The thousand pound dac dilemma!

[shafesk]

Hello hi-fiers!

Well I think my setup is reaching it's completion, a beautiful 4 year journey through which I've saved, spent and enjoyed. I have almost reached a point where you start tweaking things, spending on mains etc just to get that last drop of performance out of my current system. I think it'll be wise for me to change the only "price-inappropriate" component in my system---the dac-magic. While I have no complains, I love the sound signature, I'm looking for more insight, I wanna hear everything my amp can possibly deliver to my speakers. So I have 1000 pounds to spend. I am tempted to go with the Audiolab dac or the Rega but what if I can spend more and get more? I am willing to spend every bit of the budget so I'm looking at the 1000 pound mark. Also note that brightness from the dac wouldn't be much of a problem as I have what I consider to be a warm setup. My priorities are detail and soundstaging and I would also like it if the dac was edging towards brightness as with my system it would lead to neutrality. Recommendations please!!!!!

 

[Jumping Jack]

If possible, you should audition the North Star Design Essensio (or the latest 'plus'-model): not very known but amazing stuff! Lots of details, very dynamic and transparant but with a nice low-end to it. And a lot of connection-possibilities (3x toslink, 2x coax, USB (up to 32bit/192kHz!))...

 

[Overdose]

I have heard several DACs and not head a great deal if anything between them, although to be fair, I have not heard any expensive DACs. I would suggest listening to the Benchmark as a, erm, benchmark.

Try to demo as many as you can, like all other equipment I guess, even bust the budget to see what you might be missing out on.

 

[drummerman]

I am in the camp (no jokes) of little money can get you a decent basic DAC these days. Spend more and nice things such as remote, Headphone amplifier and maybe even pre-amp facilities are present.

regards

 

[Anonymous]

I noticed you own a dacmagic. First of all I would try this with the dacmagic:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/ac-ac-fixed-voltage-high-current-power-supplies-240 [Order Code: L54BR]

It opens up the sound and makes it sound more balanced, slightly more detailed and smoother. A bargain PSU at the price.

If that doesn't satisfy you, I would recommend the Audiolab M-DAC. I have also home demoed the Rega Dac and the Musical Fidelity M1 Dac. I would avoid the Rega Dac as it sounds too warm and has an over the top bass.

The MF M1 dac is very good, detailed, open smooth with excellent treble quality without harshness, but you may prefer the slightly more neutral Audiolab M-dac. The M-dac is also very good. The audiolab is the best bet out the two if you are not happy with the PSU upgrade on the dacmagic.

I hope this helps. Please note I am not an expert. Its always best to find a local dealer who is willing to let you demo the MF dac and the Audiolab Dac.

 

[shafesk]

I am in the camp (no jokes) of little money can get you a decent basic DAC these days. Spend more and nice things such as remote, Headphone amplifier and maybe even pre-amp facilities are present.

regards

I was in the same camp too (no jokes ) but I came to believe that to show the difference between dacs one needs to have a revealing setup, if a system doesn't show much difference between sources then it is pointless. Fortunately with my amp upgrade this is not the case anymore so I think a dac upgrade is due

 

[drummerman]

I am in the camp (no jokes) of little money can get you a decent basic DAC these days. Spend more and nice things such as remote, Headphone amplifier and maybe even pre-amp facilities are present.

regards

I was in the same camp too (no jokes ) but I came to believe that to show the difference between dacs one needs to have a revealing setup, if a system doesn't show much difference between sources then it is pointless. Fortunately with my amp upgrade this is not the case anymore so I think a dac upgrade is due

Fair enough but be aware that as for basic DAC's, most chip manufacturers now sell DAC boards which pretty much do everything ... for a few pounds. Anything else (some) expensive DAC products include is the manufacturers idea of how they should sound and nicely machined box. Some add elaborate tube circuits, others introduce output stages which they think are benefitial, sometimes to the detriment of neutrality. Some people like that of course. The problem is that even relatively cheap DAC's measure very well and some expensive ones not so. A very interesting comparison (of cd players) was conducted and a cheap Cambridge Audio player measured as well as the most expensive one many times its cost.

regards

 

[Craig M.]

