Sony & Clouds. Somebody share your FACTS.

[ElectroMan]

I suggest he emails his local Sony Centre for an answer (that way he'll have something in 'writing')

Although as Sony don't regard clouding as a problem, it depends on how bad it has to be before a SC will accept that it's faulty. I imagine some SCs are more understanding than others ...

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:maxflinn:It would be nice if (like many others) I could put my doubts to bed,
but maybe all I can do (as has been pointed out) is go in to the Sony
Centre and say I want a TV, but if has clouding I want a refund. If
they accept this - I get one, if not I walk away and forget Sony as a
maker of TVs. Somehow I don't think it is that simple and nobody from a
Sony Centre has come on here and said I can do that..............if the people that work in sonycentres are confident of the quality of their tvs , why cant they accept this understanding with the customer ???????????????????????? mathew ?? sonycentre ??? is that not a fair request ??

Fair request and if Badamz is local to me he is more than welcome to come and see me. However, and particularly where the buyer has reservations, I would strongly urge anyone to buy locally and so, obviously, I may not be able to help in this instance. Also I don't want to appear to be advertising or arranging business through the forum - it is against the rules. As has already been pointed out Sony Centres are run by independent retailers. We run two in Lancashire, but there are other companies running them throughout the country and I would like to think that they are able to offer the same assurances and service as us, particularly since Sony UK have worked very hard this year to ensure consistency across the estate.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm afraid I'm over the other side of the Pennines, but the frank invitation is the most encouraging thing to have been posted on this thread and I give it due respect and thank Mr mathewpiano for his care as I have not given due regard to the issue of potentially pushing a Sony Centre employee or owner into breaking the forum rules.

I cannot get to my local Sony Centre for a while, but I will certainly take on board the comments from mathewpiano and go in with an open mind. I never wanted to suggest they were less than honest about this issue (though some other chains seem to be unaware or in denial). I just want to feel they recognise how important an issue this is for an AV-aware buyer.

I started this thread to be reassured and maybe I am now. Not completely about the backlights, but about the attitude towards my worries.

On another issue that has been touched upon by ElectroMan (buzzzz!!!)- I would also like to point out that if you open and use a TV you are not entitled to return it under the distant selling regulations as an item you don't want, as the retailer cannot then sell it as new. I'm pretty sure that is how it works, so be careful. It is designed as a way to cancel a purchase, not to audition and reject expensive goods (though I would not be against giving it a go as I have said on other threads - if I did encouter clouding or stuck pixels). I just don't want anybody to think it's a way of shopping like clothes from catalogues, where your other half orders 25 items and returns 15! Don't forget that some online retailers charge up to £69 for the return courier (a figure I get from another forum).

Thanks everybody for your comments.

 

[Anonymous]

I have a Sony KDL-26V4500 (only a 26 incher!) and there are no signs of clouding, it really is an excellent TV. I just wanted to say something good about Sony. If you can find one without the dreaded bleed Badamz, thoroughly recommended.

 

[Anonymous]

i think after all thats been said on this thread , its clear that many people want to buy sony tvs , after all they are a hugely popular brand , when someone buys a sony product they assume and demand quality , competition has never been stronger , not just with tvs but all electrical goods

clouding does seem to be more of an issue with sony at the moment with their lcds than it is with their rivals , whfis experiences with this years sets seem to back this up , having said that , last years whfi sets were fine , but there lies the problem , inconsistency , it doesnt matter how many people claim to have never seen flawed sets , or how many claim they have , when someone is parting with their own cash they will always be worrying that they will get a poor quality tv , and with rival brands offering top tvs with seemingly less issues , how many will take a chance ??

i must have seen 30 posts on here recently from people who were going to get a sony , but for concerns over clouding , imho , the only way to tackle this , from sonys point of view , is to at least accept themselves , that people have concerns and understand why , and to make it clear to anyone wanting to buy one of their tvs that a full refund will be given if they find clouding they deem unaceptable( they , being the buyer )

, most people wont find it a problem anyway if they encounter mild clouding , and at least the choosy types (rightly so ) found on sites like this will not see buying a sony as taking a risk , they will either have a great tv they are happy with , a sony , that they wanted to buy , or , however less likely , they will not be happy with the tv and simply return it for a refund , what have sony got to lose ?

 

[matthewpiano]

Badamz:
I'm afraid I'm over the other side of the Pennines, but the frank invitation is the most encouraging thing to have been posted on this thread and I give it due respect and thank Mr mathewpiano for his care as I have not given due regard to the issue of potentially pushing a Sony Centre employee or owner into breaking the forum rules.

