What turntable for the Leema?

[plastic penguin]

This has thrown a spanner in the works a little.

Originally I was looking for a table to match the Pulse. Since the impulse purchase of the Tucana, I guess I will need to look further up the ladder.

Spoke to my local SSAV this morning and they have a Roksan Radius 7 on special offer, but not had any experience of Roksan TTs.

So much choice between £1000-£2000, so little knowledge of TTs from yours truly. Eek!

Help!

 

[Al ears]

This has thrown a spanner in the works a little.

Originally I was looking for a table to match the Pulse. Since the impulse purchase of the Tucana, I guess I will need to look further up the ladder.

Spoke to my local SSAV this morning and they have a Roksan Radius 7 on special offer, but not had any experience of Roksan TTs.

So much choice between £1000-£2000, so little knowledge of TTs from yours truly. Eek!

Help!

Will try, it's a bit easier than trying to recommend speakers ;-)

When you say match to Tucana I assume you are meaning relative to price, as you can't actually match a turntable to an amplifier.

Although it is nice to be able to audition turntables this will cut down on your choices quite a bit as, unless you are prepared to travel a lot, you are only going to be able to audition the usual suspects. Anyway in most cases all you are actually auditioning is the cartridge, which brings me to next question.

Are you wanting to buy a 'package' from a dealer?

Are you prepared to get turntable and cartridge seperately, i.e. can you fit a cartridge yourself or get a dealer to fit one for you? Only asking as most 'packaged' turntables come with a decent tonearm but they try to cut costs in fitting cheaper cartridges to keep costs down when that tonearm can obviously handle something more expensive.

Will you be buying a turntable for looks or value for money? Sorry for the number of questions but you would be surprised the number of people that buy a turntable simply because it's a fad and they just have to have one. ;-)

Am I correct in assuming you want to buy new?

I had the original Radius 5 and didn't like the fact you couldn't really adjust the level of it using the feet provided, not too sure if these have been improved either? What cartridge is fitted to it? Do you like the looks?

Personally i would not buy a turntable without some sort of dust cover.

 

[davidf]

I'd say it's just a case of getting out there and hearing some. They're just as personal as speakers, and the differences between them can almost be as great. My choice between the £1,000-2,000 price point would be the Clearaudio Concept (MM or MC). The clarity it offers is stunning and unrivalled, in my opinion. Although at this point, I've not heard the VPI option (the Cliffwood).

 

[plastic penguin]

When you say match to Tucana I assume you are meaning relative to price, as you can't actually match a turntable to an amplifier.

Although it is nice to be able to audition turntables this will cut down on your choices quite a bit as, unless you are prepared to travel a lot, you are only going to be able to audition the usual suspects. Anyway in most cases all you are actually auditioning is the cartridge, which brings me to next question.

Are you wanting to buy a 'package' from a dealer?

Are you prepared to get turntable and cartridge seperately, i.e. can you fit a cartridge yourself or get a dealer to fit one for you? Only asking as most 'packaged' turntables come with a decent tonearm but they try to cut costs in fitting cheaper cartridges to keep costs down when that tonearm can obviously handle something more expensive.

Will you be buying a turntable for looks or value for money? Sorry for the number of questions but you would be surprised the number of people that buy a turntable simply because it's a fad and they just have to have one.

Am I correct in assuming you want to buy new?

Okay Al. Think you know the answer about "fad". I've owned vinyl since the 70s and my collection is pretty substantial.

To match the price of a Tucana? That's the bones of my logic. Hopefully you can add flesh to the bones.

A package? Whatever gives me the best overall sound within my budget.

Looks or VFM: Both. I've always said that the aesthetics of the Pro-ject and affordable Regas are bland. More retro looking would be good, but SQ is ultimate.

I don't mind s/hand or ex-dem but ONLY if it's from a known dealer. Too many pitfalls in buying a used TT from private people IMHO.

Not really sure what you mean by "all you are auditioning is the cartridge". I know from personal experience an upgraded cart can improve the soundstage, detail blah blah.... surely the arm, bearings etc etc play a huge part. Or perhaps not.

Hope you can understand that 'guff'.

 

[brownz]

A little bit biased, but I'm still not growing tired of the looks and sound from my 2-Xperience SB in Walnut.

Simplistic design and looks, dark matt veneer finish, great tonearm, lid - something essential in a house with added meow, the only thing I have upgraded is the cart to a 2M Black.

Coupled to a Lehmann Black Cube SE it's a combination that still impresses me everytime I mount a slab of plastic on it.

 

[plastic penguin]

I'd say it's just a case of getting out there and hearing some. They're just as personal as speakers, and the differences between them can almost be as great. My choice between the £1,000-2,000 price point would be the Clearaudio Concept (MM or MC). The clarity it offers is stunning and unrivalled, in my opinion. Although at this point, I've not heard the VPI option (the Cliffwood).

David - I know you're a big admirer of the ClearAudio TTs. Given its price the MC should be better, but as my phono stage is switchable would a standard MM Clearaudo sound the same if I added a MC cart?

This poses another question: if a MC cart added to MM TT will improve things, which MC cart to choose?