i think your mind seems like it is already made up and you actually want to spend as much as you can, however, i agree with drummerman - there isn't any need to spend much on a dac. this is coming from someone who has spent around £6k on dacs! i also don't think you will get the tonal change you want from a dac. this isn't because my kit isn't revealing enough - it is about as revealing as you can get. Almaatakz who owns atc scm50s (circa £10k) also seems to think it isn't worth spending much on a dac, as he couldn't really hear any difference between a squeezebox touch and his benchmark dac. if your kit is too warm, then you have probably bought an amp that is either rolled off at the top, or isn't gripping your speakers tightly enough and the bass is too loose. if you are still using cd's, then i recommend you try to get a 2nd hand roksan kandy L.lll cdp as that is a bright/lean cdp and might do the job, but i've never heard a dac with the same tonal balance. if you haven't already done so, pulling your speakers well out from walls and toeing them in to point at you might give you a brighter sound.

 

[Ajani]

Hello hi-fiers!

Well I think my setup is reaching it's completion, a beautiful 4 year journey through which I've saved, spent and enjoyed. I have almost reached a point where you start tweaking things, spending on mains etc just to get that last drop of performance out of my current system. I think it'll be wise for me to change the only "price-inappropriate" component in my system---the dac-magic. While I have no complains, I love the sound signature, I'm looking for more insight, I wanna hear everything my amp can possibly deliver to my speakers. So I have 1000 pounds to spend. I am tempted to go with the Audiolab dac or the Rega but what if I can spend more and get more? I am willing to spend every bit of the budget so I'm looking at the 1000 pound mark. Also note that brightness from the dac wouldn't be much of a problem as I have what I consider to be a warm setup. My priorities are detail and soundstaging and I would also like it if the dac was edging towards brightness as with my system it would lead to neutrality. Recommendations please!!!!!

If you really intend to use up your budget, I'd suggest getting one of the Benchmark DAC1 models and not worrying about DAC upgrades again.

 

[drummerman]

From what I've read I'd probably agree. If you must spend that much on a DAC, Benchmark is almost universally recommended.

Here is a link to Nvavguy's blog. Worth reading for more than just DAC's;

http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/

regards

 

[Ajani]

From what I've read I'd probably agree. If you must spend that much on a DAC, Benchmark is almost universally recommended.

Here is a link to Nvavguy's blog. Worth reading for more than just DAC's;

http://nwavguy.blogspot.co.uk/

regards

:rofl:

I love the use of the word "almost". That is so true. The Benchmark DAC1 is arguably the most raved about product in HiFi (raved about by HiFi consumers and reviewers across the globe as well as by pro audio users and reviewers across the globe). Yet, even with all that there are persons who will say that the Benchmark sounds bad, is overated or that they couldn't hear any difference between it and a ultra cheap DVD player. Such is HiFi. Nothing is universally loved.

I really like my DAC1 (even if it doesn't stay in my main system it will at least be on my computer rig).

 

[CnoEvil]

IMO. The Audiolab is probably the best Dac under £1k, but if it was my money, it would be spent on a Linn Sneaky!

 

[busb]

I'm not sure if this is a consensus but some owners of the Benchmark are saying that the audiolab M-DAC is better. Although I own an M-DAC, I've never heard the Benchmark so cannot comment. All I can say is that the M-DAC was well worth the £525 it cost me & would consider it a bargain even at £599!

 

[Shanka]

Hi,

As part of my journey on going digital I have recently had a few demo's of Dac's and of the four I toyed with I found MF M1 dac very disappointing,very recessed sound, no fun at all which was a shame esp. as tried it more than once.

I found very little to choose between the Rega and Audiolab Mdac but to my ears the Audiolab shaded it which was a suprise as generally I have not enjoyed their products but thought the mdac was slightly more open but both good,also the'benefit' of a display and headphone socket help.

Just to confuse matters and myself the best dac I heard was the MF Clic, a streamer I know, but especially as the M1 dac was such a let down.
This happened on two seperate listenings as I thought something might have been askew the first time.

I have not heard benchmark, still to do the Sneaky ,Squeezebox and now have discovered Sonos which may offer a better solution for me but will cover this little journey in another thread soon.

Good luck in your hunt. :cheers:

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, spend £500 or £600 on a Rega DAC or M-DAC and rest on Tellerium speaker cables.

 

[shafesk]

If possible, you should audition the North Star Design Essensio (or the latest 'plus'-model): not very known but amazing stuff! Lots of details, very dynamic and transparant but with a nice low-end to it. And a lot of connection-possibilities (3x toslink, 2x coax, USB (up to 32bit/192kHz!))...

