Kef Reference 203/2 Recomended Amplifier

[josepablo.mongee]

Hello! I purchased a pair of Kef Reference 203/2 on a great oportunity. These were showroom speakers so they have only been used in the store.

My current amplifier is a Arcam A18 50w at 8Ohms, which was purchased for my pair of KEF R300. It does a great job with the R300s. However this amplifier is just not able to drive the Kef 203/2 properly. They sound dull and without any texture, resolution or power.

I have tested them with an old Pioneer VXS D1S which is 130w and they sound a lot better. Unfortunaletly, the Pioneer Died recently so the Kef 203/2 are just sitting there in my listening room waiting to be unleashed again. I'm planning on investing on a good new or used amplifier between $2000 to $7000. However if posssible, I will not like to pay more than $4000 so I can purchase it now instead of waiting to gather the rest of the money. I been considering the following:

- Parasound Halo A21 and use my Arcam A18 as a preamplifier. (Cheapest more accesible option)

- Musical Fidelity M6i

- Musical Fidelity M6500i (which seems to allow me to byamp the speakers)

Does anyone has good experience with any of these amps and the 203/2? or does anyone has another amp that drives this speakers properly to their full potential? I'm looking for the most dynamic, transparent and acurate amp possible. Thanks!

I live in Costa Rica, but I do most of my purchases on Amazon and Ebay in US.

Thank you!

 

[Macspur]

Hello! I purchased a pair of Kef Reference 203/2 on a great oportunity. These were showroom speakers so they have only been used in the store.

My current amplifier is a Arcam A18 50w at 8Ohms, which was purchased for my pair of KEF R300. It does a great job with the R300s. However this amplifier is just not able to drive the Kef 203/2 properly. They sound dull and without any texture, resolution or power.

I have tested them with an old Pioneer VXS D1S which is 130w and they sound a lot better. Unfortunaletly, the Pioneer Died recently so the Kef 203/2 are just sitting there in my listening room waiting to be unleashed again. I'm planning on investing on a good new or used amplifier between $2000 to $7000. However if posssible, I will not like to pay more than $4000 so I can purchase it now instead of waiting to gather the rest of the money. I been considering the following:

- Parasound Halo A21 and use my Arcam A18 as a preamplifier. (Cheapest more accesible option)

- Musical Fidelity M6i

- Musical Fidelity M6500i (which seems to allow me to byamp the speakers)

Does anyone has good experience with any of these amps and the 203/2? or does anyone has another amp that drives this speakers properly to their full potential? I'm looking for the most dynamic, transparent and acurate amp possible. Thanks!

I live in Costa Rica, but I do most of my purchases on Amazon and Ebay in US.

Thank you!

Hi and welcome

I've not heard any of those amps listed, but I do know that another forum member, Cno, really likes the Kef/MF combo.

I'm sure he'll be along to add his thoughts.

P.s, what is your source?? CD, Record deck, streaming etc and what brand?

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[ellisdj]

Good Answer Cno !!

If you want a Review for the P49 - similar to the A49 on Kef Reference speakers you can see my you tube channel, link below

Also there are sound recorded video of the P49 in action in that system too

Shameless plug but one that might help you reghards to the Arcam option

 

[CnoEvil]

Good Answer Cno !!

If you want a Review for the P49 - similar to the A49 on Kef Reference speakers you can see my you tube channel, link below

Also there are sound recorded video of the P49 in action in that system too

Shameless plug but one that might help you reghards to the Arcam option

Thank you Sir.

The OP needs to be careful, or he will end up preferring the R300s....IMO. The current Refs, pull off the neat trick of being more revealing, yet sweeter...which makes them easier to match with more brands of amp.

If the OP gets the synergy and quality of the partnering components right, then he can put together a great sounding, highend system.

 

[josepablo.mongee]

Thank you all. First of all, GREAT REPLYS! I'm already following your other chats and youtube channels. Impresive setup ellisdj! You basically have my dream setup right there in your room!

