What turntable for the Leema?

[iceman16]

IME The RPM5 blows out the basic Clearaudio basic out... in evevy corner and I heared them both!

 

[Alantiggger]

This has thrown a spanner in the works a little.

Originally I was looking for a table to match the Pulse. Since the impulse purchase of the Tucana, I guess I will need to look further up the ladder.

Spoke to my local SSAV this morning and they have a Roksan Radius 7 on special offer, but not had any experience of Roksan TTs.

So much choice between £1000-£2000, so little knowledge of TTs from yours truly. Eek!

Help!

Haven't you heard the news then ?

CD's are the way to go.

 

[davidf]

David .. Have you heard the Project prm5 ?

I haven’t. It’d have to go some to beat the Concept, although when I tried a load of £1k turntables out, the Project (surprisingly to me) was the closest to the Concept, but as I mentioned earlier, it just wasn’t as refined, and couldn’t reproduce small details like cymbal work as delicately as the Concept MM. Maybe the RPM5 with a better cart might do the trick, but I’m not sure what they would take the price up to, as I see it’s £949 without cart, so depending on that choice could make it sit between the Concept MM and the Rega 6.

 

[plastic penguin]

First off, what a complete pi##er travelling over to north London. I got caught up in the footie traffic going to Wembley and other stadiums around the capital. Arrived there with 10 minutes to spare, and parking was another matter.

I listened to my Xpression for about 5 minutes, rigged to the Tucana and PMC Twenty5 21, just to get to grips with the room acoustics.

Most kids grew up, as I did, playing with the board game 'Snakes and Ladders', and this is kinda how I felt going through the chosen tables. But I'll explain more a little later:

The albums I took was Joan Aramtrading 'Whatever's For Us' and ELO 'A New World Record'.

First up was the Pro-ject Classic. It's as I remember it: aesthetically appealing. I would say if you were a 'hipster' trying to impress chavy friends on a budget, then the Classic is a good place to start.

Back to the nitty-gritty: Pro-ject Classic (£900)

The Build and finish of the Classic is very good for a sub-£1000 table. I was surprised by the sound quality, in terms of a little more detail and the overall ambience (atmosphere) it produced: The title track 'Whatever's for Us', Armatrading's emotional voice was pretty immediate and impressive. Likewise with ELO's 'Telephone Line'. The separation in the intro struck home: the detail and extra clarity was very good indeed, and the harmonies sounded natural. Not once did I get the sense that it sounded anything other than traditional vinyl. Three tracks were played over a 15 minute period.

(Threw the dice and climbed the ladder to the next level. Avoided the dreaded snake.)

ClearAudio Concept MM (£1000):

Very different aesthetically. Loved its non-conventional looks (by direct comparison to the Pro-ject). As the knobologist, I found the speed control knob very attractive (should get out more). Like the previous table the build, fit and finish was impressive.

After playing identical tracks, yes the ClearAudio had a bit more about its character: Clarity, touch more detail, gorgeous 3D presentation. My only slight gripe was the lowest frequences seemed not quite as deep as on the Pro-ject. That said, it was never thin or weedy.

The thing I found most impressive about both tables was a lack of noise between tracks. I haven't checked the tracking or weight on the Xpression for ages, and with the bumps in the road, that might have thrown it off kilter. However....

Without question the ClearAudio has the advantage in a lot of areas, not quite as much as I expected. They were subtle at best.

(Threw the dice again and climbed the ladder to another level).

So I came away with the ClearAudio Concept MM turntable. Actually, NO. Let me explain.

Almost on the verge of saying "can you do me deal on the lid?", when the salesperson dropped one helleva a bomshell.

He said would like to listen to that, over in the corner? Well 'that' was a Gyrodec. Every sinuey logic in my body told me to say 'No, no, no...' For some inexplicable reason, I just said "okay". What in all that's holy was wrong with me?

It was £2200 without cartridge and lid.

It had none of my original brief of being retro or quirky. Nonetheless, the Gyro looked gorgeous, and the cart fitted was a Cadenz (Red I think).

