My new Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkII lacks bass. Now what?

[DougK1]

See if you can listen to some Harbeth P3ESR, small but wonderfully articulate speakers. My personal opinion is they produce excellent tight bass. A nice used pair could fit your budget, and they are generally well cared for by owners.

 

[gasolin]

Harbeth P3ESR is not loud with 83 db sensitivity

 

[plastic penguin]

I'm surprised by the lack of bass from the Oberon 5s. Generally, Dali have fantastic bass that's well defined. Certainly no lack of low end grunt with my Rubicon 2 and Leema Pulse.

I'm also a big fan of Arcam amps, had them for many years. For their respective price, great boxes.

Good luck with your new set-up.

 

[gasolin]

when i google them the bass is nothing special

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf5yUdz9IJ8

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD5r1B9dtrc


Didn't know the oberon 7's are so much bigger than the 5's, of course the 5's only have the same woofers as the oberon 1's and might not because of that has as much bass as the 7's wich has the same woofers as the oberon 3

 

[plastic penguin]

I

when i google them the bass is nothing special

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf5yUdz9IJ8

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD5r1B9dtrc


Didn't know the oberon 7's are so much bigger than the 5's, of course the 5's only have the same woofers as the oberon 1's and might not because of that has as much bass as the 7's wich has the same woofers as the oberon 3

View attachment 7753

Like the look of 5s. Nice and discreet. For obvious reasons I'm a big Dali fanboy. Flexible in terms of amp matching, they just tick all my boxes.

 

[matt49]

You're in the fortunate position of knowing what a real acoustic instrument sounds like -- your Steinway grand. So you have a good yardstick to measure your hifi against.

Your original problem was a lack of bass. Most domestic hifi systems don't reproduce low frequencies accurately. One reason for this is that to reproduce low frequencies accurately you need large woofers. I've had lots of speakers and my experience is that you can't get proper bass reproduction with anything less than a 12" (300mm) woofer. (OK, there are exceptions ...) That's a bit of a problem, because speakers with large woofers tend to be very expensive and also they're very large and don't fit into the size of room that most of us live in.

My recommendation for speakers would be: 1. try to find some second-hand studio monitors by JBL (you'll have to be very patient), or 2. the Wharfedale Lintons have had decent reviews (OK, only 8" woofers, but still ...), or 3. start saving up for some big expensive new speakers.

Another reason for problems with bass can be the size/shape of your room. There's some basic physics that determines how bass behaves in domestic spaces. All rooms are blighted by lumpy bass. It's a fact of life. But the worst effects of lumpy bass can be alleviated by getting a DSP unit. I think the best current combination of ease of use, price and functionality is the miniDSP Flex range of DSP units.

I have large speakers with 15" woofers. I use a DSP unit to correct their bass. The result is full, deep, and accurate bass right down to 20Hz. I think you would find that gets you as close as hifi can to the sound of your Steinway.

 

[gasolin]

I went to my local concert place,library,cinema yesterday (saturday)

Reharsal for a (for me) unknown danish band, 85-90 db peaks close to 100db at (my guess)10-12 meters distance, tight deep, loud,clean bass

F....... that was nice, do to vibrations, my room,no subwoofer, not enough money, im never getting that kind of bass and not from hifi speaker, unless i buy pa speakers, that kind of power would also in the long run be to much, i would to often play loud and with alot of bass

I won't bore you with a video from my yt channel but if you wanna have loud and clean bass you need power, either alot of wattage or high sensitive speakers

 

[miksko]

This Friday I visited a HiFi store to listen to my kind of speaker (Canton Reference 5) together with a subwoofer of their choice. I decided to listen to som classical organ music since that usually contains some subtle bass tones.
The two subs they recommended were JL Esub E112 and Rel S510 SHJ. My preference was the latter one, which slid into the sound without me noticing, while I could notice more easily when the first one kicked in. (That is of course something that can also be affected by the cross-fading level and is something you need to trim. )
What I’m trying to say is that a subwoofer is built to add what is often quite difficult to include in an ordinary loudspeaker, also in an expensive one. You might want to give it a try.

