Speaker isolation... again (Why could it work?)

insider9

Well-known member
I've been wondering about this subject for a while. I'm tempted to get myself a set of Isoacoustic Gaia II feet. I would take measurements to confirm what is actually happening.

However I'd like to understand first what it is that's supposedly happening and why it could be. I don't care what impact it has on sound quality for purpose of this thread. Just the science bit behind it.

Does anyone have any links to any measurements or anyone reputable discussing this subject?

I found this (below) and it's hard to argue that the person in question doesn't know what he's talking about.
 
insider9 said:
I've been wondering about this subject for a while. I'm tempted to get myself a set of Isoacoustic Gaia II feet. I would take measurements to confirm what is actually happening.

However I'd like to understand first what it is that's supposedly happening and why it could be. I don't care what impact it has on sound quality for purpose of this thread. Just the science bit behind it.

Does anyone have any links to any measurements or anyone reputable discussing this subject?

I found this (below) and it's hard to argue that the person in question doesn't know what he's talking about.

I have been seriously considering those feet for my Adagios as I have had to move them from lounge ( solid concrete carpeted floor ) to the bedroom ( suspended wooden floor).

I shall be watching this thread with interest.

P.S.: couldn't justify the price of the Townshend equipment stands even though they are considered very effective.
 

insider9

Well-known member
My thoughts exactly Al. I've even tried some timbre boards to see if I can get any measurable effects but to no avail. I'm not opposed to spending and not opposed to things I don't understand but there is just too much foo merchants targeting this hobby.
 

Gazzip

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Al ears said:
insider9 said:
I've been wondering about this subject for a while. I'm tempted to get myself a set of Isoacoustic Gaia II feet. I would take measurements to confirm what is actually happening.

However I'd like to understand first what it is that's supposedly happening and why it could be. I don't care what impact it has on sound quality for purpose of this thread. Just the science bit behind it.

Does anyone have any links to any measurements or anyone reputable discussing this subject?

I found this (below) and it's hard to argue that the person in question doesn't know what he's talking about.

I have been seriously considering those feet for my Adagios as I have had to move them from lounge ( solid concrete carpeted floor ) to the bedroom ( suspended wooden floor).

I shall be watching this thread with interest.

P.S.: couldn't justify the price of the Townshend equipment stands even though they are considered very effective.

I was very impressed with the Townshend Seismic Podiums when I had PMC FACT 12’s sitting on them.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BOPXJDdwtk4
 

insider9

Well-known member
Appreciate the links but my question stands. What does it actually do? What would I have to measure to see a difference?

The tapping of the speakers with a seismograph only proves isolation not that in any way impacts on anything other than that. Are there any principles I should read about in order to educate myself?

Another question if these are so effective why speaker manufacturers don't integrate them in their designs? Surely cost to manufacturer would be a small fraction of what we pay and the benefit to end user massive.
 
Gazzip said:
Al ears said:
insider9 said:
I've been wondering about this subject for a while. I'm tempted to get myself a set of Isoacoustic Gaia II feet. I would take measurements to confirm what is actually happening.

However I'd like to understand first what it is that's supposedly happening and why it could be. I don't care what impact it has on sound quality for purpose of this thread. Just the science bit behind it.

Does anyone have any links to any measurements or anyone reputable discussing this subject?

I found this (below) and it's hard to argue that the person in question doesn't know what he's talking about.

I have been seriously considering those feet for my Adagios as I have had to move them from lounge ( solid concrete carpeted floor ) to the bedroom ( suspended wooden floor).

I shall be watching this thread with interest.

P.S.: couldn't justify the price of the Townshend equipment stands even though they are considered very effective.

I was very impressed with the Townshend Seismic Podiums when I had PMC FACT 12’s sitting on them.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BOPXJDdwtk4

The same item I couldn't really justify the price of. ;-)
 

Gazzip

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Jan 15, 2011
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insider9 said:
Appreciate the links but my question stands. What does it actually do? What would I have to measure to see a difference?

The tapping of the speakers with a seismograph only proves isolation not that in any way impacts on anything other than that. Are there any principles I should read about in order to educate myself?

Another question if these are so effective why speaker manufacturers don't integrate them in their designs? Surely cost to manufacturer would be a small fraction of what we pay and the benefit to end user massive.

