SVS Pb-2000 vs Arendal Sub 1

[nugget2014]

i've only just realised the arendal sub 1 is about £700, as it is between 850 and 900 euros from lsound depending on finish, on my next sub upgrade i am definetly considering between the two, but how does the arendal compare to the svs? bigger 13.8" driver but sealed, not ported. and may have less peak power but same RMS, 5-10 extra db at 20hz is no big deal to me as it still outperforms my dali. which would work in my 14ft by 9ft room? i may like the sound of sealed more than ported. i'd get the sub 2 but getting the smaller one gives me option of going dual if needed in the future.

what would the bigger driver acomplish, more maximum output is that it or are there other benefits?

 

[bigboss]

I was once told by a dealer in 2009....buy the biggest, ugliest subwoofer you can afford. I can't call Arendal subs ugly by any stretch of imagination, but there are advantages of the larger cabinet size of the sub 2. I cannot comment on comparison with SVS, but in my mind, 2 drivers are better than 1.

I will be going for a single sub 2 as opposed to dual sub 1. I did read on AV forums that some are going for dual sub 1s instead.

 

[ellisdj]

BB get duals - you know you can afford it - its much better and allows more flexibility with setup options

 

[bigboss]

Space is an issue. Not the biggest of living rooms. I'll get one and see how much space it occupies, and take it from there.

I asked L Sound, and this is the reply I got (my question is under the response):

Jan (L-Sound)
May 16, 09:25

Hi,

thanks for getting back to us.

I would not say a subwoofer is too big for a room as it comes more to how its tuned for that room and how it performs in both frequency response and of course sound wise.

Subwoofer 1 would be a nice upgrade over the DXD-808 but if you want to go the little extra if you are going to take the step up, the Subwoofer 2 would be a very good upgrade. Subwoofer 2 is also better performing than the KK DXD-12012.

Subwoofer 2 is sealed with dual 13.8" drivers which offers a tremendously dynamics (impulse response) and power. It also digs deep (below 20Hz in-room) but it has the same balance as DXD-808 only with more headroom and authority.

I would go for the Subwoofer 2.
Best Regards,
Jan Ove Lassesen

This was my question:

Hi, this is the floor plan of my lounge:

http://media.rightmove.co.uk/39k/38019/30700101/38019_24974902_FLP_01_0000_max_600x600.jpg

The dimensions of the lounge are: 16'5" x 12'2" (5.00m x 3.71m) - (Plus bay window which measures 6'11" x 3'2"). The length is more like 16'5" due to a false wall for AV.

I currently have KK DXD808 which I bought from you couple of years ago. It's placed in the bay window area (behind the sofa) and works well in that position. I'm looking for increased performance.

Which Arendal Sound subwoofer in your opinion is most suited for me to try? Is there anything such as a subwoofer being too big for the room? Sealed or ported?

Thanks.

 

[bigboss]

http://media.rightmove.co.uk/39k/38019/30700101/38019_24974902_FLP_01_00...

 

[nugget2014]

difficult to pick, as i've been advised to go for the svs over the arendal, for imax levels while watching action movies it goes deeper at higher volumes. but does it really matter either way if i wasnt to have it at reference levels?

would they both be more equal at a set volume?

i don't want to get the sub 1, and be disappointed and wish i got an svs.

 

[ellisdj]

I think you need to make sure whatever you buy you have the option to return it in case you buy the wrong option or it doesn't give you the output you want.

 

[bigboss]

Yes exactly. They have a 60 day trial offer.

Another response from them today:

1) Arendal sub 2 vs sub 3 for my room? Sealed vs ported?

Subwoofer 3 will be a better option for most rooms in sealed as it just goes deeper with similar dynamics and frequency response. If you have the space and budget for it, you will get a better subwoofer due to its size. However, Subwoofer 2 is a brilliant subwoofer and will be a great upgrade from your DXD-808.

2) Dual sub 1s as opposed to single sub 2?

If you stack dual Subwoofer 1 it will be performing a bit better than a single Subwoofer 2, plus it will couple better to the room since you stack them. However Subwoofer 2 has its advantage over Subwoofer 1 with its Dual Driver configuration where it cancels out cabinet vibrations better.

Best Regards,
Jan Ove Lassesen

 

[ellisdj]

BB Our rooms are very simialr in size mate which is uncanny - but yours is very live by the looks of it, mine is the opposite so I lose some headroom for a tight sound bear that in mind.