As regards to to auditioning. Due to work commitments lugging an amp, TT and speakers around southern England isn't going to be practical. That said, I have no issue with making a very short short-list and then fitting that between the work.

 

[Al ears]

I'd say it's just a case of getting out there and hearing some. They're just as personal as speakers, and the differences between them can almost be as great. My choice between the £1,000-2,000 price point would be the Clearaudio Concept (MM or MC). The clarity it offers is stunning and unrivalled, in my opinion. Although at this point, I've not heard the VPI option (the Cliffwood).

David - I know you're a big admirer of the ClearAudio TTs. Given its price the MC should be better, but as my phono stage is switchable would a standard MM Clearaudo sound the same if I added a MC cart?

This poses another question: if a MC cart added to MM TT will improve things, which MC cart to choose?

As regards to to auditioning. Due to work commitments lugging an amp, TT and speakers around southern England isn't going to be practical. That said, I have no issue with making a very short short-list and then fitting that between the work.

I am sure David will clarify but I am sure the deck is the same, you choose whether it comes with a MM or a MC cartridge attached. On a personal note, at this price point, I would stick withh MM and be thankful for the ability on most cartridges to simply buy a new stylus when old one wears out.

If you are not averse to retro then I would seriosly suggest you look at the new Technics direct-drive SL1200GR and have it fitted with a Nagaoka MP200 or Goldring 1042 cartridge.

I would avoid the Roksan unless you can very accurately level whatever it sits on and you budget for an acrylic cover for it - they are dust magnets.... ;-)

Within your budget you may be able to get a re-conditioned deck and tonearm direct from the manufacture at Origin Live. Something I would also strongly suggest looking into.

As you may have gathered I am not really into ready-made packages as most tend to be style / convenience over substance.

 

[chebby]

I'd want to hear one at the very least! (Seems to be in your budget 'ball park'.)

After that chunk of 'retro', some more ...

https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/products/The-Classic

(Lots of spare cash left over to splurge on a cart.)

I have lots of other ideas but I know - from your past upgrade threads - that you won't travel very far from home (not even London) and you tend to reject used and brand-new alike. You prefer the 'end-of-line'/ex-demo bargains. That's fine but it makes it difficult to suggest anything without an intimate knowledge of what your two or three local (very local) dealers have got going on.

 

[chebby]

Oh, what the heck!

Marantz TT-15S1 (£1299 - £1399 depending on dealer).

EAT B-Sharp. £1295 from Guildford Audio (with no cartridge).

 

[Al ears]

Oh, what the heck!

Marantz TT-15S1 (£1299 - £1399 depending on dealer).

EAT B-Sharp. £1295 from Guildford Audio (with no cartridge).

That EAT might be a smart buy....

 

[chebby]

If it were me (with up to £2000 for a TT), then i'd go the whole 'modernised retro' hog and a bit more (including squeal) and buy an Inspire Hi-fi Enigma (completely overhauled and re-plinthed Goldring Lenco GL75) for £1750 + cost of arm. (One of these to get started.)

I've sold all my vinyl but I could buy an LP and just watch this thing going around and around ...

 

[Al ears]

If it were me (with up to £2000 for a TT), then i'd go the whole 'modernised retro' hog and a bit more (including squeal) and buy an Inspire Hi-fi Enigma (completely overhauled and re-plinthed Goldring Lenco GL75) for £1750 + cost of arm. (One of these to get started.)

I've sold all my vinyl but I could buy an LP and just watch this thing going around and around ...

Leaving about £100 for a cartridge? .... well OK then. ;-)

 

[plastic penguin]

Those tables Chebby flagged up from 'Inspire' really look the part. Gorgeous. The same with the ClearAudio MC. They look good but without comparing I really don't know how they stack up. That's the only thing choking me off bespoke tables. I'm pretty sure they sound better than my old Xpression but whether it's £1600 better is another question. It is all subjective, that I'm well aware of, but need to know if the sound will 'wow' me or just make me think "it's good but..."

The trick is getting the prep right, hence why I started this thread. Once I've cut through the also-rans (or how I perceive it), then I can audition with a bit more confidence. Hopefully, then, I will have the ideal table for my budget (and ears). That's the plan.

 

[nopiano]

I'd also be tempted to look at the new Technics as that leaves plenty for a really super catridge. Having been delighted with my British Michell I'd also seriously consider a Gyro SE. To manage the cost you might just stick with the very good Rega 303 arm and a more modest cartridge. Then again, several dealers offer quite painless 0% finance options which would tempt me to blow nearer three grand!

The Inspire looks fab, but I don't think I could rationally choose an idler drive in 2017!

 

[Al ears]

I'd also be tempted to look at the new Technics as that leaves plenty for a really super catridge. Having been delighted with my British Michell I'd also seriously consider a Gyro SE. To manage the cost you might just stick with the very good Rega 303 arm and a more modest cartridge. Then again, several dealers offer quite painless 0% finance options which would tempt me to blow nearer three grand!

The Inspire looks fab, but I don't think I could rationally choose an idler drive in 2017!

