What does a subwoofer add to the music ?

[Rui]

Please.... No!
It's bad enough when just one neighbor has one, we don't need one in every home. 50 - 150Hz bass throbbing down the entire terrace all hours of the day creating more noise pollution. They need to pass a law against it.
Just like all those abandoned and rusting satellite dishes that adorn 10 million or more homes all over the country that create visual pollution.

isn´t noise polution but a soul warmer

 

[Jasonovich]

What does a subwoofer add to the music ?

Shure more and deeper bass thats obvious,besides that what does a subwoofer add to the music ?

If i where to add a subwoofer to my system i wouldn't buy anything expensive, i don't want boomy bass that makes my shelf in my kitchen rattle (i wanna hear it more than feeling the bass)

I would like a little more extension (if i add a subwoofer to my system, more than bass in a car kind of bass) and more high end feeling as when listen to big floorstand speakers that has a clean deep bass without sounding boomy


No matter how loud i try to play, my tius ez don't make my shelf in my kitchen Shake, Rattle and Roll, they don't go depper then 57 hz at -3 db , -11-12db at 40hz so 40-45hz -3d shouldn't be difficult to acheive

I suspect other commentators may have mentioned it and apologies in any overlaps, but essentially the subwoofer should be invisible or fully integrated with the front speakers.
It's a trial and error process in terms of adjusting the frequency cut off, what is the best setting for your setup? This is usually down to room acoustics and speaker positioning.

Old school HiFi enthusiasts would argue, if your speakers perform adequately in respect of the low frequencies, then why do you need a subwoofer? I took this as de'facto but I have come round to the idea that a subwoofer is more than just bloating up the low frequencies, it's function primarily is to take off the weight from the speakers, shifting the low frequencies across to the subwoofer allows the speakers to breathe better when handling the midrange and upper frequencies.
It's not always seamless, a little bit of tinkering should see you through.

 

[gasolin]

shifting the low frequencies across to the subwoofer allows the speakers to breathe better when handling the midrange and upper frequencies.

BUT not many amps has a high pass filter for the front speakers

Including mine

I would love one with my system as i think the wiim amp has but chose the mission 778x over the wiim amp

 

[Jasonovich]

BUT not many amps has a high pass filter for the front speakers

Including mine

Yes that's true.
However, if the amp has a Lfe (Low Frequency Effect) or a spare rca output, and, if the subwoofer is studio type, though not necessarily, some domestic HiFi SW's will also have this functionality, my Dali's have it I think(?), anyway, you can do the frequency adjustments via the Subwoofer, as per my Focal's below.




Thank you, you made me look, my grandson has been twiddling the dials again!

 

[Rui]

nice photos, a power cable from accuphase and a anyversary edition with balanced in/outputs, i have seen two sub-woofers in some systems bellow some modern litle but powerfull speakers it must deliver great sound

but i´ve got many 70´s speakers that use Umongus woofers( so sub not), like some studer/revox from 81/84 and cerwin vega from the 90´s(the biggest ones they had) ,no need but i´m always in for a lot more bass,

i also use the tone controls and loudness and a 33 frequency equalizer each channel(todays seems heresy ,then it was the best audiophile system , sounds perfect)

with a Phase Linear series two system , the turntable is a PLC-590 from Pioneer series 20 with a AT arm and MC cartridge also from AT but now i can´t remenber the name of the cartridge, also have a PD-7300 cd player from Pioneer in my listening room 1 recentelly re-installed system,

the components brands are Studer/Revox, Phase Linear, Technics , Pioneer, Cerwin Vega nice set up,

this weekend i put to play the last Tool LP it was very detailed and loud , tempest is my favorite song or is it7empest?, my neighboors down the street thought so, one told me the sound was crystal clear in any room of his house,

but they liked when i put to play a compilation of re-recorded songs from Astor Piazolla when he was still playing, this at 23h when tempearture droped from 27 degress slowly to 13 degrees celsius ,this at 4 in the morning,

sometime ago i noticed that litle speakers have a very good sound if one knows what he´s buying but big boxy speakers are more compatible as any type of music sound good with them which doesn´t happen with smallest speakers,

i have both types, i do like some Tannoy Sixies the 605 also the Mission 761 and the SB-F3 from Technics but being 79 speakers they do sound perfect with any receiver or integrated amplifier from the 70´s max input 90watts , output 60watts,

also the yamaha studio monitors and JBL litle monitors from second half of the 80´s as the others i refer to, being litle

 

[AJM1981]

Yes that's true.
However, if the amp has a Lfe (Low Frequency Effect) or a spare rca output, and, if the subwoofer is studio type, though not necessarily, some domestic HiFi SW's will also have this functionality, my Dali's have it I think(?), anyway, you can do the frequency adjustments via the Subwoofer, as per my Focal's below.
View attachment 7059

View attachment 7060

Thank you, you made me look, my grandson has been twiddling the dials again!