The Sub 3 is the only one I would consider but the sealed freq response concerns me for how I setup a sub - if you sit on a boundary maybe the gain you get will counteract the tapering freq response nicely. I get a Lot of Gain at 30hz in this room I dare say you will as well to so it could balance out nicely but naturally I want +6db at 30hz for my house curve.

In contrast the BK XLS400 I had before was nowhere near + 6db at 30hz, it was falling sharply from 40hz

You sitting right on top of the sub nearfield you will definately benefit from dual opposed drivers for a cleaner output so rule of the Sub1 because if it makes any box noise you will hear it

 

[ellisdj]

Hi BB I have been meaning to comment on this - I added a darbee to my setup about a week ago - cracking unit, its expensive for what it does in a way but when you turn it on and off the difference is dramatic enough I feel for it to be a keeper.

I have had a few handshake issues but I have worked out you need to turn the blu ray player on before the PJ and that sorts it out.

I have the Darbee wired in between the Blu Ray and PJ at the Blu Ray end of the hdmi run

 

[bigboss]

Agreed, the purists don't like Darbee much, but I am impressed with it as well (my Oppo has Darbee). I think it's certainly worth it for PJ.

 

[bigboss]

Back on the topic, I do like Sub 3, just need to check dimensions again. I will be restricted with positioning though, if I go for it.

 

[ellisdj]

That is going to have a lot of output in a live room - it will excite the rooms modes for sure - are you using Auddessey for bass management?

 

[bigboss]

I've found Audyssey to be a little tame for bass management. So I have manually bumped it up a bit. I'm thinking of getting Antimode as well.

 

[ellisdj]

I think better off get a mini dsp with Dirac - more control then of whats going on

Or an Arcam 850

 

[bigboss]

Dirac doesn't do Atmos (overhead speakers) yet. Part in me thinks gong for Anthem MRX1120 when funds allow.

 

[Frank Harvey]

BB - have you considered a second DXD808? You can then experiment with placing subs in different places or stacking.

I've not heard the Arundel subs so I can't say how they compare to the KKs, but I haven't heard any subs yet that do what the KKs do, regardless of claims made. Larger subs (or subs with larger drivers) usually lack the punch of smaller drivers in small/average size rooms. I think I would have been better going for two 808s in my room instead of a 12012.

I don't know if you were selling your 808 first or not, but if you can, I would hang onto it while trying the Arundel. No doubt the Arundel will have more bass, but those who appreciate quality know there more to subwoofer bass than quantity, depth, and outright SPL. It's nice to have, but I think those who aren't of the 'car sub fraternity' would sacrifice any or all three of the above for what Ken Kreisel's designs do.

I can't sell you anything here, just giving some impartial advice

 

[nugget2014]

Yes i could return. But it seems to be like £80 to do so which is a lot. I could demo the kef t2 or q400b sealed subs at RS soon just to see if i prefer sealed or ported style for both music and movies. I know it wont be on the same level. Would it matter?

 

[nugget2014]

It all comes down to my original goal which is the sub that can recreate the ability to feel the bass also. Would The bigger sealed sub be better at this? I cant remember exactly but im sure i read sealed subs are better all the way past 40hz or so. And im sure ellis told me to turn my crossover up as around 100hz you feel stuff. And i also read online your chest resonates at 40hz

For an extra 400 the sub 2 is tempting. But id have to go longer without an upgrade to save up for that. Depending if i need duals or not on the new layout.

 

[ellisdj]

I think David while is being honest and its not bad advice but is missing that KK subs are not the be all and end all subs by any stretch - the guy who designed the Arendals has done loads of testing on subs and then worked out how to get the best of what he wants from them I think. He has dual Sub 3's says it all - I think if you like KK you will like these.

He tested the DXD12012 and did like it a lot - I have personally had first hand experience of its direct relative and to be honest I much prefer my SB13 Ultra. What I get out of these subs is pretty incredible and I dont just mean output I mean tight detailed and textured bass, real high quality music bass with serious guts and good punch now for films - better than I have heard anywhere from loads of systems and subs that are equivalent.

I have to hand the most serious bass to a 16 x 12 sub Steinway setup I heard a week or so ago - the scale of bass on that was an Imax beater no doubt just incredible scale of sound and power.

Scaling down to small rooms the importance of big bass remains.

Still waiting for SVS to produce a dual Ultra like the Gotham for 1/4 price

 

[ellisdj]

Dirac doesn't do Atmos (overhead speakers) yet. Part in me thinks gong for Anthem MRX1120 when funds allow.

I meant for Bass only - the best thing about this is it puts people on a learning curve understanding room freq reponse and more important bass freq reponse.

