The Kef Reference thread

[Frank Harvey]

I spoke to Kef US about the new Reference line and the Baby Blades yesterday but forgot to ask if the new Reference have grills or not. Not sure I would want that shiny surface for home cinema. I sure they wouldn't have done this without sonic benefits. It will be interesting to see how the new line compares to the 20X/2s and the price competition. Got to admit a pair of Blade IIs in blue would be pretty sweet.

I'm sure the new Reference will have magnetic grilles.

The Reference price points don't seem too dissimilar to Sonus Faber's Olympica range, so that will be the main range we will compare them too when they appear.

As for comparing them to the current Reference series, the current range is still quite competitive, but it will now be up against Blade quality drivers, just in a more conventional looking cabinet. If the new Reference series is a step up like the R series was over the XQ series, I'm confident the Reference 1s can more than compete with the 203/2s. The 207s never really produced the bass that they looked like they could produce based on the size of the drivers and cabinet volume - they were more about effortlessness. Again, using Blade quality drivers, I'm sure the Reference 5s will impress.

Reference 5 vs Blade 2 - the Blade was a completely different league compared to the current Reference series, but I think the difference in this comparison will be smaller, as they based on the same technology. How close can they get? We'll have to wait and see. There's a dealer launch at the middle of next month, so I'll be able to answer those questions more accurately.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Titbits of goss garnered from dealer today (IIRC):

- Ref 1/3/5 available around end June

- Sub and Centre to follow

- Non standard colours / finishes +20%

- Current Refs available for 6 months

- Kef quietly pleased with the new Refs...which all give better detail / resolution than current 207/2s

- Bass units same type as those in Baby Blade

I'm sure David will correct any details that I have got wrong....which is highly likely, given my memory.

I may be able to confirm things better Monday, as I've heard nothing concrete with regards to availability yet.

I believe the non standard finishes (luxury gloss rosewood) are an extra 10%, and the Kent Engineering Foundry finishes an extra 20%.

I don't know about the continuing availability of the current Reference range, but as much of it is made to order, I can only presume it'll be available until the new stuff appears.

The UniQ driver used in the Reference range is identical to that of the Blade - I would presume the bass drivers are as well, you're just not getting the benefit of force cancelling and the inert cabinet.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Titbits of goss garnered from dealer today (IIRC):

- Ref 1/3/5 available around end June

- Sub and Centre to follow

- Non standard colours / finishes +20%

- Current Refs available for 6 months

- Kef quietly pleased with the new Refs...which all give better detail / resolution than current 207/2s

- Bass units same type as those in Baby Blade

I'm sure David will correct any details that I have got wrong....which is highly likely, given my memory.

Ok. There are NO confirmed dates as yet regarding availability of the new Reference range. I'll probably know a little more about that at the dealer launch at the middle of next month.

There's no telling how long the current Reference range will be available for - could be 3 months, could be 3 weeks.

Nothing is set in stone yet regarding the pricing of non standard finishes. And for the record, Luxury Gloss Rosewood isn't a standard finish, and will come in at the price set for the premium finishes.

All drive units in the new Reference series are the same quality as those used in the Blades.

 

[CnoEvil]

Ok. There are NO confirmed dates as yet regarding availability of the new Reference range. I'll probably know a little more about that at the dealer launch at the middle of next month.

There's no telling how long the current Reference range will be available for - could be 3 months, could be 3 weeks.

Nothing is set in stone yet regarding the pricing of non standard finishes. And for the record, Luxury Gloss Rosewood isn't a standard finish, and will come in at the price set for the premium finishes.

All drive units in the new Reference series are the same quality as those used in the Blades.

Thx David.

Remember to keep us updated.

Ps. Do they definitely have grills?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Ps. Do they definitely have grills?

I remembered to ask that - after I'd put the phone down

I'll find out...

 

[Richard Allen]

Slightly off topic but I've gotta say, those baby Blades look the biz. Think I'm gonna have a listen to them. I'm sure I won't be disappointed.

 

[wilro15]

Yeah the Blade Twos and Reference 1/3/5 really look the business. All I have to do is figure out who/what I can sell/steal/beg/borrow in order to get them!

 

[DocG]

Yeah the Blade Twos and Reference 1/3/5 really look the business. All I have to do is figure out who/what I can sell/steal/beg/borrow in order to get them!

If you're healthy, you can be paid good money for a kidney nowadays!

 

[Frank Harvey]

Ps. Do they definitely have grills?

To be advised...

 

[wilro15]

Yeah the Blade Twos and Reference 1/3/5 really look the business. All I have to do is figure out who/what I can sell/steal/beg/borrow in order to get them!

If you're healthy, you can be paid good money for a kidney nowadays!

Good point! I don't *need* two kidneys anyway, pretty sure they can operate in mono.

 

[matt49]

Ps. Do they definitely have grills?

Surely not. That would cause terrible thermal distortion.

EDIT Oh, you mean grilles ...

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I like the outgoing reference series a lot better! The new Reference looks more like R Series (and remind me of Piega speakers - may be the aluminium front baffle)

Hi WishTree

I like the previous Reference range (Model 3.2, 4.2, etc) a lot better! Thankfully with the looks of the new Reference at least they've moved away from looking like 800 Series. I see what you also mean about the new speakers looking somewhat like Piega speakers.

Anyway the main thing is how this new range of speakers perform.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[CnoEvil]

Ps. Do they definitely have grills?

Surely not. That would cause terrible thermal distortion.

EDIT Oh, you mean grilles ...

:doh:

 

[nopiano]

Having not been enthusiastic in my first, and early, listen to the original Blade, I have a hunch the smaller one will be better in 90% of installations as I felt the big ones need a lot of space to breathe.

 

[gokulramesh]

Hifi is so subjective.and taste driven, that I hesitate to tell others what to buy......all I can do is give you my preferences.

I find Chord stuff too forward sounding so I would take the Nad by default.

My source of preference would be the Linn DS. On the amp front, I would be looking at Electrocompaniet, Plinius (Class A), Sugden Masterclass and Musical Fidelity AMS range. I find the mixture of my MF AMS 35i +205/2s very beguiling......if I had the funds, I would love the AMS Primo + AMS 50 + 207/2s.

If most of my suggestions are not available, my taste would point me towards the Electro stuff.......it will all come down to budget and availability.

If I can be of further assistance, just shout.

Cno

Sorry to go off topic here guys,

Dear Cno,

The guy who was to sell me his poweramp backed off in the last minute and because of that I still havent been able to setup my system.

Coming to the topic of poweramps, my dealer has suggested me three models, the Adcom GFA-555 SE monoblocks, Electrocompaniet AW250R and AW400 monoblocks. He says that he has installed a good number of Adcoms to his cutomers and has recieved good feedback, and i've never even heard of the name Adcom before, and hence have no idea about it. The AW250R is just a tad above my budget, but i just dont seem to get excited about it, something seems missing. Probably an audition should clear things up a little. Feels like i should rather go for the AW400.

Now i really like the AW400, but its way over my poweramp budget. infact the new one is just double my budget. Is it really worth the money? I have heard these monoblocks and i really love them, the only advantage i see here is that, probably i would never need to change my poweramp, like ever.

Coming back to your suggestion of the Musical Fidelity AMS50, I have some doubts. I know that its complete Class A, but do you think 50 WPC will be enough to drive the REF 207/2? The recommended range is 50 - 400 watts, and my dealer says that it will run the speakers, but not comfortably enough. He says the 207/2's require atleast 250 watts, which gives a comfortable headroom for dynamics and volume. I'm still trying to make sense of this, please enlighten me, lol.

Lastly, I'm also considering the NAD M2 Direct Digital Amplifier, just because my source is the NAD M50 and M52 combo. But then again, I dont think i'd go that way as future upgrades would require me to invest in a DAC, pre and power combo. just a thought. if anyone has heard the NAD M2, please leave your opinion.

Thnaks in advance,

Gokul Ramesh.

Ps: Not so impressed by the new Reference line up, but baby blades look awesome! And i'm not really sure, but i did read somewhere that the Muon was also upgraded to include the UniQ driver.

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry to go off topic here guys,

Dear Cno,

The guy who was to sell me his poweramp backed off in the last minute and because of that I still havent been able to setup my system.

Coming to the topic of poweramps, my dealer has suggested me three models, the Adcom GFA-555 SE monoblocks, Electrocompaniet AW250R and AW400 monoblocks. He says that he has installed a good number of Adcoms to his cutomers and has recieved good feedback, and i've never even heard of the name Adcom before, and hence have no idea about it. The AW250R is just a tad above my budget, but i just dont seem to get excited about it, something seems missing. Probably an audition should clear things up a little. Feels like i should rather go for the AW400.

Now i really like the AW400, but its way over my poweramp budget. infact the new one is just double my budget. Is it really worth the money? I have heard these monoblocks and i really love them, the only advantage i see here is that, probably i would never need to change my poweramp, like ever.

Coming back to your suggestion of the Musical Fidelity AMS50, I have some doubts. I know that its complete Class A, but do you think 50 WPC will be enough to drive the REF 207/2? The recommended range is 50 - 400 watts, and my dealer says that it will run the speakers, but not comfortably enough. He says the 207/2's require atleast 250 watts, which gives a comfortable headroom for dynamics and volume. I'm still trying to make sense of this, please enlighten me, lol.

Lastly, I'm also considering the NAD M2 Direct Digital Amplifier, just because my source is the NAD M50 and M52 combo. But then again, I dont think i'd go that way as future upgrades would require me to invest in a DAC, pre and power combo. just a thought. if anyone has heard the NAD M2, please leave your opinion.

in advance,

Gokul Ramesh.

