What rough price does Hi-Fi sound start at ?

[Jota180]

PMC make both passive and actives and they say actives are better.

 

[relocated]

The accuracy of headphones drove me on to find a speaker system that could compete and when I found it, it was one of the most glorious moments in my life.

A somewhat 'over-the-top' reaction to just finding a hi-fi you really liked.

Your ignorant and small minded comment is a sad reflection on you Chebby. I feel sorry for you.

No need. Thankfully I have had many moments in my life that I wouldn't swap for the puchase of any hi-fi that it's possible to obtain. No hi-fi can ever be that good.

If that makes me small-minded and ignorant then great! I'll have some more please.

Neither would I, but then I never spoke about swapping moments in my life. Just that the effect, after searching for 40 years, was/is one of the best . You've not experienced what I did and so I feel sorry for you, because you profess to care about the quality of musical reproduction.

 

[Snooker]

In my opinion with what I have experienced and read in this long thread I originally started, believe that hi-fi sound can be obtained through both headphones as well as speakers, and that hi-fi sound probably "starts" for a complete system at around the £300 mark for the Denon DM39, then getting better until say £2000 to £3000 after which there is really no real improvement to notice, and that anything over this price is really just expensive stuff for rich people

 

[Vladimir]

In my opinion with what I have experienced and read in this long thread I originally started, believe that hi-fi sound can be obtained through both headphones as well as speakers, and that hi-fi sound probably "starts" for a complete system at around the £300 mark for the Denon DM39, then getting better until say £2000 to £3000 after which there is really no real improvement to notice, and that anything over this price is really just expensive stuff for rich people

Yes. Now relax, be happy and enjoy music.

 

[CnoEvil]

In my opinion with what I have experienced and read in this long thread I originally started, believe that hi-fi sound can be obtained through both headphones as well as speakers, and that hi-fi sound probably "starts" for a complete system at around the £300 mark for the Denon DM39, then getting better until say £2000 to £3000 after which there is really no real improvement to notice, and that anything over this price is really just expensive stuff for rich people

If you only entertain posts that support your own opinion, then your opinion is unlikely to change...which is a shame.

 

[Covenanter]

I much prefer cable threads to active/passive ones. You get a better class of disagreement.

Chris

 

[lindsayt]

Look up the definition of Internet Troll on Wikipedia.

This comment is trollish by that definition and insulting: "Your ignorant and small minded comment is a sad reflection on you Chebby. I feel sorry for you."

Same with this: "You may have an open mind, but I fear you brains may have fallen out." from Overdose on CJSF's Just Thinking thread.

Same with this from the same poster from the same thread: "Grow up."

And this: "If you feel slighted by such lanuage, I truly feel sorry for you."

It's the all too frequent patronising, insulting, trollish, ad hominem tone from the AVI gang that I think has no place on a hi-fi forum. The trouble is, at the moment, the perpetrators don't seem ready to acknowledge that are being trollish and personally insulting.

Disagreeing about hi-fi is fine. But making ad hominem remarks that are insulting and therefore designed to get an emotional reaction is something that should not be tolerated when it's done with the frequency that Overdose and Relocated have being doing it.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol...... Sorry missed the responses ref my active/passive statement.

Steve 1979 that link agrees with me. If I could be bothered to quote I would.

As for the diagram - put the left/right amps
With the pre-amp in a box .

You guys........lol

Active or passive make llittle to no difference (it's the same technology - ie speakers driven by amps, the location of the amp is irrelevant)

Differences between passive, powered and active speakers: Clicky

 

 

[davedotco]

Lol...... Sorry missed the responses ref my active/passive statement.

Steve 1979 that link agrees with me. If I could be bothered to quote I would.

As for the diagram - put the left/right amps With the pre-amp in a box .

You guys........lol

Active or passive make llittle to no difference (it's the same technology - ie speakers driven by amps, the location of the amp is irrelevant)

Differences between passive, powered and active speakers: Clicky

You really don't get 'active' do you. Don't fret it though, plenty of other 'enthusiasts' don't get it either.

 

[davedotco]

Look at and compare these diagrams, it might help.

 

[steve_1979]

Steve 1979 that link agrees with me.

Actually it doesn't. It quite clearly explains what the differences between passive and active systems are (with actives the crossover splits the audio signal before the amplifiers and there is a separate amplifier for each driver).