This is basic info and skill but so important to high quality sound - so any or more understanding is very useful.

I think in a very live room you will need comprehensive bass management - Antimode is good because it uses the same filters as REW bvy all accounts which is a bit over zelous but genrally is spot on - Dirac on the other hand as I say you can visually see whats going so you start leaning about how good or bad your sub placement is - VITAL -Ears are no judge of this as I have said before.

But then you have actual control of the shape of the sound - this is the Game Changer in my view!!

I have had experience of ARC and PBK and you can keep it in my eyes

 

[Frank Harvey]

Yes i could return. But it seems to be like £80 to do so which is a lot. I could demo the kef t2 or q400b sealed subs at RS soon just to see if i prefer sealed or ported style for both music and movies. I know it wont be on the same level. Would it matter?

Yes. Most subs under £500 will be sealed. A ported sub, if designed properly, needs to be bigger, and therefore cost more to produce. The quality difference between entry level subs and quality subs is pretty big. Budget subs won't really give you the full picture of what to expect from a better quality sub.

Sealed subs are generally punchier, and easier to blend into a room. Ported subs more fun for movies, as they tend to produce more low down rumble with more output (although very little under the port tune frequency), so sealed has the ability to reach deeper as it isn't restricted in the same way.

 

[ellisdj]

It all comes down to my original goal which is the sub that can recreate the ability to feel the bass also. Would The bigger sealed sub be better at this? I cant remember exactly but im sure i read sealed subs are better all the way past 40hz or so. And im sure ellis told me to turn my crossover up as around 100hz you feel stuff. And i also read online your chest resonates at 40hz

For an extra 400 the sub 2 is tempting. But id have to go longer without an upgrade to save up for that. Depending if i need duals or not on the new layout.

A sealed sub is compromised in output because its inefficient - so it needs much more power and room gain - i.e. putting it in a corner.

Testing a 200w Kef sub is not really a good test because it doesnt really have any power - you need to go and hear some proper subs - make the effort and see if it gives you what you are looking for - otherwise your going to go round in a goose chase and with £80 return costs you stand to lose a lot of money. How much is a train fare to your nearest dealers that can offer this then maybe weigh up whats better money spent. Going to hear other systems is your learnign curve of whats good / bad what you like / dont and what can or cant be achieved - Vital experience

I do think swapping the room around will bring other benefits not just to the bass - wider front sound stage for starters - not crammed into the corner and more symetrical in placement to better presentation. Start there and see how you get - I would expect the bass to be similar though because your sitting in the same spot in a rectangle room.

 

[nugget2014]

It all comes down to my original goal which is the sub that can recreate the ability to feel the bass also. Would The bigger sealed sub be better at this? I cant remember exactly but im sure i read sealed subs are better all the way past 40hz or so. And im sure ellis told me to turn my crossover up as around 100hz you feel stuff. And i also read online your chest resonates at 40hz

For an extra 400 the sub 2 is tempting. But id have to go longer without an upgrade to save up for that. Depending if i need duals or not on the new layout.

A sealed sub is compromised in output because its inefficient - so it needs much more power and room gain - i.e. putting it in a corner.

Testing a 200w Kef sub is not really a good test because it doesnt really have any power - you need to go and hear some proper subs - make the effort and see if it gives you what you are looking for - otherwise your going to go round in a goose chase and with £80 return costs you stand to lose a lot of money.  How much is a train fare to your nearest dealers that can offer this then maybe weigh up whats better money spent.  Going to hear other systems is your learnign curve of whats good / bad what you like / dont and what can or cant be achieved - Vital experience

I do think swapping the room around will bring other benefits not just to the bass - wider front sound stage for starters - not crammed into the corner and more symetrical in placement to better presentation.  Start there and see how you get - I would expect the bass to be similar though because your sitting in the same spot in a rectangle room.

Think im going to do it next wednesday. Regarding demoing nobody stocks arendal do they in the UK? Thats the only one id want to demo. I know i wouldnt need one for svs.

Will see what happens with the room. Today i might do the sub test with sofa facing other way and moved. Do i have to recalibrate it with the sub on the listening position when doing sub crawl?

 

[bigboss]

Thanks David, appreciate your advice. No, I won't sell my 808 without demoing the next sub thoroughly. The problem with dual 808s is:

1) I don't have space to stack them up.

2) They're not available for sale anymore, and I'll have to wait for a second hand model.

I'm not buying anything imminently. Just weighing the pros and cons of each before deciding.