Volume adjustment on ADMs

[matthewpiano]

A quick question for owners of the AVI ADM9.1RS. Is there a master volume control on the main speaker (as opposed to the slave) and, if so, does it track accurately (balance-wise) at low volumes?

Might seem like a silly question but it would be important to me.

 

[Overdose]

The only volume control, is the remote conrolled one in the master speaker, ie where the preamp is.

I have not noticed any tracking issue and do not know why there would even be one. if you ask on the AVI forum, you might get some sort of technical answer, but I don't know how you would test for any tolerance deviation unless you used a mono track and used a sound meter to compare left and right channel outputs.

I haven't noticed any issues though, but then it's not something I'd even considered.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

[LINK REMOVED - house rules]

 

[richardw42]

Volume done by the remote control.

Seems to track very well at all volumes.

The 40s have a display on front of master. The 9s don't.

For info.

My 9s volume is controlled by my AVR as they are connected via the pre outs.

PI use the remotes on the 40s, or if I'm feeling lazy and can't be arsed to look for the remote, I'll used the volume control on the Sonos.

EDIT too late

 

[matthewpiano]

The only volume control, is the remote conrolled one in the master speaker, ie where the preamp is.

I have not noticed any tracking issue and do not know why there would even be one. if you ask on the AVI forum, you might get some sort of technical answer, but I don't know how you would test for any tolerance deviation unless you used a mono track and used a sound meter to compare left and right channel outputs.

I haven't noticed any issues though, but then it's not something I'd even considered.

Thanks Overdose. Its something I have experienced on one or two integrated amplifiers, where at lower volumes the balance has been slightly skewed to one side. I've found it really annoying in the past.

I'm going to be saving up over the next 6-12 months and the 9.1s are a strong contender as a fit and enjoy set-up (pending hearing a pair of course).

 

[Overdose]

I would imagine that any biasing would be checked prior to shipping, but then I'd expect similar quality control from those integrated amps you mentioned. Is it something that could/would drift over time?

 

[matthewpiano]

I would imagine that any biasing would be checked prior to shipping, but then I'd expect similar quality control from those integrated amps you mentioned. Is it something that could/would drift over time?

Generally its something I've heard when the amps in question were new. Some of the older Cambridge Audio amps were particularly bad for it, including the first Azur models, though they've rectified it on the current range. I don't have the technical knowledge to understand why it happens.

 

[Dan Turner]

Channel imbalance is something I've noticed on all amps I've owned with an 'analogue' volume control (I.e. a potentiometer controlled by a knob)*, but none of the ones I've owned with a 'digital' volume control, ADMs included ( no idea how they work, but they have a digital display and work in definitive steps).

* to varying degrees - Arcam Alpha 8: very bad. Naim Supernait: hardly noticeable, but there at the very lowest volumes.

 

[Phileas]

I believe the ADMs use an op-amp for volume control.

From Ash of AVI:

"The ADMs use what is referred to as a stepped analogue attenuator, which also doubles up as a preamp. It is superior in every respect to an old motorised pot and does away with a separate preamp, so saves the customer lots of money."

Also:

"We control volume with a stepped analogue attenuator because it has more accurate channel balance, greater dynamic range and far greater reliability."

I've just done a test on both of my ADMs and I can't detect any obvious problem at very, very low volume.

 

[BenLaw]

Well who'd have thought that after five and a half years and nearly 7000 posts Matthew was just a sleeper shill for AVI all along?

 

[Phileas]

Well who'd have thought that after five and a half years and nearly 7000 posts Matthew was just a sleeper shill for AVI all along?

 

[BigH]

I play mine at low volume late at night there is no difference I can tell between the 2 sides re volume, I think because there is an amp for each driver then its different from an int. amp. One thing you will notice is the more precise sounstaging on ADMs than a pasiive set up and a wider sweet spot as well.

The volume control is very small steps so you can adjust it finely, not sure if its 0.5dbs or 1dbs steps but its a subtle change between each one.

 

[matt49]

I believe the ADMs use an op-amp for volume control.

From Ash of AVI:

"The ADMs use what is referred to as a stepped analogue attenuator, which also doubles up as a preamp. It is superior in every respect to an old motorised pot and does away with a separate preamp, so saves the customer lots of money."

Also:

"We control volume with a stepped analogue attenuator because it has more accurate channel balance, greater dynamic range and far greater reliability."

I've just done a test on both of my ADMs and I can't detect any obvious problem at very, very low volume.

There's nothing new about stepped analogue attenuators. They're a traditional audiophile solution to the problem of adjusting volume while introducing a minimum of distortion, though of course they do still introduce some distortion because they employ resistors. Their other drawback is that they're "stepped", i.e. there isn't a smooth gradation between volume settings.

 

[lecson]

The volume adjustment in the ADMs is electronic and therefore more accurate than the standard manual potentiometer used in many integrated amplifiers. It gets around the problem of channel tracking going out the window at low volumes.

You can check this problem for yourself by playing a mono CD (which is easy to make from stereo tracks using a program such as Audacity). Through an integrated amplifier I once had, the solo singer wandered left and right as I turned the volume control. It was particularly bad at low volumes and because the amplifier's CD input was too sensitive, the volume control was often turned down low in order to listen at normal volumes.

It' the reason CD attenuators are sometimes used and they helped sort the problem on my integrated amp.

 

[Phileas]

There's nothing new about stepped analogue attenuators.

I don't think that was implied.

Their other drawback is that they're "stepped", i.e. there isn't a smooth gradation between volume settings.

On the ADMs, the steps are 0.5dB which I find plenty fine enough.

Also, I'm confident any distortion introduced is far too little to worry about. 8)

 

[matt49]

Also, I'm confident any distortion introduced is far too little to worry about. 8)

Great, if that's what Ash tells you ...

 

[Overdose]

On the ADMs, the steps are 0.5dB which I find plenty fine enough.

For anyone concerned with such things, 0.5dB step change in volume is largely inaudible. Most peoples hearing would top out at 1dB step change in volume, so the individual step change would be inaudible to them, those very few with sensitive enough hearing might be able to detect a volume change below 1dB if they listen intently enough.

 

[Phileas]

Also, I'm confident any distortion introduced is far too little to worry about. 8)

Great, if that's what Ash tells you ...

Actually, it's what I told myself. :wall:

 

[matthewpiano]

Well who'd have thought that after five and a half years and nearly 7000 posts Matthew was just a sleeper shill for AVI all along?

Ha ha!! Just exploring my options. Until quite recently I would never have considered the ADMs because I was so focused on the whole audiophile dream. In my job I deal with one piano maker who takes the engineering side of design and manufacture very seriously and I have seen it pay dividends. Also, I've heard so much hifi kit in the last 5 years and very little of it has convinced me as a long term solution for enjoying the music. Consequently, it makes good sense to explore an alternative way of doing things with an open mind. I intend to save for fit and forget system later in the year and I am seriously contemplating the ADMs. Will need to hear them at some point but with no dealer in Lancashire/Manchester it will involve a trip.

 

[matt49]

Actually, it's what I told myself. :wall:

... with Ash's words

 

[Phileas]

Actually, it's what I told myself. :wall:

... with Ash's words

:quest:

 

[John Duncan]

Oh excellent, here goes my Sunday...

 

[bigboss]

Actually, it's what I told myself. :wall:

... with Ash's words

I don't think there's any need to needle it anymore, and turn another perfectly civil thread into an argument.

 

[matthewpiano]

Yes, lets keep it civil. I started the thread as perfectly reasonable enquiry and have had some great help so far.

 

[matt49]

... need to needle it ...

That's quite poetic. Very nice :cheers: