My new Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkII lacks bass. Now what?

[Steinwaytune]

Following What Hi-Fi for a few years, I'm new to the forum.

This week I bought a Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkII amp to match my 9 month old Dali Oberon 5 speaker set. Its incredibly precise and open character is a real pleasure.

But... I now found out that this combination lacks bass a lot in my bigger room. My just passed away 21 years old Arcam A85 had the possibility to add bass, but the Cambridge doesn't have that.

So now I have a dilemma to solve:
- add a subwoofer (but which...?)
- sell the Oberon 5 and buy another pair of speakers (but which...?)
- return the Cambridge and swap it for like a Marantz PM7000N or an Arcam A15, or... another amp (but which...?)
- or...?
My budget is £ 1.250 max.

My gut feeling says: add a subwoofer of get heavier speakers, but I have no idea what is the best option... I would really appreciate your advice!

 

[jetblack9090]

Well the first step is to make that thing back to Richer sounds and throw it through the window😂

Well this is going to be a long replies so I do apologize but please stick with me.

Firstly there are a lot of amplifiers that when they are new, and I know this is controversial, but as they break in they develop Bass, or your perception of their bass or lack of it diminishes. I've experienced this personally and have seen this to be true.

Secondly if you like the overall sound of the Cambridge and the only niggle with it is the fact of the bass issue, then definitely adding a subwoofer will work and increase the amount of perceived Bass in your larger room.

Thirdly a different amplifier will sound different and produce different levels of perceived bass. In my opinion I would go with the a15, it has a great lovely rich and warm sound with great clarity as well and of course a great Bass.

The Marantz isn't terrible by comparison however I find that the budget level Marantz integrateds, as good as they are sound quality wise, often struggle when needing to put out true power which of course is what you'll need to fill up a larger room, so of course we'll come across sounding thin and without bass.

Fourthly dali speakers are in my opinion not necessarily the Best bass makers in the world. They're not bad, however I always felt the company's products came across as really devoting a lot of themselves to the quality of the mid-range, often at the expense of the lows and highs.

So at the end of the day what I would do is keep to Cambridge for a little bit longer and see if it either breaks in or you get used to it. If that doesn't work, go get yourself the Arcam a15, you won't regret it.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Following What Hi-Fi for a few years, I'm new to the forum.

This week I bought a Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkII amp to match my 9 month old Dali Oberon 5 speaker set. Its incredibly precise and open character is a real pleasure.

But... I now found out that this combination lacks bass a lot in my bigger room. My just passed away 21 years old Arcam A85 had the possibility to add bass, but the Cambridge doesn't have that.

So now I have a dilemma to solve:
- add a subwoofer (but which...?)
- sell the Oberon 5 and buy another pair of speakers (but which...?)
- return the Cambridge and swap it for like a Marantz PM7000N or an Arcam A15, or... another amp (but which...?)
- or...?
My budget is £ 1.250 max.

My gut feeling says: add a subwoofer of get heavier speakers, but I have no idea what is the best option... I would really appreciate your advice!

when you say your Arcam had "the possibility to add bass" that sounds like tone controls or in other words analogue EQ. used sparingly you can make small tweaks, but used to excess they will kill your sound quality. This video is the best explanation I have heard about it:

View: https://youtu.be/7yjhJutykmU?si=Nqti9mHeTLZpoPnn


It also touches on one of the most important things in hifi, speaker placement. Take some time to make sure you have you speakers perfectly positioned. With my speakers, knock off a couple of degrees of toe in, or move them a little closer to (or further from) the wall and they are like different speakers.

One you are confident you are getting the best out of your speakers, if you are still not happy, get a sub.

Personally, I would have chosen a Marantz over a Cambridge Audio as I like how they sound, but thats just personal preference.

 

[jetblack9090]

when you say your Arcam had "the possibility to add bass" that sounds like tone controls or in other words analogue EQ. used sparingly you can make small tweaks, but used to excess they will kill your sound quality. This video is the best explanation I have heard about it:

View: https://youtu.be/7yjhJutykmU?si=Nqti9mHeTLZpoPnn


It also touches on one of the most important things in hifi, speaker placement. Take some time to make sure you have you speakers perfectly positioned. With my speakers, knock off a couple of degrees of toe in, or move them a little closer to (or further from) the wall and they are like different speakers.

One you are confident you are getting the best out of your speakers, if you are still not happy, get a sub.

Personally, I would have chosen a Marantz over a Cambridge Audio as I like how they sound, but thats just personal preference.

Tone controls aren't evil, regardless of what Paul McGowan says. I don't care who he is and how long he's been doing this, if I don't like the sound of a system and I can change that by rotating a treble knob or pressing a loudness button or twiddling a bass boost knob, then I'm going to do it. Remember this whole thing is all about pleasure, if by convincing yourself what something should be means that you have to grit and bear it every time you do it to achieve the supposed perfection pontificated by the glitterati, then trust me it's not worth it.


I did forget about speaker placement, very important. Although I would make the claim that if his arcam amplifier was producing a sound quality that was to his liking and he didn't change anything other than the amplifier then of course it's the amplifier that's the problem.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Tone controls aren't evil, regardless of what Paul McGowan says. I don't care who he is and how long he's been doing this, if I don't like the sound of a system and I can change that by rotating a treble knob or pressing a loudness button or twiddling a bass boost knob, then I'm going to do it. Remember this whole thing is all about pleasure, if by convincing yourself what something should be means that you have to grit and bear it every time you do it to achieve the supposed perfection pontificated by the glitterati, then trust me it's not worth it.


I did forget about speaker placement, very important. Although I would make the claim that if his arcam amplifier was producing a sound quality that was to his liking and he didn't change anything other than the amplifier then of course it's the amplifier that's the problem.

In fairness if you watch the video he says they aren't evil. But gives an explanation and analogy.

The OP describes the Cambridge Audio as "incredibly precise and open character is a real pleasure." I take this to mean it sounds better than the Arcam, otherwise I would recommend picking up a second hand one of those.

I agree with what you say about tone controls, but they don't come free. Improvements I one element could detract from another.

 

[Steinwaytune]

Thank you very much for your concise answers, @jetblack9090 and @Fandango Andy!

So, patience from my side could let the amplifier develop more bass. This makes sense to me, at least I know that speakers have the same habit. For amps, that is new to me. On the other side, I'm afraid the lack of bass is so large, that it might be too much to hope for.

And yes, I do like the Cambridge very much in its clearness and precision. So I understand a subwoofer wouldn't be a bad idea. But then again I'm not looking for a sub that is designed for explosions in movies. If in the end it is going to be a sub, it should be one that suits the Cambridge/Oberon5 combination for classical music as well as not too heavy rock&roll. I could surely use some advice on that.

I have chosen the Dali Oberon 5 after reading the What Hi-Fi review. Reading it again I see the implicated warning for larger rooms... Would the Arcam A15 produce really a lot more bass in the Dali Oberon5's?

Tone Control indeed can unbalance the music 'evilly', I'm very well aware of that. I just had to add a little bass on my old Arcam. But what Paul McGowen says about learning to listen again, and what to listen, makes a lot of sense. And tomorrow I will surely try repositioning the speakers.

Thank you for reading all this and for your help so far!

 

[jetblack9090]

In fairness if you watch the video he says they aren't evil. But gives an explanation and analogy.

The OP describes the Cambridge Audio as "incredibly precise and open character is a real pleasure." I take this to mean it sounds better than the Arcam, otherwise I would recommend picking up a second hand one of those.

I agree with what you say about tone controls, but they don't come free. Improvements I one element could detract from another.

True enough, I just think his sort of rhetoric precipitates the idea that they are bad, and then going forward That's all you hear, when in fact that's not really what he said at all.

When I first got into this hobby 10 years ago I got into the habit of buying all sorts of audio gear, a luxury to be sure, and I found that the more equipment I tried the more I realized I gravitated towards a certain sound.Then a couple years after that I realized that the type of sound that I enjoyed from my equipment is so far removed from the Hi-Fi" ideal" so as to be funny.

You see because I spent the first couple of years in this hobby with the idea that what the magazines and what the reviewers and what the big players in the industry said was good sound, was indeed the ideal sound And after it was all over And I got what they said was good sound I realized I hated it. Truthfully once I had the Epiphany that none of that mattered, I told myself I would spread that doctrine as far and wide as possible.