CnoEvil, first I will answer some of the questions

These are my audio sources:

Analog:
- Turntable: Music Hall MMF 2.2
- Cartridge: Ortofon - 2M Blue MM
- Phono PreAmp: Pro-Ject Audio Tube Box S

Digital
- DAC: ARCAM irDAC (All digital sources connected to this DAC)
- Wireless: ChromeCast Audio connected through toslink cable
- Digital Player: Olive One 1TB connected through coaxial output
- PC: Through USB Interface

And yes, I'm actually looking for a sweet sounding amp. I did not consider ARCAM until you guys mentioned. Now it makes a lot of sense. Especially with what I read about the G class amplification.

Now here is the question:

Will I get the same performance out of the A49 than I will get from the P49?
If there will be no audio difference I will start with the A49 and then add a second P49 to do bi-amplify the speakers.

However if I will get more performance out of a P49, then I will probably use my Arcam A18 while I get a second P49. And then upgrade the pream.

To me, A49/P49 combo sounds like will have better performance for the money long term.

Do you guys agree on start with an A49 integrated or should I start with a P49 amplifier?

Thank you guys! I appreciate the time you take to answer these questions.

 

[josepablo.mongee]

One more question. Will I really hear a performance improvement with better cables? I'm skeptical about real performance with better cables. I have a pair of custom made cables made for bi-wiring. However I have not hear any actual improvement compared to regular speaker cable using my KEF R300s. These better cables just look awesome.

Will the Reference 203/2 gain any benefit from better cables in a significantly audible degree?

Thanks!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi josepablo.mongee

Auralic's Merak mono power amplifier is also worth a look. The Merak will get on top of your KEF Reference loudspeakers without breaking a sweat.

Btw, I wouldn't lose any sleep over cables.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi there

I have the 205/2s, the bigger brother of your 203/2s and have heard all of that range...so have a little insight on what might work.

These are genuine reference quality speakers and will ruthlessly reveal any weaknesses of the upstream system....including the Source (I use a Linn DS which works very well).

What is your Source atm.

On the amp front, I think they work well with a touch of "Sweetness", otherwise they can sound a bit dry and analytical. The amp generally needs to be powerful, have a robust power supply (can handle a 3 Ohm load) and have good control.

Given you like Arcam, I would strongly recommend the A49, which works very well imo (especially with a Linn DS as a Source).

Mac mentioned I like MF, which is true....but with those speakers, for my taste, it was with the AMS range, which is now discontinued. I use the AMS 35i, which on paper doesn't look powerful enough.....but it doubles its power into 4 and 2 Ohms and sounds sublime. If I was looking at the current range, it would be one of the Nu-Vista amps, which are sweeter than M Series (due to a valve in the Pre).

Other brands that I would consider would be Plinius, Classe, Ayre, Sugden, Pathos, Electrocompaniet, Mc Intosh, Sugden, Jadis, Icon Audio, Accuphase, Luxman and Devialet.

So to sum up...top of your list should be the Arcam A49.....and don't underestimate the importance of the Source.

If I can help further, just ask.

Here is a thread that I have started on Kef Reference: https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/kef-reference-thread

 

[CnoEvil]

It's a hard one to call for someone else, but I would go with the A49 and forget about bi-amping (which may bring some improvement, but at too much cost). I wouldn't bi-amp with the A18, as it's preamp would not be good enough. Any savings made could be put to a digital source (like a Linn DS).

Whether cables make a difference, is a controversial topic - so I can only give my experience:

- I would always replace the Mains Cable on an amp, with something like that from Clearer Audio.

- More expensive cables are worth trying from the likes of Cardas, Atlas and Telurium Q......but it is something that you have to try for yourself. The main priority is to get the balance of the system correct.