I cannot get to my local Sony Centre for a while, but I will certainly take on board the comments from mathewpiano and go in with an open mind. I never wanted to suggest they were less than honest about this issue (though some other chains seem to be unaware or in denial). I just want to feel they recognise how important an issue this is for an AV-aware buyer.

I started this thread to be reassured and maybe I am now. Not completely about the backlights, but about the attitude towards my worries.

On another issue that has been touched upon by ElectroMan (buzzzz!!!)- I would also like to point out that if you open and use a TV you are not entitled to return it under the distant selling regulations as an item you don't want, as the retailer cannot then sell it as new. I'm pretty sure that is how it works, so be careful. It is designed as a way to cancel a purchase, not to audition and reject expensive goods (though I would not be against giving it a go as I have said on other threads - if I did encouter clouding or stuck pixels). I just don't want anybody to think it's a way of shopping like clothes from catalogues, where your other half orders 25 items and returns 15! Don't forget that some online retailers charge up to £69 for the return courier (a figure I get from another forum).

Thanks everybody for your comments.

I guess that puts you in Yorkshire. I would recommend going in to have a very open chat with a store manager at Leeds, Wakefield, Harrogate or the new York Sony Centre. We don't run those ones but we know the company who does and, although I obviously can't speak for them on this issue, they are an excellent company and will, I am sure, provide the level of service you would expect.

Good luck and let us know how it all goes.

 

[laserman16]

Blunny89:I have a Sony KDL-26V4500 (only a 26 incher!) and there are no signs of clouding, it really is an excellent TV. I just wanted to say something good about Sony. If you can find one without the dreaded bleed Badamz, thoroughly recommended.

I have had a 40W2000 for nearly 3 years now and no problem at all.

If I was looking for another TV a Sony would be very high on my list, like at the top.

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Picked up my Sony 40WE5 today..............

....................................but cant take a good look until tomorow. Need to get rid of the old 32 crt! Fork lift due tomorow evening!

tick....tick....tick.........

 

[laserman16]

Fork Lift?................ Only a light CRT then.

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

And its upstairs!

 

[matthewpiano]

We took a 36" LG CRT from a customer's home the other day. Crikey those things were heavy!!

 

[Anonymous]

We have a broken 32inch Loewe Aconda on our kitchen floor. 45Kg never looked so good!.

My poor back.

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Fork lift delayed until tommorow night.........WE5 still in its box (but at least its actually in my house! (I told maxflinn I would buy one eventualy!)

 

[Anonymous]

Nick_Shepherd:Fork lift delayed until tommorow night.........WE5 still in its box (but at least its actually in my house! (I told maxflinn I would buy one eventualy!)[hope you enjoy it nick , please post your findings

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Finally set up the WE5.

First up was SD via sky as I had a standard bx upstairs. Didnt think much of the picture compared to the 32 HD ready Panasonc LMD70 dowstairs. Now, this I think is because the screen is a lot bigger, but I was expecting better.

So, I swapped the standard box for the Sky HD box. SD looked the same, not great, but Sky HD looked fantastic. Pirates of the Carribean, Die Hard 4.0 both looked great (the bits I watched). Much much than the LMD70 downstairs (as you would expect). This did then make SD look poor when i switched back. Not sure if I need different settings to get the best out of SD??? Or is it just the size compared to the 32 I have been used to??

Tonight I watched football on ESPNHD and I must say the motion is excellent and the HD picture fantastic. I maybe able to imrove things further still once i get used to the size and understand what all the settings acually are! (Gamma, white balance etc)

Clouding: There is definately some clouding. I cant notice any at all when watching non dark stuff, football was great as is anything else. Then, tonight after the match Die Hard 4.0 was on SKY HD, it was the scene were Willis first speaks to the arch enemy, when with the computer geek dude, so a dark scene. I can see noticble, erm, light I guess, pathces of it in the top left corner, and some on the right. Now, the top left part is visable even in the black bar accross the top? is that possible? the rest of it I see when the scene is dark. This overspill of light into the bar is not very nice. Unless its a reflection of some sort.....

I will be getting a Bluray player and over the next few weeks will watch a few films to see how noticeable it is and if indeed it improves. If not, I will change it for ANOTHER one.

The set is white, perfect for the room and looks really cool, better looking than the others in my opinion.

I am disapointed, as the first night I didnt really notice any clouding (or is it bleed?), so its only just tonight during a bit of Die Hard 4.0.

