My new Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkII lacks bass. Now what?

[Steinwaytune]

You're right, Messiah, that's a wise advise!

 

[Steinwaytune]

Dear friends,

After re-reading all your recommendations above I've made a final decision.

First I checked the connection of the speaker's phase and alas, they were correctly connected, so that's not it.

In the end I don't have the guts to buy a subwoofer. I'm afraid it wouldn't really fit in the system and then I have 2 expensive devices that don't give what I hoped for...

Then, I listened to a CD with Beethoven sonata's (Pathétique, Waldstein, Appasionata) that I play myself (no, not on the CD...) and I was really disappointed about what I heard.
I am the lucky owner of a Steinway O grand piano and on my old Arcam that great sound was reasonably well reproduced with tone control: Bass +2, Treble 0. No extreme settings.
But on the Cambridge the high tones were too sharp on the highest notes (hadn't mentioned that before with other CDs) and the lack of bass was intolerable. It made me really sad. Repairing that with a subwoofer couldn't solve that problem...

Some of you suggested to return to Arcam. That made me search for... an Arcam A85 like I had (that idea was mentioned above too). And I found one.

So that's it. I have decided that the Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkII and Dali Oberon 5 are no good combination for me. And I fly back to what I really loved. I can turn in the Cambridge to the (Dutch) store where I bought it and get my money back.

I am really thankful for all your comments!

It made me replace my speakers totally and that makes them produce better sounds.

I learned a lot and that made it easier to decide what to do. And whenever this new old Arcam comes to it's end, I know a lot better now what to consider when buying a new amplifier.

Cheers from The Netherlands,
Lion

 

[gasolin]

Keeping your zensor 5 's ?

 

[Hifiman]

Dear friends,

After re-reading all your recommendations above I've made a final decision.

First I checked the connection of the speaker's phase and alas, they were correctly connected, so that's not it.

In the end I don't have the guts to buy a subwoofer. I'm afraid it wouldn't really fit in the system and then I have 2 expensive devices that don't give what I hoped for...

Then, I listened to a CD with Beethoven sonata's (Pathétique, Waldstein, Appasionata) that I play myself (no, not on the CD...) and I was really disappointed about what I heard.
I am the lucky owner of a Steinway O grand piano and on my old Arcam that great sound was reasonably well reproduced with tone control: Bass +2, Treble 0. No extreme settings.
But on the Cambridge the high tones were too sharp on the highest notes (hadn't mentioned that before with other CDs) and the lack of bass was intolerable. It made me really sad. Repairing that with a subwoofer couldn't solve that problem...

Some of you suggested to return to Arcam. That made me search for... an Arcam A85 like I had (that idea was mentioned above too). And I found one.

So that's it. I have decided that the Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkII and Dali Oberon 5 are no good combination for me. And I fly back to what I really loved. I can turn in the Cambridge to the (Dutch) store where I bought it and get my money back.

I am really thankful for all your comments!

It made me replace my speakers totally and that makes them produce better sounds.

I learned a lot and that made it easier to decide what to do. And whenever this new old Arcam comes to it's end, I know a lot better now what to consider when buying a new amplifier.

Cheers from The Netherlands,
Lion

I see you have made your decision but am surprised no one has asked more about what is upstream of your amp (unless I missed it). Do any of your sources, such as a streamer, have built in EQ? My old speakers are a little bass-light but I am able to compensate for this, either from the streaming software or, as I usually do, by using a Mojo 2 DAC’s lossless EQ fed from an unaltered digital source.
I realise your amp already has digital inputs and so the DAC route may be less appealing but EQing before the amp by any means may be another option.

 

[RoA]

Give the thing back and get something you actually like.

If it sounds 'too Hifi' it sounds too hifi. Ever noticed how enjoyable and musical something like a few little Sonos speakers sound?

As you like Arcam why not stick with the brand? Forget about youtube vloggers and mags/publications. They mostly serve their paymasters.

 

[R2D2]

Give the thing back and get something you actually like.

I think that is what he said he is going to do.

 

[RoA]

If it helps, I have an Arcam SA20. That's an old model now but the new ones will likely be better still. Class G, powerful and a full, warm bass. I also use a Cyrus ONE Cast ... same thing and an Audiolab 6000A, almost the same thing but it shines elsewhere more. All have good bass. I did have a Hegel H95 too but eventually sold that one on as it was inferior in some aspects, bass included.

 

[Deliriumbassist]

On the checking phase aspect - do NOT just go off of visual + to +, - to -. Actually switch one set around. In extremely rare cases, the cabling or the internal works of an amp or speaker may actually be done incorrectly - trust the ears, not the eyes.

 

[Steinwaytune]

@gasolin Keeping my Dali Oberon 5's, because they are great with the Arcam A85.

@Hifiman I only've got 2 'upstreamers': Arcam CD72 (21 years old, still shining) and a Bluesound Node 2i-6F3F. Both don't have any EQ-possibilities (if I haven't overseen this in the Node).

@RoA I'll go and get my new Arcam A85 occasion tomorrow. With that, I'm back at what I had and with what I was perfectly satisfied. With substantial, but fluently flexible basses once again. And although I know now by the Cambridge that the precision can even be better than on this Arcam, I'm sure I'll be perfectly content once more .

@Deliriumbassist That was an unexpected idea and I immediately checked it. But no, it's a pity, it's not that. I am even surprised that the basses do not seem to get worse - it doesn't even seem to matter if I change the plugs!?

 

[gasolin]

why change it if it aint broken, works for some

 

[Remco77]

Hello Steinway,

I think the position of your Oberon 5 loudspeakers can make a big difference.
You can try placing them closer to the back wall and/or corner,
Because the speakers have a rear-port they should produce more bass moving them towards the back wall/corner.
I'm not a huge fan of using tone-controls a lot.
To me this is a sign that the amp/speakers are a bad match and/or the room has bad acoustics.
Hope this will help you out.

With kind regards,
Remco

 

[Steinwaytune]

@Remco77 Thank you for your suggestion. I understand this thread is getting a long one. Somewhere up there I've already written that I tried several new places for the speakers and found out what is the best position. However, it did not do the job...
Also I wrote that the tone control I used was a little: bass +2, treble 0. So it's not just the tone control, but the whole system setup. The issue is that the CXA81 and my Dali Oberon 5's just make a match that is extremely detailed and clear, but really lacks bass, whatever position I place the speakers in.

 

[Remco77]

@Remco77 Thank you for your suggestion. I understand this thread is getting a long one. Somewhere up there I've already written that I tried several new places for the speakers and found out what is the best position. However, it did not do the job...
Also I wrote that the tone control I used was a little: bass +2, treble 0. So it's not just the tone control, but the whole system setup. The issue is that the CXA81 and my Dali Oberon 5's just make a match that is extremely detailed and clear, but really lacks bass, whatever position I place the speakers in.

Thanks for your reply,I understand you still lack bass in your system.
Spikes could be helpfull but I don't think this will solve everything.
Plus 2 tone control for bass isn't really extreme.
In my opinion this combination is not really your taste what concerns the amount of bass punch.
Every amp has it's pros and cons.
It cannot be the source you are using?

With kind regards Remco

 

[Remco77]

Following What Hi-Fi for a few years, I'm new to the forum.

This week I bought a Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkII amp to match my 9 month old Dali Oberon 5 speaker set. Its incredibly precise and open character is a real pleasure.

But... I now found out that this combination lacks bass a lot in my bigger room. My just passed away 21 years old Arcam A85 had the possibility to add bass, but the Cambridge doesn't have that.

So now I have a dilemma to solve:
- add a subwoofer (but which...?)
- sell the Oberon 5 and buy another pair of speakers (but which...?)
- return the Cambridge and swap it for like a Marantz PM7000N or an Arcam A15, or... another amp (but which...?)
- or...?
My budget is £ 1.250 max.

My gut feeling says: add a subwoofer of get heavier speakers, but I have no idea what is the best option... I would really appreciate your advice!

And try to give it some time,in my experience I have to listen at least 4 or 5 weeks to a system before I can really judge the way it sounds to me.
With 4 or 5 weeks I mean about 80 to 100 hours.
You can get used to a certain sound and dislike a different new one but that can change after a while.

 

[Steinwaytune]

And try to give it some time,in my experience I have to listen at least 4 or 5 weeks to a system before I can really judge the way it sounds to me.
With 4 or 5 weeks I mean about 80 to 100 hours.
You can get used to a certain sound and dislike a different new one but that can change after a while.

Fair enough. But I was I was constrained by a short deadline for return...

 

[Steinwaytune]

And no, it isn't the source. But sorry, that has all been covered in the posts above...

 

[Remco77]

That's understood(2 times)
It's always tricky partnering 2 systems even hearing them before in a Hifi-store

 

[Steinwaytune]

So true!

 

[RoA]

Arcam’s are great products. Glad you made a decision and long you may enjoy your choice.

New is not always better.

 

[gasolin]

and next model is not always better, just look at the q acoustics 3000i and 3000c reviews on whathifi

 

[Jcypser]

Hi I just recently paired a Rel T7x with my Cambridge CXA80 and what a massive improvement. If you could I highly recommend getting a demo with a sub.

 

[Steinwaytune]

Adding my new adventures on this subject: just when I wanted to leave to get the Arcam A85 occasion, I ghot a message from ther seller that he coudn't make the A85 work anymore...

So now I'm the owner of a new Arcam A15. It has more substence in bass and maybe a little less clarity, but still there is a lot less bass than on the old A85. In the hifi store it got clear to me why: both the Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkii and the Arcam A15 overwhelm the Dali Oberon 5 speakers with info. They are trying to keep up with the amp, but clearly cannot make it.

So there is my new quest now: new speakers...

 

[gasolin]

Budget for speakers ?

Dali opticoon 6 mk 2

Dali oberon 9

System, audio signature 40

Under £1250

The new kef Q Concerto meta or r3 meta

Fyne Audio F303i fyne 300 have great bass

 

[nopiano]

Adding my new adventures on this subject: just when I wanted to leave to get the Arcam A85 occasion, I ghot a message from ther seller that he coudn't make the A85 work anymore...

So now I'm the owner of a new Arcam A15. It has more substence in bass and maybe a little less clarity, but still there is a lot less bass than on the old A85. In the hifi store it got clear to me why: both the Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkii and the Arcam A15 overwhelm the Dali Oberon 5 speakers with info. They are trying to keep up with the amp, but clearly cannot make it.

So there is my new quest now: new speakers...

Honestly, neither amp ‘overwhelms’ a pair of Oberon 5, which have won countless awards and I’ve heard sounding excellent at shows. I heard them with Audiolabs, not much different to your Arcam.

Maybe they don’t quite suit your room, but they aren’t large. And that’s why you needed/preferred +2 on your bass control. I’ve a hunch that more naturally warm speakers, like the QA3050i, would have been better, especially once you moved to amplifiers without tone controls.

None of these will accurately reproduce the resonance of a grand piano, if that’s what you’re judging it by. But you should get a semblance of it, with careful placement.

 

[Steinwaytune]

Not scrambled all the money yet, but if I buy new speakers, it might be in the range of £ 1750 to £ 2500 for the pair. That should do for a really decent pair worth the Arcam A15, right?

I am not looking for a bass with extra power, but will try to find a well balanced bass in comparison with mids and treble. The title of this thread might be confusing, but that was about a nearly total lack of bass. OF which I know now that the speakers were the problem.

Honestly, neither amp ‘overwhelms’ a pair of Oberon 5, which have won countless awards and I’ve heard sounding excellent at shows. I heard them with Audiolabs, not much different to your Arcam.

Maybe they don’t quite suit your room, but they aren’t large. And that’s why you needed/preferred +2 on your bass control. I’ve a hunch that more naturally warm speakers, like the QA3050i, would have been better, especially once you moved to amplifiers without tone controls.

None of these will accurately reproduce the resonance of a grand piano, if that’s what you’re judging it by. But you should get a semblance of it, with careful p

@nopiano Fair enough. I see myself confronted with the growing pains of my system now. Bought the Oberon 5's with my Arcam A85 (of which I now think it even might have been an A80). A really good set together.
Now I moved up a big step to the Arcam A15 without tone controls (but a lot more beautiful clarity and detail), I have to face the fact that the speakers are too small for my room. But of course the amp is a good step forward and I certainly have no regrets. Growing up means that you burst out of your old clothes. New speakers are the new clothes here... So you're right: my Oberon 5's should not feel offended, I was too harsh there indeed .

And I do understand that I cannot compare a stereo set of this level with a Steinway grand. That was not fair to the Oberons (or any system under like at least a £ 50k) as well. So I now view the world with a more realistic perspective. And a serious thank you for guiding me here, @nopiano !