The Kef Reference thread

[matt49]

Russ,

My feeling is that if you don't like the sound of the ATCs, looking for a new amp to "tame" them isn't the best way to go. Whatever amp you buy, the ATCs will still to some extent impose their sonic signature on the music.

So I'd be minded to go the speaker route. I'd second Cno's speaker suggestions. I wouldn't go for B&Ws, as they can be a bit bright up top (though admittedly that applies more to the 800 series than the other models). Also worth considering: Dynaudio Excite range, Proac Studio 140 Mk 2.

Matt

 

[CnoEvil]

Russ,

My feeling is that if you don't like the sound of the ATCs, looking for a new amp to "tame" them isn't the best way to go. Whatever amp you buy, the ATCs will still to some extent impose their sonic signature on the music.

I'm not sure I fully agree.

The ATCs are a bit of a chameleon, and will very much reflect the sound of the rest of the system. They would sound very different on the end of some Icon Audio, McIntosh or Sugden monoblocks, for example.

The Kef Refs are a little similar in that regard, and I have heard them sounding too forward and shouty, for my taste.

 

[matt49]

Russ,

My feeling is that if you don't like the sound of the ATCs, looking for a new amp to "tame" them isn't the best way to go. Whatever amp you buy, the ATCs will still to some extent impose their sonic signature on the music.

I'm not sure I fully agree.

The ATCs are a bit of a chameleon, and will very much reflect the sound of the rest of the system. They would sound very different on the end of some Icon Audio, McIntosh or Sugden monoblocks, for example.

The Kef Refs are a little similar in that regard, and I have heard them sounding too forward and shouty, for my taste.

Didn't Mac have the SCM40s with a Sugden Masterclass? I thought he moved the speakers on because he found their presentation too aggressive, even with the big smooth Sugden. Of course, I may be misremembering.

Matt

 

[callmeruss]

now there's a question !! i am guessing about 6 or 7 years (but it is a guess) - was going to start building up a new system based around them but company venture put paid to funding - they have been used just with an old 8000A connected just to have some music. Now i have resurected the old componenets as described.. They were apparently the original SCM40's that AUdiophile magazine used for the test review (according to the bloke i bought them from). serial No 03251 & 2

regards

 

[CnoEvil]

Didn't Mac have the SCM40s with a Sugden Masterclass? I thought he moved the speakers on because he found their presentation too aggressive, even with the big smooth Sugden. Of course, I may be misremembering.

Matt

Yes he had them for a while, and IIRC, they did certain things well, but for the music he liked, I think they were too dry for his taste.

....but this is about degrees of difference within the design of the speaker, and personal preference. They will never sound like Sonus Faber, but they will sound very different on the end of a Sugden, than on the end of some Audiolabs.

For some people, taming them with some Valves will be fine; for others who are more into Harbeth for example, they just won't work.

I've been in this game long enough to know that you can't make assumptions / presumptions regarding what other people may like....so I lay out alternatives and hope they experiment.

 

[Excitable Boy]

You may have read on another thread I started (http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/floorstander-upgrade-time), that I am home testing some KEF Reference 203/2s with my Bryston pre/power set up. So far, so good. I love the extra detail and refined bass. It is early days, and I am still playing around with positioning etc. I would appreciate help with two questions :

1) What cables would you suggest are worth investigating ? (I currently have Tellurium Q Blacks.)

2) The speakers are singlewired, with the leads from the amp going to the HF posts. Is this best ?

Thanks.

 

[CnoEvil]

You may have read on another thread I started (http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/floorstander-upgrade-time), that I am home testing some KEF Reference 203/2s with my Bryston pre/power set up. So far, so good. I love the extra detail and refined bass. It is early days, and I am still playing around with positioning etc. I would appreciate help with two questions :

1) What cables would you suggest are worth investigating ? (I currently have Tellurium Q Blacks.)

2) The speakers are singlewired, with the leads from the amp going to the HF posts. Is this best ?

Thanks.

1. I suppose that depends on what you want to spend, as the TQ Blacks are very good. You can go further up the TQ range; look at the Vertere range, as well as consider the Atlas Mavros.

Personally, I like Cardas, but it is very pricey in this part of the world....you might find some of the Golden Ref stuff about that's a bit cheaper, as it's been discontinued (replaced by the Clear range).

