The Kef Reference thread

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walbor said:
I'm currently using a pair of Reference 4.2 with my modified Yamaha CDS700 and XTZ A100 D3 ampl and they sound amazing but the missus is not happy about the size of them (room is only 5m X 4M) would the LS50 be a good choice or something in the 'R' range? Looking to spend around £800 - don't know how I'm going to get close to the sound of these though!
Click to expand...

To be in with any chance of them sounding like the 4.2s, I think you'd have to be looking at the R900. Not a small speaker, but certainly smaller than the 4.2s!

Personally, I'd keep them. They get better and better with more capable amplification, and the quality on offer will only be attainable from the current Reference range, although the newer Reference is tighter.

An audition is a must before parting with such monster speakers!
 
walbor said:
Maybe I need an upgrade on the girlfriend front 😉
Click to expand...

You obviously don't want to go for anything with a shrill treble, a nice warm bottom end is always preferable!

badaboom 8)
 
Certainly don't want a flabby, uncontrolled bottom end!
smiley-smile.gif
 
Neuphonix said:
You obviously don't want to go for anything with a shrill treble, a nice warm bottom end is always preferable!

badaboom 8)
Click to expand...

Well my friend, now that you have lived with the Refs for a while, in a system that has a similar flavour to mine.....i'd be intrigued to hear what you think (ie.In the context of your system):

- If someone offered you a straight swap for some Scalas, would you take it?

- What would you regard as their strengths and weaknesses?

- Do you think they are all-rounders, or excel (or not) with certain types of music?

- Do you find them balanced across the frequency range, with no part being pushed forward?

- How well do you think they image?
- Do you feel they need a Sub with 2 channel, and how do you think they integrate with your room?

- Would you consider them neutral?

- In the context of all the speakers that you've tried, where do they rank?

Sorry for all the questions, it's just I'm interested in knowing if your subjective judgement differs from mine....since you are in such a unique position to answer.
 
Hi mate,

well the short answer is that I still haven't lost that goofy grin yet 😛

You probably know by now that I'm not the best at flowery answers with lots of hifi jargon, but I'll put down as much as I can below.

[/quote]

Well my friend, now that you have lived with the Refs for a while, in a system that has a similar flavour to mine.....i'd be intrigued to hear what you think (ie.In the context of your system):

- If someone offered you a straight swap for some Scalas, would you take it?

Hard to say, in some ways yes, other no. It was at least 9 months since I heard the Scalas so memory is not as fresh as I'd like for a judgement call like this. In terms of $, it would be hard to say no, they were perhaps slightly (very slightly) taughter in the bass & that tweeter a touch sparklier. Not that I ever had the chance to listen to the Scalas at home, but there was always a question about how big they were for my room. I think that the 205/2 is probably better suited to the room (front port & boundary compensation etc) & I do prefer the look of the Kefs much more than the Focals. You are comparing a 40K speaker to a 15K speaker so not really apples to apples. But no I probably wouldn't.

- What would you regard as their strengths and weaknesses?

I have yet to find any weakness' but TBH I'm not really looking for any. It's funny for me because I've moved from a situation where I was never really happy, to one where I am constantly happy & this skews my objectivity (in a good way). The obvious difference is strength & depth in the bottom end, but not flabby or boomy, lovely tight textured integrated bass. They are detailed & reasonably forward, but nowhere near as in you face as the Diablos, and whilst revealing I don't find them to be as unforgiving as the Focals either.

- Do you think they are all-rounders, or excel (or not) with certain types of music?

I have been trying to listen to a real variety of music since I bought them & would say that all rounder is a reasonable categorisation. Classical music sounds sublime, dub & reggae textured & warm, electronic & dance music deep & punchy, rock music suitably raucous, jazz smooth & flowing. Have yet to find a genre that sounds ordinary.

- Do you find them balanced across the frequency range, with no part being pushed forward?

Yes I would tend to agree with this, but again in the context of having moved from something that was very forward. It would have been nice to have had the chance to demo the Viennas as they would probably have been even further along the laid back spectrum. Not that I necessarily wanted anything too laid back (my old floorstanders were more like this), but just to have a comparitive measure & to confirm exactly how good the Kefs are.

- How well do you think they image?

Well you know, the blacks are blacker than the blackest blacks, veils have been lifted & I keep getting images of floating violinists!!! 😉 So they must be good (annoying floating violinists)

- Do you feel they need a Sub with 2 channel, and how do you think they integrate with your room?

No not really. Yesterday I plugged the subs into the Primo RCA outputs, not that I've been feeling the need, more of an experiment. There was definitely an added dimension down low, but I would describe it as flabby & uncontrolled. Having removed the Bryston crossover there is a need to play around again with the sub settings to improve integration but TBH I don't think that I'll bother. If I can't get it perfect & it detracts from the detail & tightness of the Kefs it's not worth the trade-off.

- Would you consider them neutral?

I guess I would but not having listened to as many speakers as you have I'm not sure that I could give you an informed answer on this one. They are certainly more detailed than my old floor standers & not as bright as the Diablos, so in that sense they are more neutral to my ears.