I see that this one has a consumer-friendly polarity label in communication (normal and inverse). The inverse one is used for when the sub is behind the listener. A reviewer online made a blunder stating that he expected to see some more options besides the 0 and 180 degrees setting in polarity. Don't ask, don't tell..

 

[Stuart83]

Not gonna happen at all, 100% shure of that

How the hell am i gonna connect it ? Preout ? How is the sound then going back in my amp ? what if i use bt, turntable,digital in

If i use usb in on my amp (pc) how am i gonna send the sound from the EQ to the amp, i can only use usb, nothing else at the same time that sends sound into the amp, that gives my amp sound other then what is comming in from my pc thru usb

Seems like my amp performans pretty good, menaing the speakers are 4-5 ohm at a wide frequency so the load on my amp is more 4 ohm than 8 ohm (bass and midrange)

I can play fairly loud but the bass extention is not that low around 55-60hz at -3db, that is fine but if you want bass extension (more than techno loud deeper bass, deeper and much loud bass under 55-50hz) an eq won't do it at all

My speakers can play loud and if i had to adjust the bass (under 50hz) the woofer,bass would move alot when trying to play edm and no more than medium loud, it would so much lower the max spl, how much i can raise the volume before it can't do more

By some magic IT WON'T play the same max spl if you trying to make a bookshelf speaker with a 5.25" bass,midrange have a lower bass extention where it might have -3 db at 40 hz then 57 hz

Many say get a subwoofer that goes down to under 30hz, 40 hz might be great for a bookshelf speaker but for a subwoofer unlees it's one of those how can play insanly loud 40hz -3db is not impressive, shure if it's a 5" woofer but then it might not play loud, 18" it might play super loud but you would miss some bass extention realtive to it's size, where one that goes under 30hz might still be able to play 10-20 db louder then you need,like to listen to


A frequency of 55Hz to 22kHz (the lowest note on a piano is 27hz)
Lower bass being anything below 40hz.
This is an impressive number for small speakers even lower than some floorstanders.

Not really impressive, all at -3db

Dynaudio emit m10 50hz

Dali Oberon 1 51 hz

ARGON AUDIO FORUS 5 50hz

B&W 607 S3 52hz -6db 40hz

I wasn't aware of your connections to a pc etc but any usual anciliries connect via simply looping the equaliser in.

I thought maybe further enhancing the bass a tad might get you where you want to be given the speaker specs (given the lack of tone controls)

I'm glad you took notice of the wharfdale SW 150 suggested either prior or during the comment.
I was pointing towards the frequency response possible within your existing speakers and boosting them a little as one used to with tone controls.

Unfortunately I'm well aware there's no magic involved with EQ and speakers but it can provide the missing rudimentary tone controls not inclusive to some amps (a thing I miss) especially with the headache I find Dirac when just wanting to quickly add or remove a little bass.

I hinted towards spl in another comment and the obvious failings of smaller speakers to supply the movement of air a bigger (usually floorstander) can.
But it's definitely true a heightened bass setting can cause a higher spl via movement on a smaller speaker which without common sense can lead to damage.

As said it was just a suggestion without knowing your connected anciliries under the assumption you were connecting to the usual things.

The suggestion was to get you the type of sharpened bass without the type you mention not liking.
Incase like me you weren't sold I'm the idea of EQ I suggested a known good budget subwoofer.

They do go cheaper when they pop up on ebay.

 

[Jasonovich]

I see that this one has a consumer-friendly polarity label in communication (normal and inverse). The inverse one is used for when the sub is behind the listener. A reviewer online made a blunder stating that he expected to see some more options besides the 0 and 180 degrees setting in polarity. Don't ask, don't tell..

I had absolutely no idea what the inverse button was used for. Thanks bud 😊👍

 

[gasolin]

i have a little question about my amp,subwoofer i wanna hear if you can help me with

My amp turns off after 1 hour but my subwoofer earlier, when i turn my amp of when my subwoofer is still on, it gives a deep thumb

Unless i leave both on, the sub aut turns of before the amp, if the sub have a deep thump when turning my amp on when it's set to aut on, i don't know

How do i avoid the thumb ? thurn it on,off manually (sub on last and sub off first)

 

[Jasonovich]

i have a little question about my amp,subwoofer i wanna hear if you can help me with

My amp turns off after 1 hour but my subwoofer earlier, when i turn my amp of when my subwoofer is still on, it gives a deep thumb

Unless i leave both on, the sub aut turns of before the amp, if the sub have a deep thump when turning my amp on when it's set to aut on, i don't know

How do i avoid the thumb ? thurn it on,off manually (sub on last and sub off first)

I assume your SW doesn't have standby option? Have you checked, everything is properly earthed?

 

[gasolin]

 

[Jasonovich]

View attachment 7063

I see you already have auto on. Oh fudge, dunno ha!
Maybe you can add a mains filter cleaner but don't want you to waste your money if it doesn't work.
I suspect someone on this forum with some electrical background will have some idea.

Are you using speaker level or line level input? Try alternating between the two, perhaps this might cure the problem? If it's line level try changing the interconnects.

Did the problem just occur? When was the last time it was operating OK without the thump and did you change something in your setup afterwards?

 

[gasolin]

i just got it

It did it the first time i turned my amp off when the sub was on aut

 

[Jasonovich]

i just got it

It did it the first time i turned my amp off when the sub was on aut

OK, try changing the interconnects (better quality and earthing), maybe this will make a difference?

 

[gasolin]

I already use pro interconnects

 

[Jasonovich]

I already use pro interconnects

Ah, fair point.
Domestic SW's, I do wished they had balanced input options like XLR's or TRS!!!

My Dali's F9 feeds off Denon AVR-2807 via single LFE jack, quiet as a mouse when everything is switched on. The gear is plugged into mains filtered extension lead.
You could try using single Left RCA cable instead of the pair?

This may possibly be inherent of the design? If you can get hold of a spare SW and see if the problem is replicated?
If it is within warranty, perhaps you can exchange it for another SW?

 

[gasolin]

It does it both ways with a different cable

I can try power cable 180 dregrees for the sub

Not shure i mentioned it but i bough a used subwoofer but i can try a different amp and a real subwoofer cable

 

[Jasonovich]

It does it both ways with a different cable

I can try power cable 180 dregrees for the sub

Not shure i mentioned it but i bough a used subwoofer but i can try a different amp and a real subwoofer cable

Yes worth trying, good luck.

 

[gasolin]

nothing with my

 

[Rui]

Hi, do not make hadache from some magazine measurements. Same was valid for my old Leedh Flirt columns. In theory. In practise, when combined with very good vacuum tube pre/power sound was amazing. Friend with Dynaudio Contour speakers was crying after comparison. Back to topic: characteristic of Triangle on hights is just characteristic- just to avoid shouty transistor amp with aggresive hights. Not so difficult. Reg low frequency set up: your small bookshelfs play well above some 70-80 Hz, not lover. You need cut between sub and speakers around 80Hz, not lover. But this you do not see in this "specialist" german Stereo mag. The best at the end is to try several cut out frequencies, move in steps by 2-3Hz. And listen. Listen the same 2-3 songs. And compare by your ear. Also position of sub matter a lot. In my case, both subwoofers are close to main speakers. Distance speaker-ear is nearly same like with main speakers. Reg loudness, start from low values and go up till sound is full and coherent. For this you do not need any measurement mic. It needs only a bit of training. Regards.

i always do the same i do not measure i do it by hearing and for many years i read about speakers instalation and i´m a equalizer expert as i also work with sound in outdoors/indoors concerts ,

so i have a general notion since 1983 of how to equalize and install speakers, as my first area of studies was electronics but in the 3rd year i change to informatic engeniering and i have to say that i didn´t lost those 3 years of knowlegde in electronics ,

only changed to informatic, as enterprises were paying a lot . the funny think ,related with audio is that i had good home equalizers but only in the 90´s when buying more cds i felt i needed a good equalizer as the better amplifiers and speakers i had,

the sources who sound better was the records, cassettes and reels also DAT´s for home listening ,the cds not even with what at the time was considered the best cd player a CEC belt driven ,were sounding very empty ,

the reason i for the first time installed a equalizer in my audio equipment and even more when i bought a late 80´s early 90´s complete high-end sound system for my home, but still have a room with very good 70´s equipment who always sounded beter than what i bought after 1980, when all brands decreased their equipment quality,

any good equipment from the 70´s tops any new equipment if working at 100% ,drivers in speakers mainly for mids and high´s need substitution if old like i own from late 60´s to 1982.