2. I think it's worth replacing the links at the back with the same cable as you are using.

I use Cardas Golden Cross in a Tri-wire configuration, so haven't experimented......but you may find this review helpful (4th para down under Setup): http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/kef_reference_203_2.htm

 

[Macspur]

Russ,

My feeling is that if you don't like the sound of the ATCs, looking for a new amp to "tame" them isn't the best way to go. Whatever amp you buy, the ATCs will still to some extent impose their sonic signature on the music.

I'm not sure I fully agree.

The ATCs are a bit of a chameleon, and will very much reflect the sound of the rest of the system. They would sound very different on the end of some Icon Audio, McIntosh or Sugden monoblocks, for example.

The Kef Refs are a little similar in that regard, and I have heard them sounding too forward and shouty, for my taste.

Didn't Mac have the SCM40s with a Sugden Masterclass? I thought he moved the speakers on because he found their presentation too aggressive, even with the big smooth Sugden. Of course, I may be misremembering.

Matt

No Matt, well remembered... I used to have the Masterclass with SCM40 and they were certainly not for me. The only music I found them superb with is Electronic, but as I don't have a great deal of that genre in my collection, they had to go. One small caveat though, I did also have a Naim CDX2 as source which I'm sure didn't help matters.

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[mofojo]

New to the thread just wanted to know if anyone else has experience running tubes on the reference series. I'm running 201/2 with Cayin A100T and sounds amazing. Very dynamic and layered. Voices sound amazing. Last weekend I hooked my Odyssey Stratos back up to them to see if my mind was changed. Nope. Couple hours later hooked the Cayin back up. From an efficiency standpoint they really should not work all that well with tubes but they are sweet. BTW I listen to Lots of rock and the Cayin sounds much more dynamic than the high powered SS Stratos. Running full range with JL F113 at 60hz.

 

[CnoEvil]

New to the thread just wanted to know if anyone else has experience running tubes on the reference series. I'm running 201/2 with Cayin A100T and sounds amazing. Very dynamic and layered. Voices sound amazing. Last weekend I hooked my Odyssey Stratos back up to them to see if my mind was changed. Nope. Couple hours later hooked the Cayin back up. From an efficiency standpoint they really should not work all that well with tubes but they are sweet. BTW I listen to Lots of rock and the Cayin sounds much more dynamic than the high powered SS Stratos. Running full range with JL F113 at 60hz.

Hi there, and welcome to the forum.

I am very familiar with the Kef Ref sound, and think they work really well with a Class A type sound.

If the Valve amp can handle the impedance drop, control the bass properly, and go loud enough for its intended use, it is a match made in heaven. :rockout:

 

[mofojo]

Yeah seems to control the bass very well. Worked a treat with my usher be 718, paradigm s2 as well. Dynaudio Focus 140 not so much.

 

[Macspur]

If anyone is in the market for a pair of the much vaunted Kef Ref 205/2 look here...

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?101630-FS-Kef-Reference-model-205-2-Loudspeakers-Pre-owned

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[Jima4a]

I currently have an Integra DHC 80.3 prepro (~Onkyo 5509) and would like to upgrade. At this point I have ruled out the Marantz 8801. The Yamaha CX-A5000 may be better suited to the R series than the current Reference. So Bryston SP3, Krell Foundation, Classe' SSP-800 or new Sigma is what is left. What would match best with 205/2s as mains?

Have two independent comments on sometimes harshness with the SP3 for what it's worth.

 

[WishTree]

I currently have an Integra DHC 80.3 prepro (~Onkyo 5509) and would like to upgrade. At this point I have ruled out the Marantz 8801. The Yamaha CX-A5000 may be better suited to the R series than the current Reference. So Bryston SP3, Krell Foundation, Classe' SSP-800 or new Sigma is what is left. What would match best with 205/2s as mains?

Have two independent comments on sometimes harshness with the SP3 for what it's worth.

I had run Classe (SSP-800 as well as CP-800) into Kef Reference 201/2 and it is one of the best synergy that I ever had (and a friend of mine is still using Classe SSP 800 with KEF Reference) I can fully recommend it but it was with Classe amplification as well. I do not know any thing about Bryston. Based on what I heard, I would be definetly auditioning Arcam pre-pro to match with KEF reference speakers (In my head that makes a lot more synergy)

 

[clinton333]

I too have no experience with the SP3 or your current Bryston amplification but I can wholly vouch for the synergy of the Arcam pre-pro with Kef Reference.