If I could be bothered to quote I would.

No worries. I can't be bothered either. *drinks*

 

[Overdose]

The accuracy of headphones drove me on to find a speaker system that could compete and when I found it, it was one of the most glorious moments in my life.

A somewhat 'over-the-top' reaction to just finding a hi-fi you really liked.

Your ignorant and small minded comment is a sad reflection on you Chebby. I feel sorry for you.

When are the forum moderators going to step in and stop these overly common trollish and personally insulting posts from the AVI gang?

If it's "never" that's OK. At least we would all know where we stand then.

I find you to be rather disengenuous, as this post from another of your haunts indicates. You also seem to like using foul language quite a bit. As it happens, I actually don't find anything posted so far, including your quoted rant below, to be particularly out of order and it is probably on the polite side of most chat forums.

Your apparent oversensitivity would be more understandable if it had a modicum of sincerity. Speaking of which, I also seem to remember a bit of dishonest editing several months ago by yourself, of pictures posted by Chebby of your system.

Re: Manufacturers Forums
by Lindsayt[/b] » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:23 am
The Naim forum is rather more than OCD. It's a full to the rafters, completely bonkers, lunatic asylum, as this thread illustrates:

http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/i-can ... estination

I have some funds available to upgrade my system. I am 50 years old and would hope to be done with buying hi-fi for at least the near future, maybe for the rest of my life. Over several months I have been auditioning various Naim gear at home and although I started out listening to the less expensive boxes I was soon tempted by the improvement on offer further up the Naim ladder.

I have settled on two options I can afford :-

Very Good System :- NDX, 282, SCDR, 250.2

Ultimate System :- NDS, 555, 252, SCDR, 250.2

(I will be keeping my Spendor A9 speakers)

Taking account of the sale of my existing gear, and some negotiation with my dealer, the 'Very Good System' will require an additional investment of about £10k, and the 'Ultimate System' about £20k.

Considering my age I am sorely tempted to go for the 'Ultimate System' and am happy with spending that amount of money.

However - looking at that configuration - it would seem to me that a slight weakness or 'system synergy issue' could be corrected / improved by swapping out the 250.2 for a 300. However I just can't stretch the extra few grand to make it happen.So I guess I have a slight concern that I am coming so close to musical nirvana but not quite achieving it.Or in other words - compromising the SQ of the superlative components earlier in the signal path by the 250.2, thus not achieving complete vfm on the NDS/555/252. I would hate to spend all that money and have a nagging doubt that I haven't quite 'done the job'.

Am I worrying too much ?

(I hasten to add that I haven't auditioned the 300 so have no subjective evaluation on what I would be missing out on)

Thanks for any input / comments ...

F**k me! Why is no one telling him that he could ditch the whole f**king lot, Naim and Spendors and all and from the sale of that lot get a system that will sound better than anything on offer at any price at his Naim dealers?

Why is no one saying to him "I'll come to the dealers with you, with my system that cost c£1000 and we'll compare that to the best that Naim can offer."?

Why is no one saying "Hang on a moment. You're thinking of spending £10k or more. That's a huge amount of money. For less than that you should have a system that sounds about as good as any on the planet."?

Of course, there could be another Lindasyt, 'hifi enthusuast' in the UK that likes to exhibit at and visit Scalford Hi-Fi Show, if there is, I take it all back.

Goodnight.

 

[Vladimir]

And the first reply in that original Naim thread:

Although recommended for aeons at the moment I don't think the source first is necessarily the way to go.
Things are changing very rapidly in the streaming/DAC world. Just look at the secondhand prices at the moment of Linn DS/1 not to mention CD 555( sob sob!)

I would recommend you get the best out of the amplification with a 552/300 system and leave the ultimate source for a few years until a clear path is obvious.

Replace Naim model names with Operating Thetan levels and all the "clear path" prophecy becomes understandable. That poor chap may have been burned at the stake for making slight reasonable sense about digital. *biggrin*

 

[Joe Cox]

The accuracy of headphones drove me on to find a speaker system that could compete and when I found it, it was one of the most glorious moments in my life.

A somewhat 'over-the-top' reaction to just finding a hi-fi you really liked.

Your ignorant and small minded comment is a sad reflection on you Chebby. I feel sorry for you.

When are the forum moderators going to step in and stop these overly common trollish and personally insulting posts from the AVI gang?