If the cabinet is vibrating and it passes those vibrations back in to the driver cones then I would imagine that the vibration frequencies of those cones would be altered. Is this audible? Who knows. BTW PMC do use the Townshend Seismic Podiums when demonstrating their larger SE range in show conditions, so they obviously believe there is something in it...
 

Gazzip

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Al ears said:
Gazzip said:
Al ears said:
insider9 said:
I've been wondering about this subject for a while. I'm tempted to get myself a set of Isoacoustic Gaia II feet. I would take measurements to confirm what is actually happening.

However I'd like to understand first what it is that's supposedly happening and why it could be. I don't care what impact it has on sound quality for purpose of this thread. Just the science bit behind it.

Does anyone have any links to any measurements or anyone reputable discussing this subject?

I found this (below) and it's hard to argue that the person in question doesn't know what he's talking about.

I have been seriously considering those feet for my Adagios as I have had to move them from lounge ( solid concrete carpeted floor ) to the bedroom ( suspended wooden floor).

I shall be watching this thread with interest.

P.S.: couldn't justify the price of the Townshend equipment stands even though they are considered very effective.

I was very impressed with the Townshend Seismic Podiums when I had PMC FACT 12’s sitting on them.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BOPXJDdwtk4

The same item I couldn't really justify the price of. ;-)

Perhaps if you had actually tried them you might have felt them worth the price? *yes3*
 

CnoEvil

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insider9 said:
Appreciate the links but my question stands. What does it actually do? What would I have to measure to see a difference?

If you really want some answers, why don't you ring Track Audio and/or Townshend and ask to speak to one of their engineers....I'm sure they would be only too happy to oblige and may be able to give you measurements.

Personally, I want to know - a) Does it work (deteremined by listening) and b) What does it cost.

I'm then in a position to decide if the improvement is worth the money (for me). If I understand how it works (needs not to be too technical), that is a bonus.
 

abacus

Well-known member
It all depends on how well the speaker is built, the type of materiel it standing on and how the sound waves interact with the room.

If you want to try isolation to see whether it helps in your case, (Which will be completely different to somebody else’s system/room) pop over to your local pro music store (Or online store) and pick up some isolation pads from there, (Cost about a tenner) although it most cases isolation only helps if speakers are mounted on less sturdy equipment, (Office table for example) or some wooden floors. (Carpet itself is n isolator)

Do not buy any specialist isolators from manufactures that say they specialise in Hi-Fi isolation, as like cable manufactures they are just rip off merchants out make a quick buck with some gobbledegook.

As to the reasons they are sometimes needed, then look up acoustic treatment in recording studios, as that is what speaker isolation is part of.

Bill
 

insider9

Well-known member
In principle so do I. I don't intend this to be a negative post just trying to understand the concept better and whether the improvements could be universal or only applicable in certain situations.

I'm surprised if anything how very little (no) evidence is present relating to this. As a rule of thumb this puts a doubt in my mind.

Legal aspects aside you wouldn't launch a drug without clinical trials... Why launch a product like this without a solid scientific evidence?

This is an opportunity missed in my opinion and one which could stop the debates like this. Whenever I decide to pull the trigger I make any measurement available to test these. It annoys me that this data isn't available from manufacturers. I don't work for them so why should I be doing their work promoting their products (assuming there are measurable differences).
 

insider9

Well-known member
abacus said:
It all depends on how well the speaker is built, the type of materiel it standing on and how the sound waves interact with the room.

If you want to try isolation to see whether it helps in your case, (Which will be completely different to somebody else’s system/room) pop over to your local pro music store (Or online store) and pick up some isolation pads from there, (Cost about a tenner) although it most cases isolation only helps if speakers are mounted on less sturdy equipment, (Office table for example) or some wooden floors. (Carpet itself is n isolator)

Do not buy any specialist isolators from manufactures that say they specialise in Hi-Fi isolation, as like cable manufactures they are just rip off merchants out make a quick buck with some gobbledegook.

As to the reasons they are sometimes needed, then look up acoustic treatment in recording studios, as that is what speaker isolation is part of.

Bill
Yes I agree but the principles could or could not be shown.

If they could be measured I believe they should.
 

insider9

Well-known member
CnoEvil said:
insider9 said:
Appreciate the links but my question stands. What does it actually do? What would I have to measure to see a difference?