- On more modest cables, I like Linn (K20/Black/Silver), when bought from ebay; QED 79 Strand or Van Damme (UP-LC OFC)

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/van-damme-up-lcofc-loudspeaker-cable/

Let us know how you get on.

 

[ellisdj]

After a very positive experience with a McIntosh amplifier I had a quick look to see what Integrateds they sell.

The MA5200 is lower on power but could well still be enough and it has a dac stage built in as well.

then I came across this

someone else had already thought of it 🙂

 

[Infiniteloop]

I would second Cno's suggestion of the MF NuVista for something warmer, but if you want something very powerful, sweet, musical, clean-sounding and transparent, Devialet is the way to go. I've had mine almost three years and still haven't heard anything to better it for the price, or way beyond.

 

[josepablo.mongee]

Devialet looks like out of this world, but price range looks way to high. $7000 for a used unit. I just with I had no expenses to worry about and just throw all my money on audio equipment! *biggrin*

 

[josepablo.mongee]

Ok ellisdj, so I was almost decided on the A49 until you mentioned the MC5200 and saw your video review of the MC152. I have investigated a lot the MC152 and it looks like is as magical as you describe it in the video.

So I will have to ask, after listening to both amps, without money as a consideration, will you choose the A49 or the MC152? Will I get similar performance from the A49? or should I save a little more to get all the amazing things you describe from the MC152?

There is a dealer here that has a MA7900 demo unit that I will be auditioning this saturday. However after reading reviews, it is not as regarded as the MC152. Not sure if this will distortion my perception of MC152.

Everything you describe about the MC152 is what I been looking for. But I want to make sure the A49 is similar in performance or if both are in different leagues?

BTW, you have one of the best review channels I have visited, I enjoyed a lot. Keep it up. I'm interested in all the additional tunning you do for the amp. Did you have information about it? Looks like there is an actual performance difference based on your comments.

Thank you!

 

[ellisdj]

Thanks for the kinds comments there that has put a big smile on my face, I appreciate it.

I have to be honest I havent tried the A49 but I did prefer the McIntosh over the P49 with my Meridian processor as the dac. Both were very good I think the Mc was a better performer but it should be its a lot more money.

Neither are really warm sounding though but they are not harsh at all either which is good.
Maybe remind me what your looking for and what dac and pre??

 

[CnoEvil]

Ok ellisdj, so I was almost decided on the A49 until you mentioned the MC5200 and saw your video review of the MC152. I have investigated a lot the MC152 and it looks like is as magical as you describe it in the video.

So I will have to ask, after listening to both amps, without money as a consideration, will you choose the A49 or the MC152? Will I get similar performance from the A49? or should I save a little more to get all the amazing things you describe from the MC152?

There is a dealer here that has a MA7900 demo unit that I will be auditioning this saturday. However after reading reviews, it is not as regarded as the MC152. Not sure if this will distortion my perception of MC152.

Everything you describe about the MC152 is what I been looking for. But I want to make sure the A49 is similar in performance or if both are in different leagues?

BTW, you have one of the best review channels I have visited, I enjoyed a lot. Keep it up. I'm interested in all the additional tunning you do for the amp. Did you have information about it? Looks like there is an actual performance difference based on your comments.

Thank you!

Personally, I don't think you can go wrong with either of these Amps - and I think you are looking in exactly the right areas.

Just bear 2 things in mind:

1. At this level, the Source can make or break the sound you get - so when demoing, keep this in mind.

2. The Pre-amp is vital, which is why it's hard to make a full judgement on Ellis's excellent reviews.

If possible, you need to listen for yourself.

 

[josepablo.mongee]

First of all, thank you guys for your quick responses.

So I Auditioned an Mcintosh MA7900 today. The seller was kind enough to bring the amp to my apartment and test it under my room conditions and with my Kef Reference 203/2 speakers so I can be sure this is my right amp.