But i do like bass and all other frequencies so the idea of having subwoofers in stereo one under each speaker seems atractive to me,

the guys who bought electrostatic speakers , normally with Quad material for the first time after many years they will have good sound ,thanks to sub-woofers and rivers of money spent in mantaining those equipments

 

[Rui]

Not gonna happen at all, 100% shure of that

How the hell am i gonna connect it ? Preout ? How is the sound then going back in my amp ? what if i use bt, turntable,digital in

If i use usb in on my amp (pc) how am i gonna send the sound from the EQ to the amp, i can only use usb, nothing else at the same time that sends sound into the amp, that gives my amp sound other then what is comming in from my pc thru usb

Seems like my amp performans pretty good, menaing the speakers are 4-5 ohm at a wide frequency so the load on my amp is more 4 ohm than 8 ohm (bass and midrange)

I can play fairly loud but the bass extention is not that low around 55-60hz at -3db, that is fine but if you want bass extension (more than techno loud deeper bass, deeper and much loud bass under 55-50hz) an eq won't do it at all

My speakers can play loud and if i had to adjust the bass (under 50hz) the woofer,bass would move alot when trying to play edm and no more than medium loud, it would so much lower the max spl, how much i can raise the volume before it can't do more

By some magic IT WON'T play the same max spl if you trying to make a bookshelf speaker with a 5.25" bass,midrange have a lower bass extention where it might have -3 db at 40 hz then 57 hz

Many say get a subwoofer that goes down to under 30hz, 40 hz might be great for a bookshelf speaker but for a subwoofer unlees it's one of those how can play insanly loud 40hz -3db is not impressive, shure if it's a 5" woofer but then it might not play loud, 18" it might play super loud but you would miss some bass extention realtive to it's size, where one that goes under 30hz might still be able to play 10-20 db louder then you need,like to listen to


A frequency of 55Hz to 22kHz (the lowest note on a piano is 27hz)
Lower bass being anything below 40hz.
This is an impressive number for small speakers even lower than some floorstanders.

Not really impressive, all at -3db

Dynaudio emit m10 50hz

Dali Oberon 1 51 hz

ARGON AUDIO FORUS 5 50hz

B&W 607 S3 52hz -6db 40hz

normally the tape monitor or adaptor or processor depending on the brand if you have them output/input, but the speakers model have a very nice and clean bass ,only the amplifier for this matter might not be the better, cheap ones have them but some very expensive amplifiers or control amplifiers this more recent ones don´t have them, i have some B&W CDM7 and they sound amazing with a 1990, A-91D from Pioneer, but those are also very good

 

[Rui]

I concur.
I've used subs in smaller systems as mentioned but found large quality floorstander are exponentially better at achieving a clean accurate representation of wherever is being played.

Running subs seamless as people mention "as if they are not there" is rather pointless (with speakers that don't need any extra anything) which indeed brings in its own phasing issues etc.

From what I've gathered from prior comments the OP is using triangle Titus ez ?

A frequency of 55Hz to 22kHz (the lowest note on a piano is 27hz)
Lower bass being anything below 40hz.
This is an impressive number for small speakers even lower than some floorstanders.
I'm not sure what would be gained by a cheaper sub woofer trying to contend with already existing quality speakers.

It would normally bring into question the amp in which the mission 778x instantly negates.
(I demoed that amp at length and in line with the reviews heard it at being very capable)

Perhaps a quality equaliser as I bought for the opposite problem of too much bass would give you a way of elevating what your speakers are already "more" capable of.

I have a second vintage set up, the inclusive pioneer a-400 amp is without tone controls and would go that deep with QA 3050i's my jeans would vibrate making my legs itchy (no joke it would also bring things off the shelf) 😕
I've had large subs that can't replicate the inherint bass of a good lone pair of floorstanders.

The "Triangle Titus" speakers even go 3hz lower so your setup is certainly not lacking the capability to give you the vicerale bass your after.