Played exactly the same tracks as on the previous two tables and... WOW! The step up in quality all-round was quite profound. The clarity compared to the ClearAudio was like have a veil taken away from the speakers. The LF definition was mind-blowing, subtleties in the midrange and HFs was very audible. I was gnoring away on my knuckles. It's over budget.

(Straight down the snakes tail to 'Start Again')

I could wait 2-3 months to save the extra pennies and buy the Gyro, but I told him I'll decide by mid-week. To be very honest, though, I could live happily with any of those tables in isolation in my house. But the Gyro has definitely messed with the old grey matter.

C'est la vie.

 

[Al ears]

First off, what a complete pi##er travelling over to north London. I got caught up in the footie traffic going to Wembley and other stadiums around the capital. Arrived there with 10 minutes to spare, and parking was another matter.

I listened to my Xpression for about 5 minutes, rigged to the Tucana and PMC Twenty5 21, just to get to grips with the room acoustics.

Most kids grew up, as I did, playing with the board game 'Snakes and Ladders', and this is kinda how I felt going through the chosen tables. But I'll explain more a little later:

The albums I took was Joan Aramtrading 'Whatever's For Us' and ELO 'A New World Record'.

First up was the Pro-ject Classic. It's as I remember it: aesthetically appealing. I would say if you were a 'hipster' trying to impress chavy friends on a budget, then the Classic is a good place to start.

Back to the nitty-gritty: Pro-ject Classic (£900)

The Build and finish of the Classic is very good for a sub-£1000 table. I was surprised by the sound quality, in terms of a little more detail and the overall ambience (atmosphere) it produced: The title track 'Whatever's for Us', Armatrading's emotional voice was pretty immediate and impressive. Likewise with ELO's 'Telephone Line'. The separation in the intro struck home: the detail and extra clarity was very good indeed, and the harmonies sounded natural. Not once did I get the sense that it sounded anything other than traditional vinyl. Three tracks were played over a 15 minute period.

(Threw the dice and climbed the ladder to the next level. Avoided the dreaded snake.)

ClearAudio Concept MM (£1000):

Very different aesthetically. Loved its non-conventional looks (by direct comparison to the Pro-ject). As the knobologist, I found the speed control knob very attractive (should get out more). Like the previous table the build, fit and finish was impressive.

After playing identical tracks, yes the ClearAudio had a bit more about its character: Clarity, touch more detail, gorgeous 3D presentation. My only slight gripe was the lowest frequences seemed not quite as deep as on the Pro-ject. That said, it was never thin or weedy.

The thing I found most impressive about both tables was a lack of noise between tracks. I haven't checked the tracking or weight on the Xpression for ages, and with the bumps in the road, that might have thrown it off kilter. However....

Without question the ClearAudio has the advantage in a lot of areas, not quite as much as I expected. They were subtle at best.

(Threw the dice again and climbed the ladder to another level).

So I came away with the ClearAudio Concept MM turntable. Actually, NO. Let me explain.

Almost on the verge of saying "can you do me deal on the lid?", when the salesperson dropped one helleva a bomshell.

He said would like to listen to that, over in the corner? Well 'that' was a Gyrodec. Every sinuey logic in my body told me to say 'No, no, no...' For some inexplicable reason, I just said "okay". What in all that's holy was wrong with me?

It was £2200 without cartridge and lid.

It had none of my original brief of being retro or quirky. Nonetheless, the Gyro looked gorgeous, and the cart fitted was a Cadenz (Red I think).

Played exactly the same tracks as on the previous two tables and... WOW! The step up in quality all-round was quite profound. The clarity compared to the ClearAudio was like have a veil taken away from the speakers. The LF definition was mind-blowing, subtleties in the midrange and HFs was very audible. I was gnoring away on my knuckles. It's over budget.

(Straight down the snakes tail to 'Start Again')

I could wait 2-3 months to save the extra pennies and buy the Gyro, but I told him I'll decide by mid-week. To be very honest, though, I could live happily with any of those tables in isolation in my house. But the Gyro has definitely messed with the old grey matter.