+1

 

[ifor]

I don't think I could rationally choose an idler drive in 2017!

+1

Why on earth not? Check out Bob Wood's recordings from his PTPaudio Solid12.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVRr-dTzRK5TbZJSSSwWs-g

 

[chebby]

I don't think I could rationally choose an idler drive in 2017!

There is nothing rational about playing vinyl at all in 2017

 

[davidf]

David - I know you're a big admirer of the ClearAudio TTs. Given its price the MC should be better, but as my phono stage is switchable would a standard MM Clearaudo sound the same if I added a MC cart?

This poses another question: if a MC cart added to MM TT will improve things, which MC cart to choose?

As regards to to auditioning. Due to work commitments lugging an amp, TT and speakers around southern England isn't going to be practical. That said, I have no issue with making a very short short-list and then fitting that between the work.

Apologies for the late reply, it's been a rather busy day preparing for the show next week.

The only difference are the carts, the decks are the same. I don't think I ever got round to hearing the MC version, but the presentation of the MM version was very much MC sounding anyway. The nearest sounding to that was the Project, but it lacked the finesse and ability to produce delicate detail that the Concept could.

 

[nopiano]

I don't think I could rationally choose an idler drive in 2017!

There is nothing rational about playing vinyl at all in 2017

True! Maybe 'retro drive' is what it needs!

 

[plastic penguin]

Thanks David. That's solved a slight issue I had when looking at the MC version.

Nopiano: The Gyrodec is a good option. Looks awesome and a great reputation.

Vinyl is only rational in 2017 if you truly embrace the format. My collection answers that question.

 

[Al ears]

Thanks David. That's solved a slight issue I had when looking at the MC version.

Nopiano: The Gyrodec is a good option. Looks awesome and a great reputation.

Vinyl is only rational in 2017 if you truly embrace the format. My collection answers that question.

I may be wrong but I think nopiano was referring to idler drive rather than vinyl itself.

 

[Al ears]

I don't think I could rationally choose an idler drive in 2017!

+1

Why on earth not? Check out Bob Wood's recordings from his PTPaudio Solid12.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVRr-dTzRK5TbZJSSSwWs-g

You cannot suggest that I will be able to assess the quality of a turntable by watching some video on YouTube surely?

That aside PP is very unlikely to be able to find one to audition and even less likely to get one within his budget so pretty irrelevant really.

Idler drives will always have had their disadvantages though a few might consider them advantages however, in this day and age, it is not a drive mechanism I would care to design a turntable around.

 

[chebby]

Whereas I DO think analogue vinyl LPs in 2017 are irrational.

It doesn't matter. Lots of enjoyable things in life are irrational.

Why the heck shouldn't someone want to replay the 1970s in their living rooms with equipment that evokes the era (like those Technics' at £1300 a pop).

Some people once thought we'd all be eating food from toothpaste tubes by now. It was more rational to them. (I've known a few like that!) Vinyl lovers enjoy the crackles and pops and groove noise and pre-echos and the danger of wipng out hundreds (or thousands) of pounds of cartridge in one careless moment! They love the work involved, the cleaning and dusting, the technicalities of overhang, effective mass, alignment, tracking force, anti-skate, VTF, azimuth etc. etc.

I know because I enjoyed all that once.

 

[Al ears]

Whereas I DO think analogue vinyl LPs in 2017 are irrational.

It doesn't matter. Lots of enjoyable things in life are irrational.

Why the heck shouldn't someone want to replay the 1970s in their living rooms with equipment that evokes the era (like those Technics' at £1300 a pop).

Some people once thought we'd all be eating food from toothpaste tubes by now. It was more rational to them. (I've known a few like that!) Vinyl lovers enjoy the crackles and pops and groove noise and pre-echos and the danger of wipng out hundreds (or thousands) of pounds of cartridge in one careless moment! They love the work involved, the cleaning and dusting, the technicalities of overhang, effective mass, alignment, tracking force, anti-skate, VTF, azimuth etc. etc.

I know because I enjoyed all that once.

It would seem plastic penguin would like to do the same now and to utilise his collection of vinyl on a turntable assumingly better than he has used in the past. Who are we to try to disuade him?

 

[ifor]

I don't think I could rationally choose an idler drive in 2017!

Why on earth not? Check out Bob Wood's recordings from his PTPaudio Solid12.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVRr-dTzRK5TbZJSSSwWs-g

You cannot suggest that I will be able to assess the quality of a turntable by watching some video on YouTube surely?

That aside PP is very unlikely to be able to find one to audition and even less likely to get one within his budget so pretty irrelevant really.

Idler drives will always have had their disadvantages though a few might consider them advantages however, in this day and age, it is not a drive mechanism I would care to design a turntable around.

[/quote]

It rather depends on how you listen to YouTube. Try playing it properly through you hi-fi. I airplay it to my Raspberry Pis HiFiBerry Digi which feeds into my DAC. It's just another source

Inspire's Enigma, admittedly outside PP's price range, can easily be auditioned, if interested enough to take a trip up the M1.

The PTP (Peter's top plate) is designed to address the shortcomings of the donor GL-75.