If someone 's Hi-Fi happiness includes tone controls then I'm all for it, regardless of what it possibly does to the sound. Because listening to music should be a matter of enjoyment and nothing else, remember this is an entertainment medium after all.

 

[Steinwaytune]

If someone 's Hi-Fi happiness includes tone controls then I'm all for it, regardless of what it possibly does to the sound. Because listening to music should be a matter of enjoyment and nothing else, remember this is an entertainment medium after all.

Fair enough!

 

[Fidelity dom]

It sounds that you like the character of your amp & I don’t think your speakers should be particularly base light, in fact iam sure I’ve seen them reviewed when it was suggested that they could a little bloated if not placed carefully. They drop to 39hz so adding a sub will definatly fill out the bottom end down to 20hz. Definatly worth having a play with speaker positioning & giving your amp some time before deciding if you need a sub, Personally I like the extra foundation a sub gives the music with speakers that don’t drop so low.

 

[Steinwaytune]

@Fidelity dom Thank you for your answer.

Replacing the speakers really made a big difference. They are doing a kind of just okay job standing on a place where they are really in the way and risking to be pushed over several times...

So getting a subwoofer seems to be the best option.

For me that means to find a sub that is not designed for the best movie explosions, but that really fits in the detailed classical and subtle pop music and medium heavy rock music. A subtle sub ...
Do you have any recommendations on that?

 

[abacus]

@Fidelity dom Thank you for your answer.

Replacing the speakers really made a big difference. They are doing a kind of just okay job standing on a place where they are really in the way and risking to be pushed over several times...

So getting a subwoofer seems to be the best option.

For me that means to find a sub that is not designed for the best movie explosions, but that really fits in the detailed classical and subtle pop music and medium heavy rock music. A subtle sub ...
Do you have any recommendations on that?

Best to steer clear of ported subwoofers with music, as unless they have good amp and EQ, they can sound a bit bloated.
Have a look at the SVS 1000Pro, as its reasonably priced and works with most speakers.

Bill

 

[abacus]

there are 2 main types of Hi-Fi enthusiasts, those that aim to get a faithful rendition of the original recording and those that just what a sound that suits them (Realism is secondary), most Hi-Fi magazines aim for faithful to the original to their ears, so unlikely to satisfy those that just want a nice sound to their ears, this is why it is so important to try before you buy (Even if it means traveling a distance), as everybody's perception and requirements will be different.

Bill

 

[Al ears]

I would be taking the amp back and buying something with tone controls that you can actually audition at home not waste potentially more money on a subwoofer

 

[R2D2]

Well the first step is to make that thing back to Richer sounds and throw it through the window😂

Haha.

 

[R2D2]

Following What Hi-Fi for a few years, I'm new to the forum.

This week I bought a Cambridge Audio CXA81 mkII amp to match my 9 month old Dali Oberon 5 speaker set. Its incredibly precise and open character is a real pleasure.

But... I now found out that this combination lacks bass a lot in my bigger room. My just passed away 21 years old Arcam A85 had the possibility to add bass, but the Cambridge doesn't have that.

So now I have a dilemma to solve:
- add a subwoofer (but which...?)
- sell the Oberon 5 and buy another pair of speakers (but which...?)
- return the Cambridge and swap it for like a Marantz PM7000N or an Arcam A15, or... another amp (but which...?)
- or...?
My budget is £ 1.250 max.

My gut feeling says: add a subwoofer of get heavier speakers, but I have no idea what is the best option... I would really appreciate your advice!

Did you buy it in store or online? Because if you bought it in store they will charge you to take it back. Ah the joys of Richer Sounds…

 

[Fandango Andy]

there are 2 main types of Hi-Fi enthusiasts, those that aim to get a faithful rendition of the original recording and those that just what a sound that suits them (Realism is secondary), most Hi-Fi magazines aim for faithful to the original to their ears, so unlikely to satisfy those that just want a nice sound to their ears, this is why it is so important to try before you buy (Even if it means traveling a distance), as everybody's perception and requirements will be different.

Bill

Very well said, and totally on the money!

