignore MC carts, I would certainly recommend to avoid entry level ones - maybe £150-200 you'd be better off with a good Moving Magnet. As it has a user replceable stylus which is nice and easy, it's cheaper to do so if you have a little "accident".

As I've mentioned before, the MM cart that comes with the Clearaudio Concept sounds more like a Moving Coil cart to me - the whole thing just sounded clearer than the other decks it was compared to. The nearest any deck could get to it was the Project 2 Xperience SB, but it just couldn't match the tiny delicate details like gentle cymbal work - the other decks sounded like they were exaggerating the HF, 'smearing' I suppose you could say, losing that delicacy.

At this sort of price point PP, you won't be messing about with upgrades. Most decks at this price point nowadays are designed as a plug and play type solution (particularly the Concept), although one or two will allow some upgrades/tweaks if you every decided to go that route. Even just messing about with turntable mats can bring about quite a difference!

At the end of the day though, it's about getting out there and listening to some though, as only you can make the decision on just how good the decks you're looking at actually are, and whether they're worthy successors to your Project.

Every now and again I get a feeling I'd like to sell all my vinyl and just stick to digital - no faff. But then I sit down and listen to some well produced vinyl and it just sounds so good, I can't bring myself to do it - most of the time it seems to have something that digital just doesn't have (no quips about 'snap, crackle, and pop' please!). When I haven't listened to an album on vinyl for some time, or sometimes for the first time, you always hear something that sounds different, just little things. You know the CD should be technically better, but the vinyl just sounds "right". Anyway, long story short, I don't think I can bring myself to sell any of it, despite the overall figure that Discogs says my collection is worth!

David a great article, just an observation on your web site.

I think you need to check the 1200G price tag [ unless your doing a special new year promotion*preved*]

 

[ifor]

As I said in my first post, I don’t know the prices, and am not sure where you got £680 from. Which is it for, the 1, 2 or 3?

 

[plastic penguin]

I suppose the main concern about the Concept table is it has moved - from what you said - away from traditional vinyl sound.

When I had the ClearAudio Classic Wood fitted to the Pro-ject, I had the entry-level Arcam amp at the time. So the extra detail and space it created balanced out the A65's smooth presentation without losing that lovely organic sound associated with vinyl.

Although the Tucana is beautifully balanced, the insight is awesome, and the concern is pushing the the limits of such an amp. A dem (home test) will be essential to determine the sound I'm after.

I will re-arrange a dem for the two over the next couple of weeks.

Cheers.

 

[davidf]

David a great article, just an observation on your web site.

I think you need to check the 1200G price tag [ unless your doing a special new year promotion*preved*]

Haha, that’s what you get for “duplicating” a page, not updating every little bit you’re supposed to, and not properly proof reading it! Of course, the more eagle eyed would’ve noticed that the rear pic is a GR, and only one of the other pics is actually a G...

I’ll update in the morning when I get in (I can’t update via tablet). If Amazon wouldn’t have let me down before Christmas, I’d have had a mini PC at home right now to update...

 

[Al ears]

As I said in my first post, I don’t know the prices, and am not sure where you got £680 from. Which is it for, the 1, 2 or 3?

Here,

http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/audionote_iq3_e.html

I assume this is their souped up 1042

The fact they don't even display prices on their own website certainly makes purchasing or even referencing extremely difficult which is why I steer clear of suggesting hard to come by cartridges that I know nothing about. It only adds more confusion to the OP.

 

[chebby]

Any danger of someone buying a turntable anytime soon?

 

[Al ears]

Any danger of someone buying a turntable anytime soon?

Nah! Then we would have nothing to make decisions about. Or spend other people's money...

..

 

[plastic penguin]

The agony will be over soon. Then, of course, I'll concentrate on the turntable. *i-m_so_happy*

On a serious note, weekend after next I'll arrange a dem of the two decks, then it'll be down to which cartrisge: If it's the Pro-ject Classic, I'll probably go with Goldring G1042. Or if it's a ClearAudio concept I'll probably look at a better cart from the same stable: Somthing like the Artist MM.

 

[Al ears]

The agony will be over soon. Then, of course, I'll concentrate on the turntable. *i-m_so_happy*

On a serious note, weekend after next I'll arrange a dem of the two decks, then it'll be down to which cartrisge: If it's the Pro-ject Classic, I'll probably go with Goldring G1042. Or if it's a ClearAudio concept I'll probably look at a better cart from the same stable: Somthing like the Artist MM.

Enjoy the audition you're luckier than most in being able to do so.

I can see where you're thoughts lie but the 1042 could be tried on both decks and, if at all possible, should.

 

[plastic penguin]

The agony will be over soon. Then, of course, I'll concentrate on the turntable. *i-m_so_happy*

On a serious note, weekend after next I'll arrange a dem of the two decks, then it'll be down to which cartrisge: If it's the Pro-ject Classic, I'll probably go with Goldring G1042. Or if it's a ClearAudio concept I'll probably look at a better cart from the same stable: Somthing like the Artist MM.

Enjoy the audition you're luckier than most in being able to do so.