C'est la vie.

Great write up. Although a brilliant turntable I wonder if the superiority of the Gyrodec was down to the arm / Cadenza. I am assuming it was the standard cartridge fitted to the Classic.

Like you say you pays your money and takes your pick but I think I know where my money would go if all three had had a Cadenza fitted. Anyway it's pretty much chalk and cheese as the Gyrodec SE, the Gyrodec itself comes with an acrylic base and lid, that you auditioned normally comes as a stand-alone turntable and the others are sold as complete packages. The Gyrodec gives you the option of tonearm choice along with your choice of cartridge.

 

[davidf]

You’ve found that “next step up”. Whilst you get what you pay for with turntables, and paying a bit more gets you a bit more, looking at something twice the price really brings you something quite different. Now you have £2000+ options to consider...

 

[plastic penguin]

As the Gyro is a SE, I'll have to factor in a dust cover and a cart that'll do it justice. Won't get much change from 3k. That's a real biggy to swallow. Also - even though vinyl and radio are my main sources - do I appreciate vinyl enough to warrant spending that sort of dough?

 

[bigfish786]

Having heard a gyro se some time ago. And marvelling at those brass weights spinning under the platter, I have myself got it in my head. Yes, it’s a lot of money, but to me, it’s well worth the extra outlay.

You can take your time, and think about your purchase, if you find yourself looking at your turntable in the next few days, and picturing that Michell right there, then you know what to do.

Good luck with your choice.

Whatever you chose is gonna be a nice addition to the Tucana.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Wouldn't want to be in your shoes right know PP *biggrin*

 

[plastic penguin]

Wouldn't want to be in your shoes right know PP *biggrin*

Nor do I. My feet are killing me after all that walking yesterday. *help*

 

[plastic penguin]

As the Gyro is a SE, I'll have to factor in a dust cover and a cart that'll do it justice. Won't get much change from 3k. That's a real biggy to swallow. Also - even though vinyl and radio are my main sources - do I appreciate vinyl enough to warrant spending that sort of dough?

They do occasionally turn up pre-owned. Always worth looking out for as owner is normally the sort of person that cares for their kit.

Now I've pestered a dealer, I'd feel like a g#t if I was to find a pre-owned one elsewhere.

I wouldn't touch one from a private buyer.

 

[Al ears]

As the Gyro is a SE, I'll have to factor in a dust cover and a cart that'll do it justice. Won't get much change from 3k. That's a real biggy to swallow. Also - even though vinyl and radio are my main sources - do I appreciate vinyl enough to warrant spending that sort of dough?

They do occasionally turn up pre-owned. Always worth looking out for as owner is normally the sort of person that cares for their kit.

There is a Gyro SE with Orbe upgrades on eBay at the moment for 1250, but again you'll need tonearm and cartridge.

I wouldn't mention the fully kitted SE with cover, Benz cartridge and Iso phono preamp for 2995...... ;-)

 

[Al ears]

As the Gyro is a SE, I'll have to factor in a dust cover and a cart that'll do it justice. Won't get much change from 3k. That's a real biggy to swallow. Also - even though vinyl and radio are my main sources - do I appreciate vinyl enough to warrant spending that sort of dough?

They do occasionally turn up pre-owned. Always worth looking out for as owner is normally the sort of person that cares for their kit.

Now I've pestered a dealer, I'd feel like a g#t if I was to find a pre-owned one elsewhere.

I wouldn't touch one from a private buyer.

Fair enough.

 

[plastic penguin]

"I wouldn't mention the fully kitted SE with cover, Benz cartridge and Iso phono preamp for 2995".

The more I think about it the more it sounds absurd. My Tucana, PMCs and Pro-ject collectively cost less than 3k.

And considering I'm looking at buying the new Alfa Romeo Giulia Veloce either end of this year or beginning of 2019.

 

[Al ears]

"I wouldn't mention the fully kitted SE with cover, Benz cartridge and Iso phono preamp for 2995".