If you really want some answers, why don't you ring Track Audio and/or Townshend and ask to speak to one of their engineers....I'm sure they would be only too happy to oblige and may be able to give you measurements.

Personally, I want to know - a) Does it work (deteremined by listening) and  b) What does it cost.

I'm then in a position to decide if the improvement is worth the money (for me). If I understand how it works (needs not to be too technical), that is a bonus.
Good idea Cno I might just do this tomorrow.

I'm very much interested in listening too but not really interested in doing AB comparisons of every product that claims to do something which is only sold on a premise of try and if you don't like it return it.

This is madness. It's like buying glasses without prescription. Order a pair and if they don't work for you you can always return them... Why don't they tell me what it does exactly and how it works and I can then decide if I want and can afford it.
 

CnoEvil

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insider9 said:
Good idea Cno I might just do this tomorrow.

I'm very much interested in listening too but not really interested in doing AB comparisons of every product that claims to do something which is only sold on a premise of try and if you don't like it return it.

This is madness. It's like buying glasses without prescription. Order a pair and if they don't work for you you can always return them... Why don't they tell me what it does exactly and how it works and I can then decide if I want and can afford it.

Well, you know where we are if you find out anything interesting.

Edit. Mike Butler would be a good guy to talk to, from Track Audio.
 

insider9

Well-known member
CnoEvil said:
insider9 said:
Good idea Cno I might just do this tomorrow.

I'm very much interested in listening too but not really interested in doing AB comparisons of every product that claims to do something which is only sold on a premise of try and if you don't like it return it.

This is madness. It's like buying glasses without prescription. Order a pair and if they don't work for you you can always return them... Why don't they tell me what it does exactly and how it works and I can then decide if I want and can afford it.

Well, you know where we are if you find out anything interesting.

Edit. Mike Butler would be a good guy to talk to, from Track Audio.
Thanks again Cno. I hope I didn't come across as rude but feel we should expect better as consumers that is all.
 

CnoEvil

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insider9 said:
Thanks again Cno. I hope I didn't come across as rude but feel we should expect better as consumers that is all.

No you didn't.

I know how your mind works....a sort of cognative dissonance between your inner Scientist and your inner Audiophile. *biggrin*
 

Blacksabbath25

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CnoEvil said:
insider9 said:
Thanks again Cno. I hope I didn't come across as rude but feel we should expect better as consumers that is all.

No you didn't.

I know how your mind works....a sort of cognative dissonance between your inner Scientist and your inner Audiophile. *biggrin*
that insider bloke is a very rude person you no *smile*
 

Gazzip

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insider9 said:
In principle so do I. I don't intend this to be a negative post just trying to understand the concept better and whether the improvements could be universal or only applicable in certain situations.

I'm surprised if anything how very little (no) evidence is present relating to this. As a rule of thumb this puts a doubt in my mind.

Legal aspects aside you wouldn't launch a drug without clinical trials... Why launch a product like this without a solid scientific evidence?

This is an opportunity missed in my opinion and one which could stop the debates like this. Whenever I decide to pull the trigger I make any measurement available to test these. It annoys me that this data isn't available from manufacturers. I don't work for them so why should I be doing their work promoting their products (assuming there are measurable differences).

I would imagine that unless conditions are extreme these types of products won’t make a great deal of difference. You do see Townshend Podiums being used quite a bit at the shows, and some of those demo areas are pretty challenging in acoustic terms, so maybe therein lies your answer.

As for the provision of scientific data to back up performance I wouldn’t bother if I was a hifi producer. 1) It is very, very expensive to getting anything accredited. 2) Even If you did provide some evidence its validity would be torn apart across social media, however definitive it was. 3) test conditions are not average listening conditions. 4) I know I can sell my product to Audiophiles without providing evidence that it works.

EDIT: Put another way why would they spend thousands proving their product actually works, when the 3 in 100 who won’t buy it without proof won’t buy it anyway.
 

insider9

Well-known member
CnoEvil said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
CnoEvil said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
that insider bloke is a very rude person you no  *smile*

Yup. He has the audacity to look for explanations and proof.......very unbecoming. 
lol we will buy him a nice white coat 

We really need some evidence that White is the best colour. 
It's the ideal colour. It will match my straight jacket :)
 

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