 

[abacus]

I went to my local concert place,library,cinema yesterday (saturday)

Reharsal for a (for me) unknown danish band, 85-90 db peaks close to 100db at (my guess)10-12 meters distance, tight deep, loud,clean bass

F....... that was nice, do to vibrations, my room,no subwoofer, not enough money, im never getting that kind of bass and not from hifi speaker, unless i buy pa speakers, that kind of power would also in the long run be to much, i would to often play loud and with alot of bass

I won't bore you with a video from my yt channel but if you wanna have loud and clean bass you need power, either alot of wattage or high sensitive speakers

Go for the larger ATC speakers with a sub if you want that kind of sound, (You will not get the bass you require in a smaller room without a sub due to its acoustics) and yes you will need a powerful amp to get the best out of them.
WARNING: The ATC speakers are designed to produce what is fed into them accurately, so if the mastering is bad you will know about it.

Bill

 

[matt49]

Go for the larger ATC speakers with a sub if you want that kind of sound, (You will not get the bass you require in a smaller room without a sub due to its acoustics) and yes you will need a powerful amp to get the best out of them.
WARNING: The ATC speakers are designed to produce what is fed into them accurately, so if the mastering is bad you will know about it.

Bill

I had the ATC SCM50 ASL. They now retail at £15,000.00. (I bought mine second hand and paid much less.) As for reproducing what’s fed into them, they’re -6db at 38Hz. So no, they don’t reproduce what’s fed into them unless you spend even more on a sub.

Not a realistic option.

 

[gasolin]

Go for the larger ATC speakers with a sub if you want that kind of sound, (You will not get the bass you require in a smaller room without a sub due to its acoustics) and yes you will need a powerful amp to get the best out of them.
WARNING: The ATC speakers are designed to produce what is fed into them accurately, so if the mastering is bad you will know about it.

Bill

As i wrote if i had that kind of power it would be to much, i would play loud to often with alot of bass

My point was it shure sounded good with that punchy bass but i don't have the money and room for it, back to op

Op needs alot of power to use for loud and clean bass but also quality speakers for good bass

If op don't want it naturally and deeper he shouldn't be affraid of getting a subwoofer and give it a little power or try to move the speakers closer to a corner

Other speakers would make a bigger difference, mabye also give better highs and mids, unless a sub is cheap i would god for better speakers, the new dali opticon 6 MK 2 has -3d under 30hz but they are not cheap

 

[Al ears]

As i wrote if i had that kind of power it would be to much, i would play loud to often with alot of bass

My point was it shure sounded good with that punchy bass but i don't have the money and room for it, back to op

Op needs alot of power to use for loud and clean bass but also quality speakers for good bass

If op don't want it naturally and deeper he shouldn't be affraid of getting a subwoofer and give it a little power or try to move the speakers closer to a corner

Other speakers would make a bigger difference, mabye also give better highs and mids, unless a sub is cheap i would god for better speakers, the new dali opticon 6 MK 2 has -3d under 30hz but they are not cheap

They are a lot cheaper than some of the speakers that have been mentioned in this thread so far....

 

[gasolin]

But much more expensive than a pair of oberon 5's

 

[gasolin]

Does the CAMBRIDGE AUDIO CXA61 BLACK EDITION have the same problem with bass ?

 

[Noddy]

My solution, to excessive bass in my case, is to apply a sloping EQ via my Wiim Mini. The Mini only cost £82 so I’m happy. However, the OP will have far better hearing than me if he plays piano. I’m sure a read a comment on a forum somewhere where a musician said that no system sounded accurate to his trained ears, so he just went with something that sounded pleasant. Hopefully the OP sorted his problem out.