Anyway, I will watch more stuff and report back if it gets worse, better, or I stop seeing it.

To summerise:

SD looks poor (any suggestions to help welcome, I may be doing something wrong)

Sky HD is fantastic

Motion is superb

Detail and colour superb

Clouding could be a problem but I will report back in more detail soon......

Bluray to follow

How do I feel? I love the set, want to keep it, will change it if the clouding stays or i cant stop seeing it, but it WILL be for another WE5.

 

[Anonymous]

I've just plugged in my 32W5500 and can see no backlight problems with the out-of-the-box "home" settings. It's a smaller set than you're interested in, but not toooooo far off. Hope that's helpful... or maybe I'm a less discerning viewer than many!

 

[Anonymous]

hi nick , is the sky hd box set to 1080i ? or is the tv doing the upscaling with sd ? can i ask what level the backlight is set to ? also , do you use cinema (movie) mode? warm , noise reduction off ? as these settings look best on a friends sony ...

 

[Anonymous]

I would call anything uneven (ie not the backlight being grey overall as you move off-axis or have it too high) as clouding. Do try a few different settings though (as advised on here) before you get to any conclusions.

I think SD is always going to look pretty poor on a crisp large screen (though our 9664 has made me so aware of how much softer some transmissions are than others (not just channel differences) and some look great scaled by the TV, even though my set is down as a soft scaler).

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

I think the SD is just down to the size, and the fact that the HD image is so much better than the HD image on the 32' set downstairs. When I watch SD on the Panasonic, its about the same image, just lots smaller.

Maxflinn: The TV is switching itself from 576 to 1080i when I change channel, Does this mean the box is upscalling or the TV?

Backlight is on 2. Picture is in Neutral, erm, think I best go up and right it down. Back in a bit!

 

[Anonymous]

im not sure whats doing the upscaling nick , its just that your tv is said to be quite good with sd , i was surprised to read you were not impressed ,if you can find how to set the sky box to 1080i id try it to see if it improves , my plasma looks better when my humax hd box is doing the upscaling , i have that set to 1080i all the time , as i said my friends sony , 46v4000 , looks quite good on cinema , warm n.r. off , with sd , but i guess its all down to personal taste .. mathewpiano might be the man to ask about the best settings , upscaling etc ...

 

[Anonymous]

is the tv is switching from 576 to 1080i when you change from a sd channel to hd ? if so then the tv is upscaling , which might be fine but id have a try with the sky box doing it to see if its better

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Yes thats it. The box is on Automatic. I'll try it fixed n 1080i and see if any change.

I do think it is just the size of the set however.

Clouding update: what I have watched tonight I cant notice any clouding.......will know alot more over the next week...

Settings used at the moment are:

Picture Mode: Standard
Backlight: 2
Contrast: 70
Brightness: 50
Colour: 55
Colour Temp: Neutral
Sharpness:25
Noise Reduction: Low
Mpeg reduction: Low
Moionflow: Standard
Film mode: Auto 1 (What is this anyway?)
Black Corrector: Low (Whats this as well?)
Adv. Cont. Enhancer: Med (whats this then?)
Gamma: plus 1 (anyone?)
Live Colour: Low

 

[Anonymous]

my friend has a samsung lcd ,theres even more settings options on that , what he did was turn off everything he didnt understand , and work from there , it took him a month to finally get the tv to his liking , all part of the fun i guess ...

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Watched the first race in Death Race last night Sky HD. QUALITY picture! Well impressed! Didint notice any clouding though scenes where not that dark. The room was though.

Im assuming that Bluray will be even better so looking forward to getting the player this weekend.

So far, so good i guess!

Put the set on 1080i, no real noticable improvement. Oddley when in this mode, no 4:3 mode was available???

My eyes are adjusting to the size now, and SD does not look as bad as it did whenI first turned it on. I'm not mad, but I guess this can happen.....

 

[rob_981]

Just to add my tuppence worth, I got my 40W4500 a year ago, and never noticed any bleeding or clouding, but I wasn't really looking for any at the time. Then that massive Sony clouding thread (remember that?) appeared on here, so I started looking for it.

The only hint of anything approaching bleeding or clouding appeared when there were no sources on, so the tv was just showing a blank picture. Even that wasn't bad. But when I was actually watching something (even a dark film with lots of blacks) with the curtains closed, I couldn't even see a hint of bleeding - just a cracking picture.

Maybe I was just one of the lucky ones (particularly as I bought it from Empire Direct, so I might struggle to return it), but I love my Sony, and would definitely consider another one if I was buying a new tv.