Interesting choice, do you own this particular dac? I'm quite curious to know as this isn't one of the usual suspects

 

[shafesk]

Thank you for the suggestions, I have all of these dacs in mind but they are not close to 1000 pounds....I feel spending the extra 500 or so should make a lot of difference, even if it doesn't in my current system it'll future proof my system for all the amp and speaker changes to come.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Hello hi-fiers!

Well I think my setup is reaching it's completion, a beautiful 4 year journey through which I've saved, spent and enjoyed. I have almost reached a point where you start tweaking things, spending on mains etc just to get that last drop of performance out of my current system. I think it'll be wise for me to change the only "price-inappropriate" component in my system---the dac-magic. While I have no complains, I love the sound signature, I'm looking for more insight, I wanna hear everything my amp can possibly deliver to my speakers. So I have 1000 pounds to spend. I am tempted to go with the Audiolab dac or the Rega but what if I can spend more and get more? I am willing to spend every bit of the budget so I'm looking at the 1000 pound mark. Also note that brightness from the dac wouldn't be much of a problem as I have what I consider to be a warm setup. My priorities are detail and soundstaging and I would also like it if the dac was edging towards brightness as with my system it would lead to neutrality. Recommendations please!!!!!

I recently replaced a DacMagic after months of hunting around. I got my Moon 300D for £800 (mint condition) and its a stunner. You really will hear a big difference. Second hand hunting is a good idea. The 300D retails at £1350 and I've never seen it discounted.

 

[Shanka]

Maybe save the money and spend it on beer, sometimes that improves my hifi no end.
:cheers:
:cheers:
:cheers:

 

[drummerman]

Thank you for the suggestions, I have all of these dacs in mind but they are not close to 1000 pounds....I feel spending the extra 500 or so should make a lot of difference, even if it doesn't in my current system it'll future proof my system for all the amp and speaker changes to come.

Kind of a strange logic and an expensive road ahead ... hope it works out.

regards

 

[Ajani]

Thank you for the suggestions, I have all of these dacs in mind but they are not close to 1000 pounds....I feel spending the extra 500 or so should make a lot of difference, even if it doesn't in my current system it'll future proof my system for all the amp and speaker changes to come.

The Benchmark DAC1 is £895

&

The Benchmark DAC1 USB is £1150

 

[CnoEvil]

Thank you for the suggestions, I have all of these dacs in mind but they are not close to 1000 pounds....I feel spending the extra 500 or so should make a lot of difference, even if it doesn't in my current system it'll future proof my system for all the amp and speaker changes to come.

Kind of a strange logic and an expensive road ahead ... hope it works out.

regards

Not just a pretty face, I see!

IMO. The Audiolab holds its own on most of the Dacs up to £1k

 

[shafesk]

I don't see why it doesn't make sense that I want to spend all of my budget on a dac and not get something I would have to upgrade later and I know no matter how good the dac is I will always wonder what I would have gotten if I just spent the extra money, this dac is for the next 5 years, I'm going cold turkey on my hifi dealer

 

[drummerman]

And why not if it makes you happy. Thats what it is all about. Need a new wig ...

regards

 

[shafesk]

Hello hi-fiers!

Well I think my setup is reaching it's completion, a beautiful 4 year journey through which I've saved, spent and enjoyed. I have almost reached a point where you start tweaking things, spending on mains etc just to get that last drop of performance out of my current system. I think it'll be wise for me to change the only "price-inappropriate" component in my system---the dac-magic. While I have no complains, I love the sound signature, I'm looking for more insight, I wanna hear everything my amp can possibly deliver to my speakers. So I have 1000 pounds to spend. I am tempted to go with the Audiolab dac or the Rega but what if I can spend more and get more? I am willing to spend every bit of the budget so I'm looking at the 1000 pound mark. Also note that brightness from the dac wouldn't be much of a problem as I have what I consider to be a warm setup. My priorities are detail and soundstaging and I would also like it if the dac was edging towards brightness as with my system it would lead to neutrality. Recommendations please!!!!!

I recently replaced a DacMagic after months of hunting around. I got my Moon 300D for £800 (mint condition) and its a stunner. You really will hear a big difference. Second hand hunting is a good idea. The 300D retails at £1350 and I've never seen it discounted.

Thank you Gerrard, thats the kind of thing I'm looking for....please let me know how you feel the sound signature is, unfortunately I might have to buy blind.