If it's "never" that's OK. At least we would all know where we stand then.

Yes, let's try to avoid personal insults.

 

[The_Lhc]

Look up the definition of Internet Troll on Wikipedia.

Trouble is, the current usage of "troll" is a million miles away from what the practice originally meant, it wasn't about saying the most outrageous, disgusting thing you can think of, any fuckwit can (and does) do that, true trolling was a subtle art, joining a forum and making posts which appear to be perfectly believable but designed to draw people into an argument by being just dumb enough to make people think you're serious, without making it completely obvious that you aren't, at least until someone has flipped their wig, at which point you can start making your viewpoint more and more ridiculous, whereupon much slapping of foreheads is heard across the land as people realise they've been completely suckered in.

That sort of trolling was pretty entertaining to watch if you twigged early enough, it wasn't the idiotic nonsense that people call trolling now, that's just an insult to the term...

 

[cheeseboy]

That sort of trolling was pretty entertaining to watch if you twigged early enough, it wasn't the idiotic nonsense that people call trolling now, that's just an insult to the term...

Trolls just ain't what they used to be anymore eh! I my day etc....

 

[The_Lhc]

That sort of trolling was pretty entertaining to watch if you twigged early enough, it wasn't the idiotic nonsense that people call trolling now, that's just an insult to the term...

Trolls just ain't what they used to be anymore eh! I my day etc....

Quite. The point I forgot to make in the previous post is that Chebby is not a troll, not by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Vladimir]

Very artistic.

 

[Covenanter]

The accuracy of headphones drove me on to find a speaker system that could compete and when I found it, it was one of the most glorious moments in my life.

A somewhat 'over-the-top' reaction to just finding a hi-fi you really liked.

Your ignorant and small minded comment is a sad reflection on you Chebby. I feel sorry for you.

When are the forum moderators going to step in and stop these overly common trollish and personally insulting posts from the AVI gang?

If it's "never" that's OK. At least we would all know where we stand then.

Yes, let's try to avoid personal insults.

I'll stick to general insults in the future.

Chris

 

[The_Lhc]

Very artistic.

Exactly!

 

[ID.]

Very artistic.

Exactly!

I only read it long after it had all gone down, but it had me in stitches.

 

[Joe Cox]

I'll stick to general insults in the future.

*good*

 

[Thompsonuxb]

David......

The principle behind those 2 diagrams is the same.

Difference being were the signal is split or the placement of the crossover.

Look at them. To suggest one config is superior to the other is silly.

Its just two design philosophlies being executed.

I know you Have a thing of passive being inferior - but a single box, solid state integrated amp will perform equal to any 'active' system you may care to pit it against.

But the active system will lack the flexibility of improving your amplification if you choose to do so.

And please spare me ant talk of 'in an active system the amps are designed to optimal specification to work with the speakers.'

I know, it's another blind test challenge isn't it?

Look at and compare these diagrams, it might help.

 

[davedotco]

David......

The principle behind those 2 diagrams is the same.

Difference being were the signal is split or the placement of the crossover.

Look at them. To suggest one config is superior to the other is silly.

Its just two design philosophlies being executed.

I know you Have a thing of passive being inferior - but a single box, solid state integrated amp will perform equal to any 'active' system you may care to pit it against.

But the active system will lack the flexibility of improving your amplification if you choose to do so.

And please spare me ant talk of 'in an active system the amps are designed to optimal specification to work with the speakers.'

I know, it's another blind test challenge isn't it?

Look at and compare these diagrams, it might help.

But then again, clearly it might not, oh well........*dash1*

You need to investgate the difference between active and passive crossovers and also the effect that passive crossovers have on the signal being sent to the speaker from the amplifier.

Take your time.

 

[The_Lhc]

David......

The principle behind those 2 diagrams is the same.

Difference being were the signal is split or the placement of the crossover.

Look at them. To suggest one config is superior to the other is silly.

Its just two design philosophlies being executed.

I know you Have a thing of passive being inferior - but a single box, solid state integrated amp will perform equal to any 'active' system you may care to pit it against.

But the active system will lack the flexibility of improving your amplification if you choose to do so.

And please spare me ant talk of 'in an active system the amps are designed to optimal specification to work with the speakers.'

I know, it's another blind test challenge isn't it?

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!