- In the context of all the speakers that you've tried, where do they rank?

Number 1!!! :cheer: Unike Matt & Alex and other forum members my journey (at least in terms of speakers) has been relatively short. I just felt that the oportunity to buy these was natural & went with it (certainly influenced by your recommendations). If I was in the situation of being able to start again with money in the bank, knowing then what I know now, I might have taken more time to demo different brands & models. But because I wanted to trade in, my options were somewhat more limited. That being said I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever, over the moon with the newest members of the family.

Few other notes:

I gave that Dave Brubeck tune a run, but only had a live version of it not the album, awesome. Is it possible that speakers can be so good that they even cause me to start enjoying jazz?!!! They must be good :O

Put the floor spikes on over the weekend, hard to say exactly what effect this had because I mucked around with the subs at the same time. Can tell you one thing though, my back is still getting over the experience.

I'll not be moving away from the AMS gear now, no way. The silky smooth nature of the amp just seems to shine so much more now, loving it.

Sorry for all the questions, it's just I'm interested in knowing if your subjective judgement differs from mine....since you are in such a unique position to answer.[/quote]

No need to apologise, I have really appreciated your conversation, the non didactic nature of your input is valued.

Please say hi to Mrs Cno for me & promise me you'll buy her something nice for Christmas this year 😉
 
@ Neuphonix

Thank you for the comprehensive reply.

I asked you about the Scalas as it would really make you think about whether you have gone in the right direction......it was predicated on the assumption that the Scalas could be made sound right in your room. FWIW. I would not swop, but I think you know that.

If my system was two channel only, I would probably have a SET Valve Amp and speakers from AN or Harbeth, but as as an AV / 2 channel compromise, I have yet to hear better,

Combined with the DS and AMS, I would agree that they are remarkably versatile and have pile-driving bass when called for. If you want to hear very deep bass, try Beyond Skin by Nitin Sawhney (especially "Nadia").

Neutrality is hard to gauge, and I have my own categories of "Forgiving Neutral" (ie. Refs) and Ruthlessly Neutral (Focals).

By the way, i'm delighted that you finally enjoyed the "Take Five" track......there is something about the way the Refs deliver the realism, especially of the drumming, that is totally captivating. It manages the excitement and dynamism, without throwing it in your face. I hope it allows you to explore more of this genre.

I was really hoping that when you heard the combination, all thoughts of changing the Primo / 35P would be banished for good.....so I'm more than happy that it appears to be the case.

Next experiment.....Linn Silvers to amp, Atlas Mavros S/C and some decent P/Cs!
evil.png


Mrs Cno has got an early Christmas present.....a (hopefully) dry rot free house. :twisted:
 
CnoEvil said:
@ Neuphonix

Thank you for the comprehensive reply.

I asked you about the Scalas as it would really make you think about whether you have gone in the right direction......it was predicated on the assumption that the Scalas could be made sound right in your room. FWIW. I would not swop, but I think you know that.

If my system was two channel only, I would probably have a SET Valve Amp and speakers from AN or Harbeth, but as as an AV / 2 channel compromise, I have yet to hear better,

Combined with the DS and AMS, I would agree that they are remarkably versatile and have pile-driving bass when called for. If you want to hear very deep bass, try Beyond Skin by Nitin Sawhney (especially "Nadia").

Neutrality is hard to gauge, and I have my own categories of "Forgiving Neutral" (ie. Refs) and Ruthlessly Neutral (Focals).

By the way, i'm delighted that you finally enjoyed the "Take Five" track......there is something about the way the Refs deliver the realism, especially of the drumming, that is totally captivating. It manages the excitement and dynamism, without throwing it in your face. I hope it allows you to explore more of this genre.

I was really hoping that when you heard the combination, all thoughts of changing the Primo / 35P would be banished for good.....so I'm more than happy that it appears to be the case.

Next experiment.....Linn Silvers to amp, Atlas Mavros S/C and some decent P/Cs!
evil.png


Mrs Cno has got an early Christmas present.....a (hopefully) dry rot free house. :twisted:
Click to expand...

Hi mate,

the Scalas were really the only comparible speaker that I had demod against the Kefs, but again you're comparing a 40k speaker against a 15k speaker. My poor excuse for a memory doesn't allow me to make a fiar assessment of one vs the other. I would suspect that in a side by side, in the right room with the right amp the Scalas might have the edge, but you'd sort of expect that for double the price. It was only that the dealer had a trade in pair for half price that made me even entertain the idea.

Got so say though I really prefer the aesthetic of the kefs, sexy curves, much more understated & love the dome!!! Looks I suppose shouldnt be the main consideration, but when you look back at the older Focal Utopias I don't think they age well (at least to my eyes), and I suspect that the current range might head in the same direction. Like an old Peugeot......

I do have the Beyond Skin album, might drag it out tonight.

Will def be delving more into the jazz realm, have just bought all of Dave brubecks albums on ebay, also a bunch of Charles Mingus.