I would certainly look to demo both the outgoing AV888 and the incoming AV950 with the P777 and your fantastic speakers.

 

[Jima4a]

I currently have an Integra DHC 80.3 prepro (~Onkyo 5509) and would like to upgrade. At this point I have ruled out the Marantz 8801. The Yamaha CX-A5000 may be better suited to the R series than the current Reference. So Bryston SP3, Krell Foundation, Classe' SSP-800 or new Sigma is what is left. What would match best with 205/2s as mains?

Have two independent comments on sometimes harshness with the SP3 for what it's worth.

I had run Classe (SSP-800 as well as CP-800) into Kef Reference 201/2 and it is one of the best synergy that I ever had (and a friend of mine is still using Classe SSP 800 with KEF Reference) I can fully recommend it but it was with Classe amplification as well. I do not know any thing about Bryston. Based on what I heard, I would be definetly auditioning Arcam pre-pro to match with KEF reference speakers (In my head that makes a lot more synergy)

thanks for the input! I am in the Southeast US, Florida panhandle near Alabama, so access to audition many brands is quite limited. The closest Classe' dealer is near Birmingham (Alabama) about a five hour drive one way. Arcam is also a bit rare but luckily my local dealer has Arcam so good on that account. I would have to buy sight unseen (or heard). I actually had not put Anthem or Arcam on my list as they have a buggy reputation but know both are great sounding. He sells Bryston, Harmon (JBL & Revel among others), Wisdom Audio, Arcam and now Magico. I will give him a call.

 

[WishTree]

I actually had not put Anthem or Arcam on my list as they have a buggy reputation but know both are great sounding. He sells Bryston, Harmon (JBL & Revel among others), Wisdom Audio, Arcam and now Magico. I will give him a call.

That is the classic dilemna. Buggy product, unpolished interface with great sound. I had HK990 amp. What an amp! But 3 of them blew.

In the end, peace of mind at the astronomical price range is worth the possible slight compromise, if any, on SQ!

My suggestion to audition Arcam is only to see what is possible and if and only if the dealer offers a great support then worth the risk. IMO.

I am still biassed to Classe SSP 800 as that is the best I ever had! I mentioned else where, it beats CP-800 very easily (as to my taste) and with your 205/2 (vs 201/2 that I had) it might sound more fuller

..AND no problems with the SSP 800. I had a used (about 3 years old) and it worked like brand new !!

 

[CnoEvil]

I currently have an Integra DHC 80.3 prepro (~Onkyo 5509) and would like to upgrade. At this point I have ruled out the Marantz 8801. The Yamaha CX-A5000 may be better suited to the R series than the current Reference. So Bryston SP3, Krell Foundation, Classe' SSP-800 or new Sigma is what is left. What would match best with 205/2s as mains?

Have two independent comments on sometimes harshness with the SP3 for what it's worth.

I had run Classe (SSP-800 as well as CP-800) into Kef Reference 201/2 and it is one of the best synergy that I ever had (and a friend of mine is still using Classe SSP 800 with KEF Reference) I can fully recommend it but it was with Classe amplification as well. I do not know any thing about Bryston. Based on what I heard, I would be definetly auditioning Arcam pre-pro to match with KEF reference speakers (In my head that makes a lot more synergy)

thanks for the input! I am in the Southeast US, Florida panhandle near Alabama, so access to audition many brands is quite limited. The closest Classe' dealer is near Birmingham (Alabama) about a five hour drive one way. Arcam is also a bit rare but luckily my local dealer has Arcam so good on that account. I would have to buy sight unseen (or heard). I actually had not put Anthem or Arcam on my list as they have a buggy reputation but know both are great sounding. He sells Bryston, Harmon (JBL & Revel among others), Wisdom Audio, Arcam and now Magico. I will give him a call.

Another vote for Arcam here; though I'd be looking at the new range. as the feedback has been good so far, with regard to bugs.

 

[nomismo]

Hi to all,

It's been along time since i last took a look on this site and i'm please to find this particular thread.

I have a pair of Reference 203 mk 2's,had them for 4 years now and still in love with them.

Thease sit at the end of my system which comprised of

Meridian G08:2 cd

Meridian G02 pre

Meridian 557 power X2

Abrahamsen V6 dac

Cambridge Audio NP30 streamer

Ready nas duo as a NAS.