 

[Steinwaytune]

@gasolin @abacus @matt49 @Al ears @Noddy Thank you for your reactions.
At the risk of being the most fickle member of this community I'll tell you my next step. Yes, yet a next step indeed.
But after two weeks of listening to my new combination Arcam A15, Dali Oberon 5 speakers and SVS SB-2000 Pro subwoofer I decided that the subwoofer is not ideal with these Dali speakers. Especially with classical music (but with rock as well) I heard a lot of unbalanced and sometimes rumbling transitions between tones just above and tones within reach of the sub. SVS has recommended settings for Dali Oberon 5, but those (and settings near those) did not fix this unbalance.
In the meantime I have become more forgiving to the Dali Oberon 5's, because I played the set a bit louder than before. That makes them sound better for sure. But I want to be satisfied with less loud music as well...
So now I have made a final decision: I've sent the subwoofer back (still in the trial-period, getting my money back). Then I went to a hifi studio and listened a long time to different speakers with my Arcam A15 amp. Nearly four hours of listening and comparing, supported by an understanding and skillful advisor lead me to the Sonus Faber Lumina V Amator speakers, trading in my Dali Oberon 5's.
In the studio I was quite exited. These speakers are very balanced, detailed, nowhere too sharp or too warm, with resilient (elastic, if you want), never booming bass reproduction, without any noticeable cross-over between the three-way speakers.
It may take a few weeks before they arrive. After that I will update how they sound in my room, if I can find the right words. More convinced now that I have made the right choice than with all described steps before in this thread. So in the end I followed the advise that many of you gave me before: get new speakers to solve the problem.
And given my budget, this is my last step anyway...

 

[gasolin]

Are your amp geting warm ?

The speakers goes down to under 3 ohm,

 

[Steinwaytune]

Yes, my A15 amp gets warm, but normal as my previous Arcam A80 has always done as well. I did not feel the amp after using the Sonus Faber Lumina V Amators.
Why did you ask this?

 

[gasolin]

I googled your speakrs and they go down to under 3 ohm

 

[nopiano]

Yes, my A15 amp gets warm, but normal as my previous Arcam A80 has always done as well. I did not feel the amp after using the Sonus Faber Lumina V Amators.
Why did you ask this?

I think @gasolin is trying to suggest that the lowest impedance your new speakers offer may be a bit demanding of your Arcam A15. But given the speakers highish sensitivity of 89dB I cannot imagine they’ll take too much driving from your Arcam.

You’ll doubtless enjoy the beautiful wood finish as much as their sound, and I say that as a Sonus faber owner (on my second pair since 1997).

 

[gasolin]

yes i had to google the sonus fabers and so a review, they can be a little demanding load for an amp and was currious if the amp can handle the load,if it gets hot

 

[Steinwaytune]

@gasolin @nopiano Both the shop advisor and I haven't mentioned any problem...

 

[Noddy]

I think @gasolin is trying to suggest that the lowest impedance your new speakers offer may be a bit demanding of your Arcam A15. But given the speakers highish sensitivity of 89dB I cannot imagine they’ll take too much driving from your Arcam.

You’ll doubtless enjoy the beautiful wood finish as much as their sound, and I say that as a Sonus faber owner (on my second pair since 1997).

My understanding, and someone should correct me if I am wrong, is that a low impedance somewhere in the frequency spectrum equates to a high current draw. That will come into play at higher volumes. I have a less powerful amp driving speakers with 85 dB sensitivity and a minimum impedance of 3 Ohms, so rather similar. It all sounds rather good, and I never really turn the volume up, except perhaps for classical pieces. I’ve noticed that in a demo, shops tend to keep the volume down. But I’ve been there with customers who listen at volumes that are painfully high.

Those speakers look nice.

 

[nopiano]

@gasolin @nopiano Both the shop advisor and I haven't mentioned any problem...

Sure. I was only answering your question as to why. And I added my reassurances, which maybe you didn’t pick up.

It’ll be fine!

 

[gasolin]

My understanding, and someone should correct me if I am wrong, is that a low impedance somewhere in the frequency spectrum equates to a high current draw. That will come into play at higher volumes. I have a less powerful amp driving speakers with 85 dB sensitivity and a minimum impedance of 3 Ohms, so rather similar. It all sounds rather good, and I never really turn the volume up, except perhaps for classical pieces. I’ve noticed that in a demo, shops tend to keep the volume down. But I’ve been there with customers who listen at volumes that are painfully high.

Those speakers look nice.

That's why home demo is very important, because it should sound good in your house,appartment, not just in the store and what ever they want us to listen to at there perfered listening level