The more I think about it the more it sounds absurd. My Tucana, PMCs and Pro-ject collectively cost less than 3k.

And considering I'm looking at buying the new Alfa Romeo Giulia Veloce either end of this year or beginning of 2019.

A fine choice of car Sir...

 

[plastic penguin]

After taking it for test drive a few months ago, it is wonderful. That will be payed for through my business. That's why I've said earlier in the thread, my next table will probably be my last...

That's why I'm cogitating so much. Can I justify spending nearly 3k on a TT, cart, phono stage and dust cover... and buy a new car later in the year? You can't really answer it, it's only me who can decide. That's my dilemma.

You asked earlier whether what I was hearing was purely because of the cartridge and arm used in the dem version of the Gyro. Really couldn't say as I've never had the need to swap arms or use high-end cartridges. You and others are probably better qualified in that area.

Not being negative by any stretch, I'm trying to be practical and realistic. The best of both worlds without shooting myself in the foot.

 

[Al ears]

After taking it for test drive a few months ago, it is wonderful. That will be payed for through my business. That's why I've said earlier in the thread, my next table will probably be my last...

That's why I'm cogitating so much. Can I justify spending nearly 3k on a TT, cart, phono stage and dust cover... and buy a new car later in the year? You can't really answer it, it's only me who can decide. That's my dilemma.

You asked earlier whether what I was hearing was purely because of the cartridge and arm used in the dem version of the Gyro. Really couldn't say as I've never had the need to swap arms or use high-end cartridges. You and others are probably better qualified in that area.

Not being negative by any stretch, I'm trying to be practical and realistic. The best of both worlds without shooting myself in the foot.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I am not one to tell you how much you can justify spending, I'm not your accountant ;-)

Only you can determine how much you can afford to spend on a turntable especially considering your eye on future purchases. Cogitate all you like I am sure either decks you auditioned will offer years of enjoyment.

 

[Jahvelvet]

I think after all you have gone through that you might regret not buying the Michell if you choose to go for something lesser, you would always have that ”if only” feeling perhaps? I upgraded from a Roksan Radius to a Michell Orbe last year after considering many others and I can only say that it is sublime

 

[brownz]

You know how this is going to end.....

New iPod.

New Crosley.

Three weeks all inclusive on a beach in Mexico.....

:-D ;-)

 

[plastic penguin]

Nop. None of that. I'm buying an ape. *biggrin*

 

[alchemist 1]

Nop. None of that. I'm buying an ape. *biggrin*

Is the ape belt driven or direct drive ?*mosking*

 

[nopiano]

Very interesting read, PP. I think Michell are, whisper it, underpriced. If venture capitalists got hold of it, like SME, it would cost a lot more. Frankly, I think ATC are similar - both engineering led and likely to last a very long time.

£3,000 isn’t much in comparison to car depreciation. That’s less than a year in an Alfa! Look at it over ten years, and it’s about the same as a sub to a decent streaming company.

 

[plastic penguin]

Agree with you up to a point. But 3k for self-gratification seems an aweful lot.

Looked on the Henleys website and they suggest either Ortofon Bronze or Black as a cartridge upgrade for the Classic. That'll bring it up to around £1300-1500, and similar, by the time you add in a dustcover and a pimped up cart for the ClearAudio. That sounds more agreeable than 3k.

 

[plastic penguin]

Nop. None of that. I'm buying an ape. *biggrin*

Is the ape belt driven or direct drive ?*mosking*

Are you referring to the APE or APE SE?

Both have a big key in the side of the cab.

 

[nopiano]

Agree with you up to a point. But 3k for self-gratification seems an aweful lot.

Looked on the Henleys website and they suggest either Ortofon Bronze or Black as a cartridge upgrade for the Classic. That'll bring it up to around £1300-1500, and similar, by the time you add in a dustcover and a pimped up cart for the ClearAudio. That sounds more agreeable than 3k.

I completely understand. Hence my current TT which replaced an unused Linn which I sold when I realised I wasn’t prepared to spend £1500 on updates. It’s sensible money for a great sounding deck, that you’re considering.