Cables:- All interconnects are Chord Anthem 2's (xlr's)

Speaker cables Chord Epic.

Each speaker stand on 5x 15mm granite slabs giving 30kg of mass under each.

My room is dual purpose, listening/t.v/lounge.

My music taste has always been, if it sounds good i'll listen to it.

Now the children have grown and left the nest i'm keen to try valve amplifiers, somthing i've not heard for years,and i'm interested if any one here could recomend some for trialing.

Thanks for looking

Si

 

[nomismo]

Hi to all,

It's been along time since i last took a look on this site and i'm please to find this particular thread.

I have a pair of Reference 203 mk 2's,had them for 4 years now and still in love with them.

Thease sit at the end of my system which comprised of

Meridian G08:2 cd

Meridian G02 pre

Meridian 557 power X2

Abrahamsen V6 dac

Cambridge Audio NP30 streamer

Ready nas duo as a NAS.

Cables:- All interconnects are Chord Anthem 2's (xlr's)

Speaker cables Chord Epic.

Each speaker stand on 5x 15mm granite slabs giving 30kg of mass under each.

My room is dual purpose, listening/t.v/lounge.

My music taste has always been, if it sounds good i'll listen to it.

Now the children have grown and left the nest i'm keen to try valve amplifiers, somthing i've not heard for years,and i'm interested if any one here could recomend some for trialing.

Thanks for looking

Si

 

[nomismo]

Hi to all,

It's been along time since i last took a look on this site and i'm please to find this particular thread.

I have a pair of Reference 203 mk 2's,had them for 4 years now and still in love with them.

Thease sit at the end of my system which comprised of

Meridian G08:2 cd

Meridian G02 pre

Meridian 557 power X2

Abrahamsen V6 dac

Cambridge Audio NP30 streamer

Ready nas duo as a NAS.

Cables:- All interconnects are Chord Anthem 2's (xlr's)

Speaker cables Chord Epic.

Each speaker stand on 5x 15mm granite slabs giving 30kg of mass under each.

My room is dual purpose, listening/t.v/lounge.

My music taste has always been, if it sounds good i'll listen to it.

Now the children have grown and left the nest i'm keen to try valve amplifiers, somthing i've not heard for years,and i'm interested if any one here could recomend some for trialing.

Thanks for looking

Si

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi to all,

It's been along time since i last took a look on this site and i'm please to find this particular thread.

I have a pair of Reference 203 mk 2's,had them for 4 years now and still in love with them.

Thease sit at the end of my system which comprised of

Meridian G08:2 cd

Meridian G02 pre

Meridian 557 power X2

Abrahamsen V6 dac

Cambridge Audio NP30 streamer

Ready nas duo as a NAS.

Cables:- All interconnects are Chord Anthem 2's (xlr's)

Speaker cables Chord Epic.

Each speaker stand on 5x 15mm granite slabs giving 30kg of mass under each.

My room is dual purpose, listening/t.v/lounge.

My music taste has always been, if it sounds good i'll listen to it.

Now the children have grown and left the nest i'm keen to try valve amplifiers, somthing i've not heard for years,and i'm interested if any one here could recomend some for trialing.

Thanks for looking

Si

I'm also delighted that you found this thread and have decided to post.

The Amps you might like to consider are from (though you don't mention a budget):

- Icon Audio (Monoblocks)

- McIntosh

- VTL

I think they also sound lovely with the Class A Musical Fidelity AMS 35i.

Other Class A Amps to consider would be from

- Sugden (Masterclass)

- Accuphase

- Luxman.

 

[mofojo]

Consider the Cayin A-100T. Don't let the price fool you. It's a beast. The only tube set ups i have heard are the cayin and Mac2275. IMO the Cayin bested the Mac in every area especially dynamics. I'm picking up a Cayin 265ai on Monday. Will be my first class A amplifier.

 

[Freddy58]

Hiya folks.

I could have started a new thread, but thought I'd ask here.

Has anyone ever changed (upgraded) their T33 tweeters? As I understand it, some of the reference series had these. If you have, what did you replace them with? What was the difference?

Thanks...Freddy

 

[Jima4a]

Well the Arcam AV950 will be about $9500 US which matches the SSP-800, SP3 and D2v 3D. Anybody know when the 950 will be released?