What turntable for the Leema?

[plastic penguin]

Can't take the Alfa up north. Can't take time off work. This coming week is full on.

Okay, that gives me a little more confidence in the remapped table. Food for thought.

 

[plastic penguin]

Duplicated.

 

[ifor]

One thing that struck me when I visited Inspire was the huge number of old LP12 plinths stacked ready for the skip. They were all from LP12s that had had the Inspire Vivid upgrade. Robert told me, this probably three or four years ago, that he was selling more Vivids that Linn were LP12s. I think there are a lot of happy owners out there.

 

[Al ears]

One thing that struck me when I visited Inspire was the huge number of old LP12 plinths stacked ready for the skip. They were all from LP12s that had had the Inspire Vivid upgrade. Robert told me, this probably three or four years ago, that he was selling more Vivids that Linn were LP12s. I think there are a lot of happy owners out there.

Pretty much says it all really.

 

[plastic penguin]

That's quite impressive. However, they always say 'not to meet your hero', and as I haven't seen one in the flesh since the early 80s....

It does sound tempting. It's that heart over head thing again.

 

[ifor]

It does sound tempting. It's that heart over head thing again.

I'm not so sure it's one over the other.

 

[plastic penguin]

My only real concern, apart from picking up a heavy cold yesterday, about the ClearAudio Concept table is that it may sound too much like a CD player. Read the review of the Pro-ject Classic and WHFI describe the ClearAudio as "almost digital-sounding...".

Nothing against the CD sound but I want a turntable to sound like a ... well, a turntable. This is where I think the ClearAudio cartridge rigged to a competitor comes into its own: the presentation is more open than a typical table (or how we perceive one), while retaining the traditional traits of vinyl playback - the ideal compromise IMHO.

It's a fine balance but...

Would be good to get some feedback on my strange logic.

 

[chebby]

Ask the chaps at Inspire to fit this to your Thorens ...

http://www.analogueseduction.net/tonearms/jelco-sa-750-d-tonearm.html

... it has a standard SME headshell fitting so you can - eventually - have a bunch of cartridges for every occasion. (Without ever having to re-align anything if you stick to MMs with removable stylii.)

I'd probably start with the Shure M97XE. You wanted 'retro' and you don't get more retro (from brand-new) than an SME compatible headshell and a Shure!

Ok, there is the SME M2-9R but that's a bit out of budget!

 

[CnoEvil]

My only real concern, apart from picking up a heavy cold yesterday, about the ClearAudio Concept table is that it may sound too much like a CD player. Read the review of the Pro-ject Classic and WHFI describe the ClearAudio as "almost digital-sounding...".

Nothing against the CD sound but I want a turntable to sound like a ... well, a turntable. This is where I think the ClearAudio cartridge rigged to a competitor comes into its own: the presentation is more open than a typical table (or how we perceive one), while retaining the traditional traits of vinyl playback - the ideal compromise IMHO.

It's a fine balance but...

Would be good to get some feedback on my strange logic.

Maybe the answer is to get a digital sounding TT and an analogue sounding Streamer! *wacko*

 

[nopiano]

My only real concern, apart from picking up a heavy cold yesterday, about the ClearAudio Concept table is that it may sound too much like a CD player. Read the review of the Pro-ject Classic and WHFI describe the ClearAudio as "almost digital-sounding...".

Nothing against the CD sound but I want a turntable to sound like a ... well, a turntable. This is where I think the ClearAudio cartridge rigged to a competitor comes into its own: the presentation is more open than a typical table (or how we perceive one), while retaining the traditional traits of vinyl playback - the ideal compromise IMHO.

It's a fine balance but...

Would be good to get some feedback on my strange logic.

Maybe the answer is to get a digital sounding TT and an analogue sounding Streamer! *wacko*

Ha, ha! Trust you, Cno!

More seriously, this makes me wonder if we all have the same perception of digital and analogue sound. Rather than just the sound of music. (Not "The sound of music" the musical/film!)

 

[plastic penguin]

My only real concern, apart from picking up a heavy cold yesterday, about the ClearAudio Concept table is that it may sound too much like a CD player. Read the review of the Pro-ject Classic and WHFI describe the ClearAudio as "almost digital-sounding...".

Nothing against the CD sound but I want a turntable to sound like a ... well, a turntable. This is where I think the ClearAudio cartridge rigged to a competitor comes into its own: the presentation is more open than a typical table (or how we perceive one), while retaining the traditional traits of vinyl playback - the ideal compromise IMHO.

It's a fine balance but...

Would be good to get some feedback on my strange logic.

Maybe the answer is to get a digital sounding TT and an analogue sounding Streamer! *wacko*

Ha, ha! Trust you, Cno!

More seriously, this makes me wonder if we all have the same perception of digital and analogue sound. Rather than just the sound of music. (Not "The sound of music" the musical/film!)

The only pertinent streamer is this darn cold.

Streamers 0 - 1 Turntable.

I've always said ClearAudio cart on my puny £200 Pro-ject makes it sound more expensive. But it sounds right. It doesn't sound like one would expect a digital device to sound, far more open and airy than the usual budget table.

Perhaps I'm thinking too deeply: Maybe the ClearAudio TT will sound great once it's up and running.

If I'm unsure of something hi-fiy the old grey matter goes into overdrive.