Ps: Not so impressed by the new Reference line up, but baby blades look awesome! And i'm not really sure, but i did read somewhere that the Muon was also upgraded to include the UniQ driver.

You are not going off topic, as I started this thread to talk about Refs, which includes the best way to drive them.

I have never heard of Adcom, so can't comment on that.

I can only talk about my preferences......and which you go for, may depend on the Pre you decide on:

My first choice would be the AMS 50, which should be able to drive the 207/2s no problem....it doubles its power into 4 Ohms (and if it's like the 35i, will double into 2 Ohms as well). It has a massive transformer and has a peak to peak current of 100 Amps....it could run an Arc Welder!

Next choice would be the Electro, which you would need to hear in order to decide if the more powerful one is the way to go.

My third choice would be the Nad.

Do not scrimp on the Pre, which if you go for the MF, imo should be the Primo; and the Electro Pre with its Power amps.

When spending this amount of money, you need to listen for yourself, and given the New Reference Range is imminent, bargain hard.

Good Luck, and let us know how it goes.

 

[Jima4a]

I do not have the experience of Cno or Dav1dF, but the first time I heard 105/3s was with a Krell 100wpc Class A stereo amp with a Krell preamp and CD player. The second time was same 105/3s in same room but now a Lexicon processor and 200 watt Adcom monos. Both times listened to REMs Radio Free Europe at start. First time chills, second not. Also heard other Adcoms with B&Ws, good but not great. I would recommend Parasound JC1s for the 207/2s. Also, Cno is spot on for the pre, very important IMO and my next upgrade area.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Never been keen on Adcom stuff, always seemed a bit dull to me. And yes, the pre is VERY important - this can make or break a system.

 

[hifikrazy]

Also agree that the preamp is darn important. It's more than just a source selector and volume control.

 

[TrevC]

Also agree that the preamp is darn important. It's more than just a source selector and volume control.

A pot in a box and a selector , AKA passive pre, is all you need. In most integrateds that's usually all there is and all that is required . No point in having unnecessary gain.

 

[hifikrazy]

Also agree that the preamp is darn important. It's more than just a source selector and volume control.

A pot in a box and a selector , AKA passive pre, is all you need. In most integrateds that's usually all there is and all that is required . No point in having unnecessary gain.

Nonsense

 

[TrevC]

Also agree that the preamp is darn important. It's more than just a source selector and volume control.

A pot in a box and a selector , AKA passive pre, is all you need. In most integrateds that's usually all there is and all that is required . No point in having unnecessary gain.

Nonsense

Why is it nonsense?

 

[hifikrazy]

Considering that you obviously think the entire hifi industry is a conspiracy to rip consumers off with items that offer no audible benefits whatsoever, I'm guessing the below comprises your entire system...

 

[TrevC]

Considering that you obviously think the entire hifi industry is a conspiracy to rip consumers off with items that offer no audible benefits whatsoever.

I don't think that at all, although the aftermarket cable market is cures for non-existent problems.

All that's in a passive preamp is a pot and selector switch and at line levels that will work fine. It's a fact. There are many glowing reviews for passive pre's.

An example of the breed.

 

[gokulramesh]

Thanks a lot for your comments guys, I always had that gut feeling i shouldn't go for them adcoms. no offence.

Now its Electrocompaniet AW400 Monoblocs vs Musical Fidelity AMS50! And just as Cno said, "Hifi is so subjective and taste driven" So i guess there is no point in arguing which one is better. Only an audition will clear things up. Luckily, there happens to be a Musical Fidelity dealer in Chennai, with the AMS50 in stock. I'm so excited now, will let you guys know how things go.

One other factor in play here is my room. Its about 20 ft long, 22 ft wide and 12 ft high, furnished room with no sound treatment. Now my thought is that I know for a fact that the AW400's are a bit bass heavy, and so is the 207/2 (in a non treated room). Whereas on the other hand, I've heard that the AMS50 is more warm. The big confusion here is that I havent even auditioned the Focal Chorus 836 V that i have in my home theater in this room. The only speakers that are here are the JBL Jembe's which i use for the computer.

So my gut feeling is telling me that the right choice would be the warm sounding AMS50 with the 207/2. What say you guys? I do listen to a lot of mainstream indian movie songs and hip hop and rap now and then, but I dont think that should be a problem. And who doesnt love a warm sounding amp, lol.

Yes, I do agree that a Pre amp is very important, period. I've personally felt the difference it made to my friends system, when he switched over from a Naim pre to a Chord one. I have currently chosen the NAD M51 to be my DAC and Pre amp, as it goes well with my source components, the NAD M50 + M52. Plus its got awesome reviews and has a Class A rating on the Stereophile Recommended components 2014. Anyhow, this is my area for future upgrades. So the power amp coice is even more crucial here because of the dependancy on the pre-power combos both EC and MF offer.

Thanks again guys for your patience, and sharing you views.