My first impression is that the Mcintosh drives these speakers with ease. Everything is tight and detailed. I auditioned my test playlist (yes I have a playlist just for testing audio gear). We even auditioned some vinyl records and the seller was supprised on how dynamic the sound was with my Single Version of Personal Jesus, Is truly remarcable how this single vinyl was mastered.

There is still one thing that was missing and that was the 3d spartial sound I once hear on lower end Kef speakers (Kef XQ40). That thing was like a hologram generator. I been looking for that sound ever since. There is a lot of claim that Mcintosh amplifiers can deliver this type of sound but I did not have that impression. So like you guys said, the problem might be on the source. I have read your several recomendations in this thead and that might be my missing link. I have two main sources:

- Music Hall turntable with an Ortofon Black cartridge and a Pro-ject Tube Amp

- Arcam IrDac which I connect to my computer, chrome cast audio and chrome cast video. I use very high quality FLAC files with very good dynamic range. I have tested the amp with several Chesky records which was some of the ones I listen the older Kef XQ 40.

So, my question to you guys is. If you test your current systems with the same speakers and amplifier but you connect it to a lower end source like a computer sound card or mid range dac, will you loose that 3d effect? I would expect tonality changes and detail but, is the 3d also gone? or should I pay more attention to my room acoustics? I have placed a big carpet, bass traps and diffuser panels in the walls using the mirror technique. But there is still some reverberation left and might be my problem.

Once again, thank you very much for your time. I have enjoyed this journey. I take your responses with a lot of respect and enthusiasm.

Best Regards from Costa Rica!

 

[CnoEvil]

IMO. The 3 D affect is because of the way the album was recorded and mastered....and you need a good source to pass this on intact - especially any ambient info.

The amp and speakers have to be of sufficient quality to pass it on....and the speakers/sitting position have to be in the right position. The Kef's Uni-Q Point Source system all makes this work better as well.

To start with, make sure you sit in an equilateral triangle with the speakers, with your ears roughly at speaker height.....and experiment with toe-in.

How's it all sounding?

 

[Macspur]

First of all, thank you guys for your quick responses.

So I Auditioned an Mcintosh MA7900 today. The seller was kind enough to bring the amp to my apartment and test it under my room conditions and with my Kef Reference 203/2 speakers so I can be sure this is my right amp.

My first impression is that the Mcintosh drives these speakers with ease. Everything is tight and detailed. I auditioned my test playlist (yes I have a playlist just for testing audio gear). We even auditioned some vinyl records and the seller was supprised on how dynamic the sound was with my Single Version of Personal Jesus, Is truly remarcable how this single vinyl was mastered.

There is still one thing that was missing and that was the 3d spartial sound I once hear on lower end Kef speakers (Kef XQ40). That thing was like a hologram generator. I been looking for that sound ever since. There is a lot of claim that Mcintosh amplifiers can deliver this type of sound but I did not have that impression. So like you guys said, the problem might be on the source. I have read your several recomendations in this thead and that might be my missing link. I have two main sources:

- Music Hall turntable with an Ortofon Black cartridge and a Pro-ject Tube Amp

- Arcam IrDac which I connect to my computer, chrome cast audio and chrome cast video. I use very high quality FLAC files with very good dynamic range. I have tested the amp with several Chesky records which was some of the ones I listen the older Kef XQ 40.

So, my question to you guys is. If you test your current systems with the same speakers and amplifier but you connect it to a lower end source like a computer sound card or mid range dac, will you loose that 3d effect? I would expect tonality changes and detail but, is the 3d also gone? or should I pay more attention to my room acoustics? I have placed a big carpet, bass traps and diffuser panels in the walls using the mirror technique. But there is still some reverberation left and might be my problem.

Once again, thank you very much for your time. I have enjoyed this journey. I take your responses with a lot of respect and enthusiasm.

Best Regards from Costa Rica!

Have you bought the MA7900?

In terms of source, what brands do you have access to?

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com