 

[plastic penguin]

Ask the chaps at Inspire to fit this to your Thorens ...

http://www.analogueseduction.net/tonearms/jelco-sa-750-d-tonearm.html

... it has a standard SME headshell fitting so you can - eventually - have a bunch of cartridges for every occasion. (Without ever having to re-align anything if you stick to MMs with removable stylii.)

I'd probably start with the Shure M97XE. You wanted 'retro' and you don't get more retro (from brand-new) than an SME compatible headshell and a Shure!

Ok, there is the SME M2-9R but that's a bit out of budget!

Interesting.

How old is the Rega 202 entry-level arm that Inspire said they would fit? Yip, the SME M2-9R is OTT.

 

[CnoEvil]

[Ha, ha! Trust you, Cno!

More seriously, this makes me wonder if we all have the same perception of digital and analogue sound. Rather than just the sound of music. (Not "The sound of music" the musical/film!)

Many (many) years ago, at the birth of digital, I can remember the way (probably by WHF) to get across the difference.

It was at the time when BBC 1 used a spinning Globe, and BB2 used a clean, lazer-etched, multi-coloured 2.....it's not hard to figure which they allocated to each format.

 

[Freddy58]

I find the notion that a turntable can sound the same as a cdp a bit silly. To my mind, a turntable's only function is to spin at a constant/accurate rate, and to do it quietly. I'm probably naive...

 

[CnoEvil]

I find the notion that a turntable can sound the same as a cdp a bit silly. To my mind, a turntable's only function is to spin at a constant/accurate rate, and to do it quietly. I'm probably naive...

IME. To a reasonable extent, the more expensive both formats get, the more similar they start to sound (as they iron out the weaknesses of each).

 

[Freddy58]

I find the notion that a turntable can sound the same as a cdp a bit silly. To my mind, a turntable's only function is to spin at a constant/accurate rate, and to do it quietly. I'm probably naive...

IME. To a reasonable extent, the more expensive both formats get, the more similar they start to sound (as they iron out the weaknesses of each).

But surely, that has more to do with arm/cartridge than the turntable itself? To my mind, a turntable shouldn't 'sound' of anything.

 

[Freddy58]

I misunderstood when the Clearaudio Concept was mentioned, didn't realise it came as a package.

 

[CnoEvil]

But surely, that has more to do with arm/cartridge than the turntable itself? To my mind, a turntable shouldn't 'sound' of anything.

When I refer to a TT, I mean one that is set up to play an album....as it saves writing TT+Arm+Cartridge+Needle. *wink*

Each element contributes to the sound. Back when I was into them, the general advice was the TT design was more impotant than the arm, which was more important than the cartridge. No one element will produce a sound on its own.

 

[plastic penguin]

We all agree (presumably) that all the elements makes up the 'whole' of how a table is presented. Even though I've banged on about ClearAudio carts making a difference, what I'm referring to is tonal: It's more neutral than other similar priced carts.

Nopiano questioned how we all perceive digital v analogue. I've had TTs since (circa 1978): Garrard SP25 MKV and Garrard B2 and Pro-ject Xpression. Because I keep them so long I've never had the urge to dem other tables, so, consequently, my perception of a vinyl sound is only governed by the past tables.

That's my dilemma: I know the sound I want to achieve. But to try and explain before I've given these newer tables a good shakedown, will be impossible. Once I've heard 'IT' then I can either part with the money or gamble on the Inspire Thorens.

 

[ifor]

i think the Jelco tonearm is a great idea and one I've toyed with myself, but having been gifted an RB1000 and being very happy with my G1042 cartridge I gave up any thought of cartridge swapping.

When Robert "inspired" my Manticore Mantra he fitted an RB301. I'm surprised he's suggesting a 202, which had been superseded by the 220, rather than a 300 series, the current version of which is the 330. Maybe there's more to these numbers than I know.

 

[chebby]

The latest RB220 has no manual adjustment for bias/anti-skate so you are doomed to a 'one size fits all' pre-set value.

Everyone knows that RBnnn arms traditionally over compensate bias (settings half the recommended value, or less are usually best) and skipping can ensue. The RB220 removes your ability to override this or to set higher/lower values for different carts.

I'd choose the older RB202 or RB250 (or Moth) arms wherever possible.

 

[ifor]

... more to these numbers than I know. Thank you.

 

[Al ears]

The latest RB220 has no manual adjustment for bias/anti-skate so you are doomed to a 'one size fits all' pre-set value.

Everyone knows that RBnnn arms traditionally over compensate bias (settings half the recommended value, or less are usually best) and skipping can ensue. The RB220 removes your ability to override this or to set higher/lower values for different carts.

I'd choose the older RB202 or RB250 (or Moth) arms wherever possible.

Indeed, if you want value for money and adjustability go for RB250 or 300, I.e. the old column mounts.

 

[ifor]

Nopiano questioned how we all perceive digital v analogue.

This is why the digital to analogue conversion is so important. Many seem to say that all DACs sound the same i.e. "digital", but it's what's done by the designer after the DAC chip that really makes the difference.

 

[ifor]

gamble on the Inspire Thorens.

I'm sure you'll be more than happy with either of your shortlisted TTs and really don't think the Thorens would be a gamble. I know which I would go for. BTW if interested Inspire have an ex demo Vivid (LP12) on offer at a good price, according to their Facebook post.