I must admit it's been my experience that speakers with drivers below 6" are naturally never going to sound as naturally good with bass despite specs, I've never heard bass produced as good with smaller speakers bringing physics into play.
I find a sweet spot of 8" with floorstanders but that's personal preference, many with true 6" drivers can move enough air to land the police at your door.

I bought a quality equaliser (Bellari EQ 570) that does not negatively impinge on the signal which has a complete tear down review-

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/203557-bellari-eq570-analog-eq-measurements/

And further flying reviews

Bellari EQ570–WOW WOW WOW

Oh wow!! I just got the EQ570 a few minutes ago, and currently listening to music through it as I type this. I have goosebumps. My home office stereo system has been bugging me for years now—it doesn’t have the same uumph! factor as my main system. It lacks liveliness, and not as engaging...

audiosciencereview.com

I can say personally it's a good little solution for enhancing an (already existing) frequency response.

Maybe modifying what your system is already capable of.
But then again maybe like me when you get and itch to scratch your best off just scratching it and trying a sub woofer.

One of the best budget sub woofers I've heard is the "wharfdale SW-150".
I demoed a few in that category whilst looking for a sub to cover movie SFX in a second hifi.

Home review

A true champion of subwoofers, in terms of performance and price – it’s a quality piece of budget equipment

www.whathifi.com

It runs clean and powerful bass without sounding muddy.

I admit it remains off for most of the time as the floorstanders make it completely pointless but for movies it's good.

Despite going up a few notches for my main hifi and after many demoes at RS then purchasing a bigger and better sub woofer it also now after changing to large fyne audio floorstanders remains off.

Just a thought 💭

Nice subwoofer

 

[Stuart83]

i have a little question about my amp,subwoofer i wanna hear if you can help me with

My amp turns off after 1 hour but my subwoofer earlier, when i turn my amp of when my subwoofer is still on, it gives a deep thumb

Unless i leave both on, the sub aut turns of before the amp, if the sub have a deep thump when turning my amp on when it's set to aut on, i don't know

How do i avoid the thumb ? thurn it on,off manually (sub on last and sub off first)

The charge left in the capacitor discharges it's leftover current when the amps signal is switched on which causes the sub's speaker to make that thud/pop noise which is usually normal depending on equipment.

A good rule of thumb is to zero the amp volume before turning it on to avoid a similar pop mostly in older amps (and any others without a muting/protection circuit) which I still follow as I still own vintage gear etc.

It used to be recommended that amps should be volume zeroed and powered up last, and shut off first.
This was to prevent the speakers from being damaged by the capacitors residual charge, causing a loud "POP" very similar to what is going on with you sub woofer.

 

[Jasonovich]

The charge left in the capacitor discharges it's leftover current when the amps signal is switched on which causes the sub's speaker to make that thud/pop noise which is usually normal depending on equipment.

A good rule of thumb is to zero the amp volume before turning it on to avoid a similar pop mostly in older amps (and any others without a muting/protection circuit) which I still follow as I still own vintage gear etc.

It used to be recommended that amps should be volume zeroed and powered up last, and shut off first.
This was to prevent the speakers from being damaged by the capacitors residual charge, causing a loud "POP" very similar to what is going on with you sub woofer.

That's a sound analysis Stuart, makes sense, capacitors do store power. I can testify to that, on a few occasions I have accidently touched the solder on the capacitor, while assembling my PC motherboard, Kicks like a Mule!

 

[gasolin]

The charge left in the capacitor discharges it's leftover current when the amps signal is switched on which causes the sub's speaker to make that thud/pop noise which is usually normal depending on equipment.

A good rule of thumb is to zero the amp volume before turning it on to avoid a similar pop mostly in older amps (and any others without a muting/protection circuit) which I still follow as I still own vintage gear etc.

It used to be recommended that amps should be volume zeroed and powered up last, and shut off first.
This was to prevent the speakers from being damaged by the capacitors residual charge, causing a loud "POP" very similar to what is going on with you sub woofer.

Amp on first then subwoofer

Subwoofer off first and then amp

Then nothing from the amp that powers on,off will give the bass thum from my subwoofer being on (no woofer thumb from my tringle titus)

Have had active speaker and subwoofers thruhgout the last 10-15 years and must admit i hate not being able to turn on or off my amp or premap and everything shuts off (or on) by itself WITHOUT any woofer thumb

One in another thread said it could be because i only have a pre out not sw out and it's when the speaker relay (2-3 sec delay) turns on i get the subwoofer thumb