In my previous post I did forget to mention the advantages of the Kefs in my AV set-up, worlds apart from the stand mounts. When Oldric suggested I look at line arrays I nearly fell out of my seat!!! Not even I could sneak a pair of those past the front door. He was definitely on the mark though about the speakers being the limiting factor & not the amp. Gaming & movies now have that familiar impact that I had been missing ever since I bought the Diablos.

I have been given a letter of demand by the leader of the opposition that "ABSOLUTLEY NO MORE MONEY IS TO BE SPENT ON STEREO EQUIPMENT UNTIL I GET MY NEW KITCHEN. OTHERWISE AN OFFICIAL LETTER OF COMPLAINT WILL BE SENT TO THE GOV GENERAL SUGGESTING MY POSSIBLE REMOVAL FROM THE TOP SEAT" 😳

So stop it with anymore suggestions about tweaks!!!

BTW did you manage to slip in a new hifi/HT room with all your building works? 😉
 
I owned R 104 aB's in the 70's - 80's. Their predecessors were Wharfedales Denton 2 (recently reintroduced) and the successors were Manepan's SMGA. I would want to know how they would sound with my current valve-amp.

Anyone who has combination of 104 aB's with valve-amp ? At the time that i had the Kef's, i did not know much about the influence of an amp on the sound.
 
Well I had been considering replacing my B&W ceiling speakers with proper surrounds. Was thinking of LS50s. However, I decided to give my XQ40s a "go" in that role and I very suprised. They work very well in that role on multichannel SACD (Rumors and Dark Side of the Moon so far). They are a borderline fit in my room so verdict is not out but was very pleased at the XQs could work with the 205/2s and 202/2c. :rockout:
 
Absolutely correct... although it has always been on my list :read: and the added incentive of seeing it in certain people's setup's and feeling very envious! :cheers:

I just couldn't work out how to arrange the rest of the equipment but have found a solution for now...

I picked up some of these too...

http://www.kronosav.com/accessories/isolation/valhalla-technology-vt-feet-type-30-prices-reviews.html?

Hope they are up to the job? 😛ray:
 
clinton333 said:
I picked up some of these too...

http://www.kronosav.com/accessories/isolation/valhalla-technology-vt-feet-type-30-prices-reviews.html?

Hope they are up to the job? 😛ray:
Click to expand...

So do I. :shifty:
 
Interesting thread - I have just had my old (early 1990's) system serviced/ repaired which consists of audio lab 8000C, 8000DAC, 2x 8000P and Marantz 63KI signature CD (used only as transport to DAC) it was originally bi-wired to KEF 103-4s with audio quest type4 cables. Unfortunately the KEF's didn't survive the years of neglect and in the interim I aquired a pair of ATL SCM 40's. Problem is that the KEF's had such a sweet sound and now I am struggling with the harshness and openness of the speakers

any idea how to tame the speakers - or should I bite the bullet and buy some new KEF or B&W's ????
 
Interesting thread - I have just had my old (early 1990's) system serviced/ repaired which consists of audio lab 8000C, 8000DAC, 2x 8000P and Marantz 63KI signature CD (used only as transport to DAC) it was originally bi-wired to KEF 103-4s with audio quest type4 cables. Unfortunately the KEF's didn't survive the years of neglect and in the interim I aquired a pair of ATL SCM 40's. Problem is that the KEF's had such a sweet sound and now I am struggling with the harshness and openness of the speakers

any idea how to tame the speakers - or should I bite the bullet and buy some new KEF or B&W's ????
 
Interesting thread - I have just had my old (early 1990's) system serviced/ repaired which consists of audio lab 8000C, 8000DAC, 2x 8000P and Marantz 63KI signature CD (used only as transport to DAC) it was originally bi-wired to KEF 103-4s with audio quest type4 cables. Unfortunately the KEF's didn't survive the years of neglect and in the interim I aquired a pair of ATL SCM 40's. Problem is that the KEF's had such a sweet sound and now I am struggling with the harshness and openness of the speakers

any idea how to tame the speakers - or should I bite the bullet and buy some new KEF or B&W's ????
 
callmeruss said:
Interesting thread - I have just had my old (early 1990's) system serviced/ repaired which consists of audio lab 8000C, 8000DAC, 2x 8000P and Marantz 63KI signature CD (used only as transport to DAC) it was originally bi-wired to KEF 103-4s with audio quest type4 cables. Unfortunately the KEF's didn't survive the years of neglect and in the interim I aquired a pair of ATL SCM 40's. Problem is that the KEF's had such a sweet sound and now I am struggling with the harshness and openness of the speakers

any idea how to tame the speakers - or should I bite the bullet and buy some new KEF or B&W's ????
Click to expand...

You have two choices -

Smoother amp or smoother speakers.

I take it you want to go the speaker route, so I would recommend some R700s. The current Refs might leave you with the same problem, but the R series is smooth, detailed and open, along with a "full" bass. Give it a try and see what you think. You could also try some Sonus Faber Venere 2.5s.

If you want to go the amp route, I'm happy to make some suggestions, if you give a budget.
 
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