I can see where you're thoughts lie but the 1042 could be tried on both decks and, if at all possible, should.

Well, I've had the Xpression since 2006, it's about time it was put out to grass. And because it has seen Arcam A65, Pulse and now the Tucana, the set-up deserves something more modern.

 

[Al ears]

The agony will be over soon. Then, of course, I'll concentrate on the turntable. *i-m_so_happy*

On a serious note, weekend after next I'll arrange a dem of the two decks, then it'll be down to which cartrisge: If it's the Pro-ject Classic, I'll probably go with Goldring G1042. Or if it's a ClearAudio concept I'll probably look at a better cart from the same stable: Somthing like the Artist MM.

Enjoy the audition you're luckier than most in being able to do so.

I can understand the idea of keeping the deck from one manufacturer but sometimes this is not the best value for money.... hence my German turntable, British tonearm, Swiss cartridge set-up... ;-)

 

[Al ears]

Any danger of someone buying a turntable anytime soon?

Presumably you mean PP, I already have one.... and always have..

 

[ifor]

The fact they don't even display prices on their own website certainly makes purchasing or even referencing extremely difficult which is why I steer clear of suggesting hard to come by cartridges that I know nothing about. It only adds more confusion to the OP.

There’s quite a difference between not recommending something you don’t know, which I understand, and dismissing it out of hand, which is what you did. I’m quite sure the OP/PP can decide for himself whether or not to investigate further and he might be the best judge of how easily he gets confused.

 

[plastic penguin]

Totally understand the mix 'n' match thing. I've been doing this throughout my hi-fi life. I've fond memories of owning Goldrings from yesteryear (on a Garrard table) but I know the ClearAudio cart (Classic Wood and now Concept cart) have given the budget Xpression the desired effect.

My cheapo Xpression has given me countless hours of vinyl pleasure over the last 12-years. Now it's time to move on.

 

[Al ears]

Totally understand the mix 'n' match thing. I've been doing this throughout my hi-fi life. I've fond memories of owning Goldrings from yesteryear (on a Garrard table) but I know the ClearAudio cart (Classic Wood and now Concept cart) have given the budget Xpression the desired effect.

My cheapo Xpression has given me countless hours of vinyl pleasure over the last 12-years. Now it's time to move on.

Understand. Going for known classics is a good option. I wasn't aiming to dismiss other's suggestions out of hand but a little research shows the costs might not be sustainable when more easily accessible cartridges are more available and more people have had the time and money to assess them . I wouldn't even propose a cartridge I clearly had no idea of what it actually cost. Unknowns might be very good indeed but who is going to risk finding out? Not me I am afraid been bitten once too often and am now very careful as to what I purchase or recommend.

Assuming people have done their own research I can offer opinions as to which, out of a list they propose, can offer best value for money but only if I have heard said items.

Good luck with your eventual choice I am sure they will give you years more entertainment.

 

[bigfish786]

Is your clearaudio cart the concept mm?

I only ask. As it is really quite easy to upgrade the stylus on there. For around £26 you can get the ATN95EX cartridge, which has a superior profile, and would really surprise you with its quality.

I have the Virtuoso cart with one fitted, and I’m very happy with it indeed.

 

[Al ears]

Is your clearaudio cart the concept mm?

I only ask. As it is really quite easy to upgrade the stylus on there. For around £26 you can get the ATN95EX cartridge, which has a superior profile, and would really surprise you with its quality.

I have the Virtuoso cart with one fitted, and I’m very happy with it indeed.

If this is correct it clearly shows that many manufacturers of turntables do not actually manufacturer their own cartridges. Something that is becoming ever more prevalent. Nobody actually reviews or indeed purchases a hybrid cartridge so I can only accept bigfishes opinion on this one. Many rebadge cartridges made by established firms are sold by the turntables manufacturers and charge an arm and a leg for the privilege so I have always had mine from the cartridge manufacturer themselves. For this reason I can commend or not, hybrids I know nothing about.

Sometimes it's best to just stick with what you are known to be good at, in some cases that's speakers..... ;-)

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Bigfish is spot on, with a bit of remodelling using a craft knife the AT stylus will indeed fit the Clearaudio cart; there's even a youtube demo to show you how to do it. Not certain of it but this would suggest to me that Clearaudio carts are AT items in different clothes.

 

[plastic penguin]

Is your clearaudio cart the concept mm?

I only ask. As it is really quite easy to upgrade the stylus on there. For around £26 you can get the ATN95EX cartridge, which has a superior profile, and would really surprise you with its quality.

I have the Virtuoso cart with one fitted, and I’m very happy with it indeed.

First off I had the Classic Wood cart. The stylus couldn't be changed. It was a fixed cart and needle. Fed up with this, I purchased a Ortofon Red as a impulse buy. Didn't like it at all. Since then I've had the Concept MM cart. It sounds right with my system and ears.

Now I've upgraded the amp I want to pimp up the TT, so now I've plumped for the two TTs and two carts.

Not interested in adding a different make stylus to a cart. I'll stick with what I know and like.