 

[Al ears]

there are 2 main types of Hi-Fi enthusiasts, those that aim to get a faithful rendition of the original recording and those that just what a sound that suits them (Realism is secondary), most Hi-Fi magazines aim for faithful to the original to their ears, so unlikely to satisfy those that just want a nice sound to their ears, this is why it is so important to try before you buy (Even if it means traveling a distance), as everybody's perception and requirements will be different.

Bill

Well said

 

[nopiano]

Have you checked that the speakers are correctly phased? Out of phase = no bass!

 

[Fidelity dom]

@Fidelity dom Thank you for your answer.

Replacing the speakers really made a big difference. They are doing a kind of just okay job standing on a place where they are really in the way and risking to be pushed over several times...

So getting a subwoofer seems to be the best option.

For me that means to find a sub that is not designed for the best movie explosions, but that really fits in the detailed classical and subtle pop music and medium heavy rock music. A subtle sub ...
Do you have any recommendations on that?

SVS & REL both make great subs, SVS subs use class d amplification, whilst REL use class D in the HT series & AB in all the others. Sealed box subs tend to play tighter, whilst not reaching so low. I run an SVS sb1000 in both my systems & have found them to be a great addition. Like all things hifi best to audition if you can😀.

 

[gasolin]

For real music i have my amp in tone defeat and it's more or less all the times

The cambridge cxa 60 i had is bass light and very open,detailed and a little bright

Are yours angled towards you DON'T, it's also what dali recommends

If the highs are very loud the bass can sound weak, dark, the preception of bass can be higher

Here the bass is controlled but the highs are very bright (damping factor of the amp is around 1000 normal is 100 or lower)

(super funky number, you can still watch it on youtube)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZCZ6WnS_cQ


What hifi say what i have a nad c326bee is bass heavy, try one it's inexpensive, if that does it for you, use that amp or buy a different amp, some say a marantz pm 6007 is a good match, denon pma-600ne is somewhat bass heavy and could be an option but generally don't sound as good as a cambridge audio cxa 81

 

[Steinwaytune]

Thank you everyone!

@abacus I'll (travel to) listen to the SVS 1000Pro at least.

@nopiano Not home now, but although I'm pretty dure sure I connected the speakers right, I'll check them again.

@Al ears and @Fidelity dom Problem is that I like everything in the Cambridge except that lack of bass (although it's a little less bad now I placed the speakers on a different spot. So getting another amp for more bass might make me loose some rich higher tones...

 

[Al ears]

Thank you everyone!

@abacus I'll (travel to) listen to the SVS 1000Pro at least.

@nopiano Not home now, but although I'm pretty dure sure I connected the speakers right, I'll check them again.

@Al ears and @Fidelity dom Problem is that I like everything in the Cambridge except that lack of bass (although it's a little less bad now I placed the speakers on a different spot. So getting another amp for more bass might make me loose some rich higher tones...

There's also the possibility you gain something....
Audition is key.
Most amplifiers are pretty much the same but some have better current delivery.
You say your Arcam had the facility to adjust bass. Did you have to use it?
If so it's your speakers that are lacking and need to be changed.

 

[Steinwaytune]

I used a bit...

 

[Messiah]

Its incredibly precise and open character is a real pleasure.

I used a bit...

To me, this seems like a classic case of being used to the sound of overblown/enhanced/coloured bass due to the use of the tone controls. (Not saying this is right or wrong mind you - all that matters is what you like).

Now that you do not have this, let’s call it, enhancement altering the sound, you are able to make out the extra character and precision.

Before you start chasing the issue any further, I would simply live with it for a week or two and see if it is something you actually grow to prefer. (You may be surprised!)

If you find the bass is still lacking then you may need to consider the various options listed above.

 

[gasolin]

To me, this seems like a classic case of being used to the sound of overblown/enhanced/coloured bass due to the use of the tone controls. (Not saying this is right or wrong mind you - all that matters is what you like).

Now that you do not have this, let’s call it, enhancement altering the sound, you are able to make out the extra character and precision.

Before you start chasing the issue any further, I would simply live with it for a week or two and see if it is something you actually grow to prefer. (You may be surprised!)

If you find the bass is still lacking then you may need to consider the various options listed above.

He might not be able to do it if the return period is 14 days